Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Tonahill——

Mr. RUBY. Well, he handled all the contacts with the FBI.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Tonahill did?

Mr. RUBY. Yes; more or less.

Mr. GRIFFIN. It is your understanding that the work of the trial team

was divided up in such a way that only Tonahill dealt with the FBI, for

the most part?

Mr. RUBY. Yes; as far as I know.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, so you have no personal information, further personal

information, at this time about this psychiatric help which Jack got at

age 10?

Mr. RUBY. No.

Mr. GRIFFIN. When Jack was 10 was he living in the home?

Mr. RUBY. In a foster home, yes; so far as I can understand.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, that would have made you 6, is that right?

Mr. RUBY. Would have made me 6.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Where were you living at age 6?

Mr. RUBY. To tell you the truth, I don’t know but I think I was living

in Chicago, of course, and I don’t remember the name. I think the name

of the people were Speeves, but I don’t know if I went to the farm,

they sent me to a farm for a year, whether I was on a farm at the time

but anyhow we weren’t together those years.

Mr. GRIFFIN. For how many years were you separated from the rest of the

family as a child?

Mr. RUBY. To tell you the truth, I don’t know when it started. I would

say 5, 6 years maybe. I was in three foster homes that I remember all

together. I know I was on a farm, and then at two foster homes that I

can distinctly remember.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember how old you were when you returned to the

home of your family, your mother’s and father’s home?

Mr. RUBY. Well, I think it was in 1928, 1928, so I must have been 13

years old.

Mr. GRIFFIN. And that would have made Jack 17.

Mr. RUBY. Seventeen; I am not sure whether it was—I just don’t

remember. It has got to be a little before that. Because I went to that

Shepherd School for a few years, it had to be there from 1925 to 1928,

but I don’t know exactly.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you living in the home when you went to the Shepherd

School?

Mr. RUBY. You mean was I living with the family?

Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.

Mr. RUBY. Yes.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Jack living with the family at that time?

Mr. RUBY. Yes; that is when we were all brought back together.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Had Jack finished high school at that time?

Mr. RUBY. No, no; Jack didn’t finish high school.

Mr. GRIFFIN. No; but was Jack still attending school when he returned

to the home?

Mr. RUBY. Yes; he was.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you able to recall how long Jack continued to attend

school after you returned to the family, to your family?

Mr. RUBY. No; I know he graduated from that Shepherd School but when I

don’t know. As far as I know he graduated from that school and then he

went to Marshall High School for a while and then he dropped out.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Another thing that you mentioned that we were discussing

in Exhibit 1, that Mr. Dann had assembled some facts and had discussed

Jack’s efforts to show that the Jews are good people by himself helping

gentiles.

Now I want you to go back and comb your recollection of the period

you lived with and worked with Jack for incidents when you can recall

of your own knowledge of Jack helping gentiles, or helping people in

general, let’s not limit it to Jews or gentiles.

Mr. RUBY. Well, even when we were in business, we had that problem

which came up several times, where he would take some of the

merchandise, like our pens that we were using, and salt and pepper

shakers, and almost every day or two he would take a load of samples.

When I asked him he would say, “Well, a nice guy here or there and I

gave him one or two, what difference does it make”, in the meantime he

was giving them out all the time. If anybody wanted one he would just

give it to them. But at that time no remark was made as far as I can

remember as to why he did it.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you be able to give us names of any people who, you

know might have been the beneficiaries of this?

Mr. RUBY. I wouldn’t remember, because I wouldn’t know where, but most

of this took place or a great part of it anyhow in Dallas, and the

names of those I think we could get.

Mr. GRIFFIN. How about as far as you are concerned, of course, you knew

him in Chicago, how about people that you can think of that Jack would

have extended these kindnesses to in Chicago?

Mr. RUBY. I couldn’t remember any names because there was no reason

to remember this, and this goes back so far. It is 20 years at the

earliest.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, you also mentioned that your brother had a great

love for President Kennedy. Can you give us some examples of that?

Mr. RUBY. Well, I didn’t realize it, I mean, because I haven’t been

with him since the Kennedy family and Kennedy himself, to really become

involved in politics because he was in Dallas and I was in Chicago and

in Detroit. However, I know that when they, I think it was the Dallas

Morning News printed that full page, whatever you call that, statement——

Mr. GRIFFIN. The black bordered advertising?

Mr. RUBY. Yes; the black bordered advertising which more or less

definitely insulted the President, he went to the paper and asked them

if they needed the money so bad that they had to print such a horrible

thing even though the other paper had turned it down.

And I think you know he was so upset about seeing that sign on the

roadside about “Impeach Earl Warren” that in the middle of the night he

got his roommate out and got Jerry Crafard, I think his name was, to

take a picture of it.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know why he was upset about it?

Mr. RUBY. Well, he couldn’t see why anything like that could happen.

Here is another great man, and he just couldn’t understand it.

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