Mr. SENATOR. As a matter of fact, I thought McWillie was two names. I
thought his first name was Mac and his last name was Willie. But, of
course, I am not sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know of any friends of Jack who are in jail
presently, in the penitentiary?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know of a friend, a fellow who Jack had a business
association with, who is now in the penitentiary on a sodomy charge?
Mr. SENATOR. I have heard that there is somebody. It might be
Huntsville. It might be. I am not sure. I heard that somebody is down
there. Now who the man is, I don’t know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack talk about him?
Mr. SENATOR. I have heard it mentioned quite some time ago, but who he
is, I don’t know. I don’t know the man. As a matter of fact I don’t
even know the name.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you familiar with the name H. L. Hunt?
Mr. SENATOR. I think everybody is. He is one of the very wealthy men.
Mr. GRIFFIN. In Dallas?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack ever mention having met him?
Mr. SENATOR. Not to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You know H. L. Hunt is politically active, he has a radio
program.
Mr. SENATOR. He is in everything. He is in many, many things, I
understand; oh, well, I didn’t know what all his activities are, but
the name is like, when you hear the name, it is like listening to the
name of the President—I mean that well known, I would say.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you ever seen Jack with any literature that was put
out by H. L. Hunt?
Mr. SENATOR. Not that I know of offhand.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you ever heard Jack mention Lamar Hunt?
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t think so. That is his son, I think. I don’t think
so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me ask you, George, have you ever belonged to any
political organizations?
Mr. SENATOR. Never, never.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I don’t simply mean by that the Democratic Party or the
Republican Party, but any kind of organization which was interested in
some public issue, or something.
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What was your practice with respect to using Jack’s
telephone?
Mr. SENATOR. What was what?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Your practice with respect to using Jack Ruby’s telephone
at home. I take it you used it to make local calls.
Mr. SENATOR. Once in a while; yes. I am not sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you make long-distance calls, telephone calls, from
Jack’s home?
Mr. SENATOR. No; I don’t think I have.
Mr. GRIFFIN. By long distance I mean any toll call, even to Fort Worth.
Mr. SENATOR. Not that I know of. I don’t think I ever have.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever have occasion to call Ralph Paul from Jack’s
telephone?
Mr. SENATOR. I have called him, but I don’t think I have ever called
him from the house that I can remember, mind you. Now I don’t know if
I have ever or not. I can’t quote and say “Yes, I did,” or “Yes, I
didn’t.”
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you able to state whether or not on Friday, November
22, you made any long-distance phone calls from Jack’s telephone?
Mr. SENATOR. On November 22?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes; Friday, November 22.
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t think so. I don’t think I did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about the next day, on Saturday?
Mr. SENATOR. On Saturday?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you make any toll calls on that day?
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t think so. When I say I don’t think so, I don’t
remember if I did or not, but I don’t think so. I don’t want to say
“No” positively or “Yes” positive, because I am not sure. I just don’t
think so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember Saturday morning, November 23, do you
remember whether Jack received any telephone calls that morning?
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you recall, for example, whether Larry Crafard
called that morning?
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t remember if he did or not. As I say, I can’t be
quoted, because I ain’t positive. I can’t say yes or no because I don’t
remember on that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When did you first become aware that Larry Crafard was no
longer in Dallas?
Mr. SENATOR. The following Tuesday.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you find out about that?
Mr. SENATOR. When I went up there I asked Andrew one night, and I
happened to remember that it was Tuesday, one of the things I do
remember, and I said to Andrew, I said, “Andrew, where is Larry?” I
said, “I didn’t see him yesterday either,” or something like that, to
that effect, and he said he had left, and I said, “When did he leave?”
He said he had left Saturday.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did Andrew know that?
Mr. SENATOR. He said—I think now he said he took $8 from the till,
or something to that effect, and I think he left a note that he was
leaving, something like that. These are not positive words, but I think
this is what he said. Something to that effect. And that is the first
time I ever knew.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Andrew have any explanation as to why Larry left?
Mr. SENATOR. No; not that I know of. Incidentally, Andrew was back at
the trial, you know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Larry?
Mr. SENATOR. I mean Larry, because Andrew lives in Dallas.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes; he was at the trial?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; they said he hitchhiked in from Wisconsin or some
place out there. I don’t know where it is. They said he hitchhiked all
the way back for the trial. That is what I heard.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk to him?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; I talked to him when I was sitting on the witness
bench one day.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he tell you why he came back to Dallas?
Mr. SENATOR. No; but he said, he mentioned that he hitchhiked back, but
he didn’t say why he came back or anything of that nature.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he say anything to you about why he left?
Mr. SENATOR. No: he didn’t. I never asked him. As a matter of fact,
I wanted to ask him, but I didn’t. I couldn’t imagine why he left. I
believe he was on the witness stand. What happened, I don’t know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You know we were talking about what you did on Saturday.
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. During the afternoon.
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I have here in front of me a copy of a statement that you
provided the Dallas Police Department. I notice in here that you say
that you left the house around noon on Saturday.
Mr. SENATOR. Something like that; yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And that you had some things to do. Now try to think back
to when you talked with the police department. What things did you have
to do on Saturday?
Mr. SENATOR. I can’t imagine. I don’t know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have anything to do in connection with your
business?
Mr. SENATOR. No; I didn’t work that day.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have any shopping to do other than for the
groceries you bought?
Mr. SENATOR. Well, I did that. I don’t remember if I did that. I just
wonder if I did the laundry. I normally do the laundry on Saturday or
something. But I don’t even recollect if I did that that day or not.
I don’t remember. I think I saw Jim Martin, but to the best of my
recollection anything I did was only minute, just the passing of an
afternoon, or something like that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you have some recollection of having seen Jim Martin on
Saturday?
Mr. SENATOR. I think I had a cocktail. I am not sure, but I think I had
a cocktail with him, at the Burgundy Room. I think I did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would that have been in the afternoon?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; because he is around his office between somewhere
between 12 and 1. I mean that is when he will leave, he won’t leave
before that, and if I remember right—I am not sure on that—but if I
remember I think we may have had a cocktail at the Burgundy Room.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I take it you do begin to have some recollection of having
spent some time at the Burgundy Room?
Mr. SENATOR. I know I was there that day, you know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But I mean Saturday afternoon.
Mr. SENATOR. I think I may have been there for a while, because I know
later on that I met who I mentioned yesterday, Bill Downey, that I was
there, and that we went some other place.