Mr. SENATOR. You have got to fluctuate. It is strictly all guess work.
Mr. HUBERT. That is true, but your attention was directed specifically
to these time lapses, not 5 months ago, but on that very day.
Mr. SENATOR. They were all guess work, they were all supposedly. I had
to give guess works.
Mr. HUBERT. What you are saying now is that the times that you
estimated then were guess works even on that very day as to the times
on that very day? You were examined, weren’t you?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. About 3, 4, or 5 o’clock in the evening?
Mr. SENATOR. And I have always said I would have to guess the time.
Mr. HUBERT. Even as to that day you would have to guess the time?
Mr. SENATOR. That Sunday?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; I always have to guess.
Mr. HUBERT. On Sunday you said you had to guess the time as to the
earlier part of the day?
Mr. SENATOR. I had to guess the time Saturday, I had to guess the time
Sunday when he woke me up. I was only guessing it was around 3 o’clock
in the morning.
Mr. HUBERT. You see the reason why I am bringing that to your attention
is that you stated a moment ago that it is difficult for you to recall
these things after 5 months. But I was inviting your attention to the
fact that your memory had been directed to these intervals of time for
the first time not today, but on that very day, and your answer to me
is that even on that day you were guessing as to the intervals of the
earlier part of the day; is that correct?
Mr. SENATOR. Of times?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Mr. SENATOR. Of times.
Mr. HUBERT. Is that a fair statement?
Mr. SENATOR. If a man doesn’t see a clock, or doesn’t see a watch, what
else can he do? What else can you go by?
Mr. HUBERT. All I am saying is that even on the 24th when the police
and the FBI asked you about these segments of time on that same day,
your statement to us is that even then you were largely guessing?
Mr. SENATOR. I would have to guess the approximate times. If you can
tell me if you don’t see a clock or a watch, how do you tell?
Mr. HUBERT. You might be able to tell by remembering what TV program
was going on at the time. Do you, at any particular time?
Mr. SENATOR. At that time I believe it was something about the late
President, but I don’t just recall what it was, but I believe it was——
Mr. HUBERT. Practically everything that day was. You don’t remember any
specific part?
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t; no. I don’t remember any specific part.
Mr. HUBERT. Did Jack look at it, too? I think you said he did. Did he
make a particular comment as to a particular part then being shown?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. HUBERT. And that was the last time you saw Jack?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me get this straight. Were you awake, did you wake up
on Sunday morning before Jack?
Mr. SENATOR. Sunday morning? Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you have an actual recollection of that, or are you
stating this because it was almost always your practice that you did
wake up before Jack?
Mr. SENATOR. I always—I would say 95 percent of the time I was up
before him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But on this day do you have any recollection?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes; I know. He was asleep because when I got up he was
still in bed.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you got up, as I understand; you made some breakfast
for yourself?
Mr. SENATOR. No; I didn’t.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You did not?
Mr. SENATOR. No. I had coffee. I made coffee.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Coffee?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. In this period between the time you got up and the time
that Jack left the apartment, did you remain in the apartment the
entire period?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes. I was still in my shorts when he left the apartment.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And were you visited by anybody?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. That day?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Or that morning?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know which are the neighbors in that apartment? Let
me start over again? You lived at that South Ewing address on that very
same floor right next to Jack for 11 months, approximately?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Before this Sunday we are talking about. Now, did you know
any of the other people who lived in the apartment?
Mr. SENATOR. Just to say hello, but that is about as far as it went.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you know Sidney Evans?
Mr. SENATOR. Sidney Evans?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t know. If I did, I don’t know them by name.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about a man named Malcolm Slaughter?
Mr. SENATOR. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. They work for the Red Ball Freight Company or Motor
Express, truck drivers apparently.
Mr. SENATOR. Did they live there?
Mr. GRIFFIN. They were supposed to; yes.
Mr. SENATOR. I don’t know. If I did, I don’t know them by name.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you know the people who lived across the hall from you?
Mr. SENATOR. When you say across the hall, it was a =U=. That was just
by the U shape.
Mr. GRIFFIN. A balcony sort of a situation?
Mr. SENATOR. A balcony, but it was a =U=. In other words, when I walked
out of my door, if I kept walking and went over the bannister I would
hit the ground. There was nobody facing me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about on either side?
Mr. SENATOR. Jack was on one side. Then there were some girls on the
other side. The next apartment over there were three girls, something
like that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. That =U= that you are talking about, is it sort of a
stairwell, is that it? The =U= is on one floor of the stairwell?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And there were three suites on the landing that you people
were on? There was the old suite that you occupied, Jack’s suite which
you were living in on the 24th, and the suite occupied by some girls?
Mr. SENATOR. Oh, no; then it went down further. That wasn’t the end of
the strip.
Mr. GRIFFIN. There was a hallway, wasn’t there?
Mr. SENATOR. No; there was a balcony.
Mr. GRIFFIN. A balcony?
Mr. SENATOR. A railing—I mean you are outdoors. There is nothing
concealed. It was just a railing and you are looking outdoors.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And you opened out onto this balcony?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Along this balcony, how many other suites were there along
that balcony?
Mr. SENATOR. Running our way, you have got to transplant in your
mind—in other words, say that I am facing my door right now.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. SENATOR. And the balcony goes =U=-shaped like this. Do you follow
me? In other words, this is all space out here.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Everything in front of you is space?
Mr. SENATOR. Space. Now right past mine, if you turn to the right of
mine, then you walk down another balcony. See, there are balconies on
this side plus balconies this way.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, now along this same level that you were on, and
following the whole set of balconies around on the same level, how many
different——
Mr. SENATOR. The entire level.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes. How many different?
Mr. SENATOR. This is another guesswork. I would say, I would sort of
estimate around a dozen places, a dozen apartments.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now these dozen different apartments, was there a single
stairway that led up to that level, or was there more than one stairway?
Mr. SENATOR. No; there was two stairways. There was one from the front,
there was one level that come up South Ewing. In other words, you drive
around through the back where you park your cars and come up this way.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Another stairway?
Mr. SENATOR. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now on this level how many of those dozen suites there
perhaps—how many of those people did you know?
Mr. SENATOR. I didn’t know any. I never had a conversation with any of
them. Now I said hello to the girls next door, but I never talked to
them, never had a conversation with them. Of course, they were young
girls, not of my category. And the people on the sides, I didn’t know
any of them. In other words, anybody who walked in, you know, you would
say hello whether you knew them or not. But there wasn’t a conversation.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Mr. Hubert, I want to carry this on a little bit from what
happened after Jack left the apartment.
Mr. HUBERT. I promised him that we would stop at 5 because he expressed
the fact that he was somewhat fatigued. He has been up since 2:30. I
think rather than get into another segment we might adjourn for the
day. You were turning to another subject?
Mr. GRIFFIN. I was going to take him up to the time when he left the
apartment.
Mr. HUBERT. That I think would be another subject.