Mr. CRAFARD. From what I knew of him he didn’t strike me as the type of
person that would do so. I later made up my mind that, I come to the
opinion, if he had done it, if he had done it, he must have been insane
when he had done it, before I saw anything on television about it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I take it then that your initial reaction that Jack
couldn’t have done this also reflected what you had seen of him on
Friday and Saturday, that he wasn’t in such—didn’t appear to you to be
in such—a state of mind at that time as being one who wanted to go out
and kill.
Mr. CRAFARD. That is right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And who wasn’t so upset about the killing of the President
that he would be motivated by grief or something like that to do such a
thing.
Mr. CRAFARD. That is right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So you didn’t see him crying or weeping or emotionally,
terribly emotionally, upset about the President?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; I didn’t actually see him crying. His eyes were very
red as if he had been crying the last time I saw him on Friday.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Or is that Saturday morning?
Mr. CRAFARD. Friday. But then again it struck me so hard that when I
finally realized that it really had happened, it struck me so hard,
that I almost cried myself. I believe there was a lot of people
throughout the country, men and women alike, that cried when they heard
about it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But still other than that reaction which you saw on Jack,
there seemed to be nothing about Jack that made him appear any more
grief stricken than any of the rest of you?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Jack the kind of a person who was given to concealing
his emotions?
Mr. CRAFARD. Not so far as I know; no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about concealing his hostility toward other people,
did you ever have any indication that he concealed his hostility toward
other people?
Mr. CRAFARD. No. In fact, I would say it would be the other way.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he have any people that he regarded as enemies in
Dallas?
Mr. CRAFARD. One person that he absolutely didn’t have any liking for
was this one MC from one of the other clubs that come up there once in
a while.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack display his feelings toward that guy?
Mr. CRAFARD. On several occasions, on two or three occasions, he told
the guy he didn’t care to have him around the club, and he just as soon
he didn’t come to the club, and on one occasion he told the man to
leave the club and not to come back again.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But after the man was out of his sight was Jack the kind
of person that he continued to talk about him and complain to the
employees or other people that he was with about somebody who was—about
whom he was annoyed or upset with?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe he went on for a few minutes about it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Jack ever talk to you about his feelings toward his
sister Eva?
Mr. CRAFARD. Not that I can remember; no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So you weren’t aware of any hard feelings between Eva and
Jack?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about his feelings toward Abe Weinstein, the man who
ran the Colony Club, did Jack discuss those feelings?
Mr. CRAFARD. No. From what I can remember any time Jack talked to Mr.
Weinstein they got along fairly good.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So am I correct in understanding the way you describe Jack
when he had somebody that he didn’t like or had some hostility toward,
that he would only display this in the presence of that person in
solving some problem with the individual face to face?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; I believe so.
Mr. HUBERT. Let me get back to the afternoon of the 22d again. What
time did Andrew Armstrong leave, do you remember?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember the exact time; no.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, about?
Mr. CRAFARD. Maybe 3:30, 4 o’clock, maybe a little later.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he leave before Jack left?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe it was after Jack left.
Mr. HUBERT. And you never saw him again really until you saw him in the
courthouse in Dallas?
Mr. CRAFARD. That is right.
Mr. HUBERT. Later that night you were with Jack; weren’t you?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. As a matter of fact, everybody was reading, talking about
Oswald.
Mr. CRAFARD. I am not sure; sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Isn’t it a fact that Ruby had a paper, was reading a
newspaper?
Mr. CRAFARD. He more than likely did, but I don’t remember it, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, you are aware that Oswald had shot the President or
that it was believed that he had?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And you were talking with Ruby about the whole thing,
weren’t you?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; I imagine.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, now, if at that time you knew from Armstrong that
Oswald had been in the club, don’t you think you would have mentioned
to Jack, “Say, you know somebody says Oswald was in the club?”
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; I believe I would have mentioned the fact that I had
been told that Oswald had been in the club.
Mr. HUBERT. Does that help your memory as to when you got this remark?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; it doesn’t. The fact it even makes me more positive
that it was after I left Dallas before I heard about it, because if I
had said something like that to Jack I believe I would have remembered
it.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, I’ll tell you what I suggest you do, since the matter
has only been really brought to your attention in the last hour or
so, you know, I suggest that you give it some more thought and try
to reconcile the different possibilities that exist as to when this
information came to you in light of the questions we have asked you and
the possibilities that have been expressed. Would you do that?
Mr. CRAFARD. I have been doing so right along.
Mr. HUBERT. Let’s go to something else, and we can come back to that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I think it might be well to let it rest for a while. I am
going to hand you, Larry, a Xerox copy of pages out of the notebook,
and I have marked this “Washington, D.C., deposition C. L. Crafard
Exhibit 5203, April 9, 1964,” and I am going to sign my name to it.
Now, I want you to take this Exhibit 5203 and look at those pages and
leaf through it and tell me if you have ever seen that before.
Mr. CRAFARD. There are nine pages in this one. I believe this is a
notebook that Jack carried in his pocket.
(The document referred to was marked Crafard Exhibit No. 5203 for
identification.)
Mr. GRIFFIN. What makes you believe that?
Mr. CRAFARD. I recall seeing a notebook with these tear-out tabs on it
that he carried. I am not sure whether this is the one or not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, this Xerox copy which I have handed you is marked on
the cover page “This is a Robinson Reminder.”
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And then there are what you call tear sheets.
Mr. CRAFARD. That is right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What does the first one say?
Mr. CRAFARD. “Jot it down....”
Mr. GRIFFIN. The second tear sheet, tear-out sheet?
Mr. CRAFARD. “Do it....”
Mr. GRIFFIN. The third?
Mr. CRAFARD. “Tear it out....”
Mr. GRIFFIN. And the fourth?
Mr. CRAFARD. “Live notes only.”
Mr. GRIFFIN. Those are all the tear-out tabs on what appear to be on
the front cover?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recognize the handwriting on that?
Mr. CRAFARD. It is printing, and it is pretty hard to recognize it. I
believe this was Jack’s notebook. It is his handwriting.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You believe it is his handwriting?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; I believe so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. That is not the notebook, is it, that you transferred
entries into from your small Penway spiral notebook?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; it is not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And you believe Jack carried this notebook in his pocket?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; I do.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let us go through these entries and see if you recognize
any of them.
Mr. CRAFARD. There are a few in there I know the names of.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Sandy?
Mr. CRAFARD. That has no meaning to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The second entry is A. F. McKnight.
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Sue Pepper?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe she had been a stripper.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was she employed as a stripper while you were there?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you heard some talk about her?
Mr. CRAFARD. The name sounds like one of the girls I mentioned as a
stripper.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Caroline Walker?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Strike that. Jack Yanover?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Caroline Walker?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Harold Tannebaum?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Margaret Caldwell?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is this Kirk Dial or Kirk Diaz?
Mr. CRAFARD. I would say Dial.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever hear of him?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. James Herbert?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Jules Herbert?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; not that I can remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you read what is written under Jules Herbert?
Mr. CRAFARD. It looks to me like “Sherry care of Lincoln-Houston.” The
name “Sherry,” I believe she was a stripper.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Gigi?
Mr. CRAFARD. She was a stripper.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But not employed there while you were there?
Mr. CRAFARD. But not employed there while I was there. I have heard
mention of the name.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Wally Rack?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; I don’t remember the name.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about the Doctor’s Club, do you know what that was?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; I don’t, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What does that appear to be, Linda Kubox?
Mr. CRAFARD. I would say it looks like K-u-b-o-x to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever hear of that person?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Betty Robbins?
Mr. CRAFARD. Not that I can remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Iwana Birdwell?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Ferris?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Skip Hutcheson?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe there was some, one young fellow that Jack had
staying there before I went there they referred to as Skip. I don’t
know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. Skip Hutcheson you believe is the fellow who sort
of performed the job you did before you came?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long before you came was Hutcheson there?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe it had been 2 or 3 months, I am not sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. It had been 2 or 3 months that had passed between the
time——
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Lynd Chenalt?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about W. O. Chenalt?
Mr. CRAFARD. It doesn’t mean anything to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is this Brenda?
Mr. CRAFARD. It appears to be, yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you know a girl named Brenda there?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; I don’t remember of any.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And is that Augie?
Mr. CRAFARD. It looks like it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you know a fellow or a girl named Augie?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; the name means nothing to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about John, is that Rogers?
Mr. CRAFARD. I would say so. It don’t mean anything to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Shirley Bruce?
Mr. CRAFARD. The name Shirley means nothing to me, but the last name
would have been Little Lynn’s correct name.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, her correct name was Bruce?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I thought her last name was Carlin?
Mr. CRAFARD. Her husband’s name.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Bruce Carlin? Bill Willis?
Mr. CRAFARD. The name sounds familiar, but I can’t put any meaning to
it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he play in the band?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; he was one of the band players.
Mr. GRIFFIN. At the Carousel?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Gino Skaggs?
Mr. CRAFARD. Means nothing to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Dottie Walters?
Mr. CRAFARD. That means nothing to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Barbara Brown?
Mr. CRAFARD. That means nothing to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Tom Palmer?
Mr. CRAFARD. He had been employed at the club. We received some letters
at the club for him. That is all I know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What had been his employment?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was he connected with AGVA?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Sandra Moran?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This is Kathy Kay.
Mr. CRAFARD. She was one of the strippers while I was there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And Andy?
Mr. CRAFARD. That would be Andrew Armstrong, I believe.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Andrea Dalk?
Mr. CRAFARD. The name means nothing.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about this Kathy?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember the name at all.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Lorri Womack?
Mr. CRAFARD. The name doesn’t mean anything.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Margaret?
Mr. CRAFARD. It doesn’t mean anything to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Here is Judy Oberlin?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t recall the name.
Mr. GRIFFIN. George, Sherman, Tex.?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t recall the name.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Betty Kelley?
Mr. CRAFARD. That doesn’t mean anything.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Mike Eberhardt?
Mr. CRAFARD. It doesn’t mean anything.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Russ Knight?
Mr. CRAFARD. Russ Knight—that doesn’t mean anything.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Charles Senator?
Mr. CRAFARD. That doesn’t mean anything.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The House of Loan?
Mr. CRAFARD. It doesn’t mean anything to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Joe, Whitehall 2-5424?
Mr. CRAFARD. It doesn’t mean anything to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Jeannie?
Mr. CRAFARD. Jeanine.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Jeanine.
Mr. CRAFARD. She worked when I first went to work for Jack, she worked
as a cocktail waitress and then she also was an amateur stripper. She
went to work for Jack as a stripper while I was there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What name did she strip under?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe it was under the first name of Jeanine. She used
a French last name. She was of French descent.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Ralph Paul?
Mr. CRAFARD. Ralph Paul.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about American Airlines, and Tuesday, October 9, No.
985?
Mr. CRAFARD. That would mean nothing to me. George Senator is the next
one.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Of course, we have talked about George. Johnny Hayden?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; I don’t remember.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Joy Herrod?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Joe Slayton?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Wally Weston?
Mr. CRAFARD. He was the comedian, I believe. Jack employed him for a
short while.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Campbell-Corrigan, building repair. Did somebody do some
building repairs for him?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t remember that. Corrigan, doesn’t mean anything to
me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Chuck Isaacs?
Mr. CRAFARD. It doesn’t mean anything to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I can’t read this.
Mr. CRAFARD. Davis Kitter—something.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Kitter something or other.
Mr. CRAFARD. It looks like.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But you don’t recognize that?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Earl Wilson?
Mr. CRAFARD. It doesn’t mean anything to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Tony Turner?
Mr. CRAFARD. It doesn’t mean anything to me either.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Tom Busch?
Mr. CRAFARD. No; it doesn’t mean anything to me either.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Joe Cook?
Mr. CRAFARD. It doesn’t mean anything to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Barbara Hickman?
Mr. CRAFARD. It doesn’t mean anything to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Tammi True?
Mr. CRAFARD. Of course, she was one of the strippers who worked for
Jack.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Here is Kay again, but you wouldn’t know what Kay that
would be?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Nicki?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Dolores Meridith?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Wiliford Jackson?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Phil Olian?
Mr. CRAFARD. It doesn’t mean a thing to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Wendy Knight?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Wanda?
Mr. CRAFARD. It doesn’t mean anything to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Janice Anderson?
Mr. CRAFARD. It doesn’t mean anything to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Ann Petta?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. L. H. McIntyre?
Mr. CRAFARD. Nothing.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Jim Brown?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Carlos Camorgo, Mexico City?
Mr. CRAFARD. It doesn’t mean anything. The only thing I believe he had
a stripper, pictures of a stripper, from Mexico or South America, that
he had some papers from her indicating she had been there sometime in
the past.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You believe he employed a stripper from Mexico?
Mr. CRAFARD. She was either from Mexico or South America.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long ago had he employed this stripper?
Mr. CRAFARD. I don’t know how long ago. I saw some pictures with her
name on it, Spanish name.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Billie?
Mr. CRAFARD. That doesn’t mean anything.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Toni Rebel?
Mr. CRAFARD. I believe there was something said about a Toni Rebel who
was a stripper or a girl who went by the name of Toni Rebel on the
stage.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Bill Towney?
Mr. CRAFARD. It doesn’t mean anything.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Affiliated Polygraph? That is a lie detector.
Did you ever hear anything from Jack on that?
Mr. CRAFARD. The only thing I can think of there he had a sign there on
the bar that if anything come up of questionable or anything was stolen
in the club or anything all of the employees would be required to take
a polygraph test. I don’t know whether that was Affiliated or what.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he hang this out where the patrons could see it?
Mr. CRAFARD. It was hung on the front of the cash register.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever hear of anybody being asked to take a
polygraph test?
Mr. CRAFARD. Not that I know of.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Shirley Nole?
Mr. CRAFARD. It doesn’t mean anything to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Margo Larve?
Mr. CRAFARD. It doesn’t mean anything.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Kitty Keel?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Mary Martin?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Gail or Carol?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Ethel A. Piersol?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Gail Thompson?
Mr. CRAFARD. Nothing.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Margie?
Mr. CRAFARD. That would have evidently been Little Marge, the one
waitress.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Peggy Steele?
Mr. CRAFARD. She had been a stripper, she was a stripper who had worked
there at the Carousel Club.
Mr. GRIFFIN. John M. Crawford?
Mr. CRAFARD. It means nothing to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Huntsville State Penitentiary, Huntsville. Did you ever
hear him talk about anybody?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Linda?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Avrum?
Mr. CRAFARD. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Sherry?
Mr. CRAFARD. She had been a stripper or was a stripper that had worked
for Jack.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Henry Segel?
Mr. CRAFARD. He would—Segel as it is used there wouldn’t mean anything
to me. But the address he has got it, Chicago, Ill.