The Need for Continuous Expert Investigation

In the course of our study of this problem it was frequently pointed

out to us that there was a real need for a thorough and continuous

study of this problem by those who from their training, experience, and

occupation were best qualified to advise as to the scope and extent of

the problem, as to its general causes, and as to the practical ways of

dealing with it. From information in the possession of the police and

of the Department of Justice it appeared that the extent of the evil

was in fact not so alarming as one might be induced to believe by a

perusal of the reports in the newspapers; there was, however, plenty of

evidence to suggest that misconduct amongst adolescents was increasing

and that this aspect of the matter was one for grave concern. There was

support for these views in written memoranda submitted by two of our

Magistrates, Mr Sinclair and Mr M. C. Astley. The Secretary for Justice

and Controller-General of Prisons, Mr S. T. Barnett, wrote as follows:

"My suggestion is that, as a first step, the Ministers in charge of

social Departments, e.g., Education, Child Welfare, Justice,

Police, should be requested to direct their Permanent Heads to

concert together and get down to a group study of the problem and

report to Government on the practical measures to meet it.

"Within these Departments are experts who can get down to the facts

and who ought to be able to propound some suggestions to ameliorate

the present unsatisfactory state of affairs. They should, of

course, be authorized, and indeed requested, to enlarge the

departmental group and to take in representatives of principal

welfare organizations."

The suggestions made by Mr Barnett were adopted, and the work

recommended by him is being carried on. The results have not yet

been made available to us.

We think that in matters of this kind fact finding carried out by

experts in a thoroughly scientific manner is fundamental, and in a

later portion of this report we have a specific recommendation to

make on this subject.

Specific Recommendations of Mazengarb Committee Relative

to Child Welfare Administration

In paragraph (4) of the report of the Mazengarb Committee--pages

57 to 60 inclusive--there are a number of comments and suggestions

relating to the Child Welfare Act and its administration. We have

examined these paragraphs very carefully, and we set out below some

excerpts from the report furnished to us by the Director of Education.

Our views are given immediately following the extract from the

opinion expressed by Dr Beeby, which is as follows:

"We have always felt that the spirit of the Child Welfare Act 1925

placed an obligation on us to do preventive work, and there are two

Cabinet decisions, one going back to 1941, which certainly give the

authority. However, we agree that it might be desirable to have the

obligation expressed explicitly in the Act. Indeed, in the draft

Child Welfare Bill prepared by the Division some eighteen months

ago you will find this done in two ways:

"(1) On page 43 of the draft Bill I sent you you will find Part

I devoted to preventive work, and clause 1 begins, 'It shall be

the _duty_ of the Superintendent to take positive action to

prevent children, etc.'.

"(2) On page 1 the definition of 'Child in need of care and

protection' is so widened as to cover every possible type of

preventive case, if read in conjunction with the amendments

passed during last session and with the Cabinet authorities to

spend public funds on such children.

"We do not think it necessary to increase the powers of Child

Welfare Officers for these purposes. To give them more actual

powers over children who have not committed an offence would be to

risk justifiable public objection to interference with the liberty

of the subject and the rights of parents."

_Page 58, paragraph (b)_

In its report the Mazengarb Committee said that the establishment

a few years ago of a Ministry of Social Welfare, and the urgent need

for more preventive work to be done, suggest the possibility of better

administration if "child welfare" were given an independent status

under the Ministry for Social Welfare.

This suggestion was examined by the Director of Education and by

the Superintendent of the Child Welfare Division of the Department

of Education. They reported fully to us, and their views are set out

below in summarized form.

The strongest arguments that were placed before us in support of

the view that child welfare should be a separate and independent

Department were to the following effect:

(1) The Superintendent would--as the head of his own Department--be

the captain of his own ship subject only to the direction of his

own Minister.

(2) The Director of Education has a huge Department of his own to

administer, and he cannot be expected to give to child welfare the

full measure of attention it should have.

(3) The Minister of Education must in the main find his principal

and absorbing interest in the school system, and he could hardly

devote to child welfare the same degree of attention that could be

expected from the Minister of Social Welfare.

(4) There would be times when the Superintendent must find it

burdensome to have to work through a Department with far-reaching

special interests of its own.

(5) The public standing and prestige of the Superintendent of Child

Welfare would be enhanced if he were recognized as the head of his

own independent Department.

The arguments on the other side may be summarized in the following way:

(1) Child welfare by itself would make a relatively small

Department and as such it might tend to become inbred and to

stagnate.

(2) A separate Department of Child Welfare would cost more than at

present because it would not be able to rely upon some of the

staffing and administrative facilities of the Department of

Education.

(3) Some of the institutions now conducted or controlled by child

welfare are really schools and as such they would always need to be

under the real control of the Department of Education.

(4) In actual practice no one could define with precision where the

functions of child welfare could be separated from those of

education.

(5) Over the years child welfare and education have worked out

their own joint policy of administration. They have in fact worked

along in harmony and with effective co-operation, and there

appeared to be no sound reason for disturbing a set-up which was in

fact efficient, economical, and harmonious.

We were completely satisfied that the present arrangement has the full

support of the Director of Education and the Superintendent of Child

Welfare. This view has also the support of the Public Service

Commission. After a study of the evidence that was placed before us we

came to the unanimous conclusion that matters should be left as they

are.

If it was decided by Government that child welfare should remain linked

with the Department of Education it would be advisable that some form

of administrative procedure should be worked out to define the

relations between the Director of Education and the Superintendent of

Child Welfare in so far as their respective approaches to the Minister

of Education and the Minister of Social Welfare are concerned. It was

clear to us that the present set-up is both efficient and harmonious. A

detailed plan for the due performance of the various duties was worked

out and agreed to by all interested parties. As it is a purely

administrative matter, we have not felt that it was necessary to embody

it in this report. Suffice it to say that in our opinion child welfare

should remain a part of the Department of Education, that its

Superintendent should have a right of direct reference to the Minister

of Social Welfare, that the Minister of Social Welfare should be

directly responsible for the administration of the vote applicable to

the Child Welfare Division, and that the administrative plan placed

before us should be adopted and applied unless and until varied by

agreement between the Ministers concerned.

_Page 59, paragraph (c)_

Dr Beeby said:

"It is true that no regulations have ever been gazetted prescribing

the duties of Child Welfare Officers. The provisions for them under

the Act are merely permissive, and we think it would be a

retrograde step to gazette any. The duties of the Superintendent

are adequately defined in the Act, and, as in other parts of the

Public Service, he delegates such of those powers as he thinks fit

to his subordinates. The Division's work has been done on this

basis since the passing of the Act, and we can recall no incident

where the absence of regulations has caused any difficulty. To

define the powers might well be to restrict them and to interfere

with the very preventive work we all desire.

"There should, as the Committee suggests, be some mention of

Honorary Child Welfare Officers in the Act, but their powers,

again, are better given by delegation than by legislation. It is

very desirable that the extent to which use is made of an Honorary

Officer's services be allowed to vary with the requirements of the

district and the ability of the officer."

We agree with the views expressed above by Dr Beeby.

_Page 59, paragraph (d)_

The Mazengarb Committee pointed out that the practice and procedure of

the Children's Court may tend to vary from place to place throughout

the Dominion because the Court was not presided over by its own

specially appointed Magistrate.

On this point the Director of Education said:

"This comment is true. The position has arisen because of the

practical difficulties of having the work carried out by specially

appointed Magistrates. The volume of work involved could justify

the appointment of only a few such Magistrates, and, because of the

geographical spread of the work, they could not handle it

expeditiously."

On this point we have no recommendations to make. We feel that the best

possible results are being secured by the Magistrates having regard to

their numbers and to the conditions under which they work.

_Page 59, paragraph (e)_

The Mazengarb Committee felt that it was a pity that proceedings in the

Children's Court were not conducted in a separate and distinct building.

It should at least be possible, said the report, to hear and determine

the cases in a room other than the ordinary Court room of a Magistrate's

Court. This was rather in the nature of a counsel of perfection. In

less-densely populated districts it would not be easy or economic to

provide separate accommodation of the kind envisaged. In larger and

busier centres it was often necessary to study the convenience of the

Magistrates themselves. The present Committee has no specific

recommendation to make in this connection.

The best that can be done is in fact being done.

_Page 60, paragraph (f)_

On the subject of the publicity to be given to proceedings in the

Children's Court the Mazengarb Committee said:

"There may be reasons why a Children's Court should be open to the

public ... The public has a right to know how child offenders have

been dealt with. The Committee does not recommend any alteration in

the provision prohibiting the publication of the name of any child,

or of any name or particulars likely to lead to identification.

Subject to this, it is desirable that reporters should be allowed

to attend."

With these views we find ourselves to be in complete agreement.

_Page 60, paragraph (g)_

The Mazengarb Committee appeared to hold the view that when children

have been placed under supervision there was no adequate "follow up"

procedure.

The following is Dr Beeby's comment upon this paragraph:

"It is a little difficult to see just what the Committee are

suggesting in this paragraph. If they are proposing that a Child

Welfare Officer be required to report progress to a Magistrate for

his personal information and to enable him to check on the

correctness of his judgment, there can be no possible objection.

When asked for, indeed, this is already done. If, on the other

hand, it is proposed that the Magistrate have continuing authority

over the child, then it would turn the Court into a social work

agency and would run counter to the whole trend in the development

of Children's Court and child welfare work from the beginning of

this century. The Magistrate would be compelled to take on

responsibilities for which he is not trained, and Child Welfare

Officers would tend to become merely junior probation officers

attached to the Court. One of the advantages of the present system

is that the Superintendent, being the final authority, can ensure

uniform standards of case work throughout New Zealand. If it were

left to each individual Magistrate to decide exactly what should be

done with children, it is certain that wide variations in

principles and procedures would occur. Experience has shown, for

example, that some Magistrates, with no first-hand knowledge of our

institutions, would send to them children for whom they are not

established to cater.

"With regard to the Committee's suggestion that there 'should be

some person or body apart from the departmental officers to whom a

child could turn for help ...', we would agree that something like

the Visiting Justice system of the Justice Department might apply

to our institutions as a guarantee to the public and as a

protection to both children and officers. However, to extend such a

system to children boarded out in private homes would be to ask for

endless trouble. People would be loath to accept State wards into

their homes if it laid them open to official visits from laymen

whose sole function was to hear complaints from the children. The

visits of Child Welfare Officers and of Inspectors of the Division

must, we feel, be accepted as the main guarantee to the public of

fair treatment."

Without expressing any decided opinion, the Committee felt that

what the Director of Education has to say is worthy of consideration

by Government.

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