CHAPTER V. A CONVERSATION BETWEEN SOCRATES AND PERICLES CONCERNING THE

THEN PRESENT STATE OF THE REPUBLIC OF ATHENS, IN WHICH SOCRATES LAYS DOWN

A METHOD BY WHICH THE ATHENIANS MAY RECOVER THEIR ANCIENT LUSTRE AND

REPUTATION.

Socrates one day being in company with Pericles, the son of the great

Pericles, introduced the following discourse:--

"I hope that when you command the army the Republic will be more

successful and gain more glory in their wars than formerly." "I should

be glad of it," answered Pericles, "but I see little likelihood of it."

"We may bring this matter to the test," said Socrates. "Is it not true

that the Boeotians are not more numerous than the Athenians?" "I know

it." "Nor are they either braver or stronger?" "True, they are not."

"Do you believe that they agree better among themselves?" "Quite the

contrary," said Pericles; "for there is a great misunderstanding between

most of the Boeotians and the Thebans, because of the great hardships the

latter put upon the former, and we have nothing of this among us." "But

the Boeotians," replied Socrates, "are wonderfully ambitions and

obliging; and these are the qualities that naturally push men on to

expose themselves for the sake of glory and of their country." "The

Athenians," answered Pericles, "come not short of them in either of those

qualities." "It is true," replied Socrates, "that there is no nation

whose ancestors have done braver actions, and in greater number, than

those of the Athenians. And these domestic examples excite us to

courage, and create in us a true love of virtue and bravery."

"Notwithstanding all this," continued Pericles, "you see that after the

defeat of Tolmides at Lebadia, where we lost a thousand men, and after

another misfortune that happened to Hippocrates before Delium, the

greatness of the Athenians is sunk so low, and the courage of the

Boeotians so increased, that they, who even in their own country durst

not look the Athenians in the face without the assistance of the

Lacedemonians and of the other States of the Peloponnesus, now threaten

Attica with their single forces. And that the Athenians, who before

ravaged Boeotia when it was not defended by foreign troops, begin to

fear, in their turn, that the Boeotians will put Attica to fire and

sword." "In my opinion," answered Socrates, "a governor ought to be well

pleased to find a republic in such a condition, for fear makes a people

more careful, more obedient, and more submissive. Whereas a too great

security is attended with carelessness, luxury, and disobedience. This

is plainly seen in men who are at sea. When they fear not anything,

there is nothing in the ship but confusion and disorder; but when they

apprehend that they shall be attacked by pirates, or that a tempest is

hanging over their head, they not only do whatever they are commanded,

but even observe a profound silence, waiting the order of their captain,

and are as decent and orderly in their behaviour and motions as those who

dance at a public entertainment."

"We shall yield, then," replied Pericles, "that the Athenians are

obedient. But how shall we do to create in them an emulation to imitate

the virtue of their ancestors to equal their reputation and to restore

the happiness of their age in this present one?" "If we would have

them," answered Socrates, "make themselves masters of an estate, which is

in the possession of others, we need only tell them that it is descended

to them from their forefathers, and they will immediately be for having

it again. If we would encourage them to take the first rank among the

virtuous, we must persuade them that it is their due from all antiquity,

and that if they will take care to preserve to themselves this advantage

they will infallibly likewise surpass others in power. We must

frequently represent to them that the most ancient of their predecessors

were highly esteemed on account of their great virtue." "You would be

understood," said Pericles, "to speak of the contention of two of the

divinities concerning the patronage of the city of Athens, of which the

citizens, in the days of Cecrops, were chosen arbitrators on account of

their virtue." "You are in the right," said Socrates; "but I would have

them be put in mind likewise of the birth and nourishment of Erictheus,

and of the war that was in his time against the neighbouring nations; as

also of that which was made in favour of the descendants of Hercules

against the people of Peloponnesus, and, in short, of all the other wars

that were in the days of Theseus, in which our ancestors were always

reputed the most valiant men of their age. If you think fit, they may

likewise be told what the descendants of these ancients and our

predecessors of the last age have done. They may be represented to them

as resisting sometimes with their own forces only the nations whom all

Asia obeyed, whose dominions extended into Europe as far as Macedonia,

and who had inherited a potent empire from their fathers, together with

formidable forces, and who were already renowned for many great exploits.

Sometimes you must relate to them the victories they gained by sea and

land in conjunction with the Lacedemonians, who are likewise reputed a

very brave people. They should be told also that great commotions being

arisen among the Greeks, and the most part of them having changed their

places of abode, the Athenians always continued in their country, that

they have been chosen by several people to arbitrate their differences,

and that the oppressed have always fled to them for protection." "When I

reflect on all this," said Pericles, "I am surprised to see the Republic

so much fallen off from what it was." "In my opinion," replied Socrates,

"she has behaved herself like those persons who, for having too great

advantage over their rivals, begin to neglect themselves, and grow in the

end pusillanimous, for after the Athenians saw themselves raised above

the other Greeks they indulged themselves in indolence, and became at

length degenerate."

"What course must they take now," said Pericles, "to regain the lustre of

their ancient virtue?" "They need only call to mind," replied Socrates,

"what were the exercises and the discipline of their ancestors, and if,

like them, they apply themselves to those practices, they will no doubt

arrive at their perfection; or if they will not govern themselves by that

example, let them imitate the nations that are now uppermost; let them

observe the same conduct, follow the same customs, and be assured they

will equal, if not surpass them, if they labour to do so." "You seem to

be of opinion, my dear Socrates, that virtue is much estranged from our

Republic? And, indeed, when will the Athenians respect old age as they

of Sparta do, since they begin, even by their own fathers, to deride men

advanced in years? When, too, will they use themselves to the manly

exercises of that Republic, since they not only neglect the good

disposition and activity of body, but laugh at those who endeavour to

acquire them? When will they be obedient to the magistrates, they who

make it a glory to despise them? When will they be in perfect unity,

they who, instead of assisting, daily prejudice one another, and who envy

one another more than they do all the rest of mankind? They are every

day quarrelling in the public and private assemblies; they are every day

suing one another, and had rather find their own advantage in the ruin of

their neighbours than get an honest gain by reciprocally assisting one

another. The magistrates mind not the Government of the Republic any

farther than their own interests are concerned, and, therefore, they use

their utmost endeavours to be in office and authority; and for this

reason in the administration of the State there is so much ignorance and

malice, and such animosities, and so many different parties among private

persons. And I much fear that this mischief will get such a head that at

length there will be no remedy against it, and that the Republic will

sink under the weight of its misfortunes."

"Fear it not," said Socrates, "and do not believe that the Athenians

labour under an incurable disease. Do you not observe how skilful and

obedient they are at sea, that in the combats for prizes they exactly

obey the orders of those that preside there, and in the comedies how

readily they comply with what they are bid to do?" "I see it well,"

answered Pericles, "and cannot but wonder that they are so ready to obey

in these and the like occasions, and that the military men, who ought to

be the chosen part of the citizens, are so mutinous and refractory." "And

what say you," pursued Socrates, "to the Senate of the Areopagus; are

they not all of them persons of great worth? Do you know any judges who

discharge their office with more integrity, and who more exactly observe

the laws, who more faithfully render justice to private men, and who more

worthily acquit themselves of all manner of affairs?" "I blame them

not," said Pericles. "Despair not, then, of the Athenians," added

Socrates, "as of an untractable people." "But it is in war," replied

Pericles, "that much discipline is required, and much modesty and

obedience, and these things the Athenians wholly want in that occasion."

"Perhaps, too," continued Socrates, "they who command them know little of

their own duty. Do you not take notice that no man undertakes to govern

a company of musicians, or of comedians, or of dancers, or of wrestlers,

unless he be capable of it; and that all who take such employments upon

them can give an account where they have learnt the exercises of which

they are become masters? Our misfortunes in war, then, I very much

apprehend, must be owing in a great measure to the bad education of our

generals.

"I know very well that you are not of this number, and that you have

improved to your advantage the time you have spent in learning the art of

war and other laudable exercises. I imagine, likewise, that in the

memoirs of your father, the great Pericles, you have found many rare

stratagems, and that by your diligence you have also collected up and

down a great number of others. Nor do I doubt but that you frequently

meditate on these matters, that nothing may be wanting in you that may be

of use to a general. Insomuch, that if you find yourself in doubt of

anything, you immediately have recourse to those that know it, and spare

neither presents nor civilities to incline them to assist you and to

teach you the things of which you are ignorant." "Alas! Socrates," said

Pericles, "you flatter me, and flatter me for many things that, I am

afraid, I am deficient in; but by that you instruct me in my duty."

Upon this Socrates, interrupting him--"I will," said he, "give you an

advice. Have you not observed that in the high mountains, which are the

frontiers of Attica, and divide it from Boeotia, the roads through which

you must of necessity pass to go from one country to the other are very

rough and narrow?" "Yes, I have." "Tell me, besides, have you never

heard say that the Mysians and the Pisidians, who are in possession of

advantageous places where they dwell in the dominions of the King of

Persia, arm themselves lightly, and make continual inroads upon the

neighbouring provinces, and by that means are very troublesome to that

king's subjects, and preserve their own liberty?" "I have heard so." "It

is probable, too," continued Socrates, "that if the Athenians would

possess themselves of the mountains that are between Boeotia and Attica,

and if they took care to send thither some young men with arms proper for

inroaders, our enemies would be much prejudiced by them, and all those

mountains would be as a great rampart to cover our country from their

insults." "I believe what you say," answered Pericles, "and take all the

advices you have given me to be very good." "If you think them so,"

replied Socrates, "endeavour, my friend, to put them in practice; for if

any of them succeed you will receive the honour, and the Republic the

profit; and even though they should not meet with success the Republic

would have no inconvenience to apprehend, nor you the least dishonour."

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