DISCUSSION

DR. JOHN T. MACCURDY, New York: I have been very much interested in this

paper by Dr. Emerson and the part that has interested me most in it has been

the therapeutic side. I cannot feel, however, that it adds a great deal to

our knowledge of epilepsy, that is, of idiopathic epilepsy. That, of course,

is a tremendously difficult problem to tackle. If we are to regard it as a

psychosis then we expect it to show other reactions, just as dementia

praecox shows manic depressive symptoms. If we are to find out what the

epileptic reaction is, we must study it in those who are typically epileptic

and nothing else. Or else we may examine those with transitional states

grading over into hysteria, for example, excluding from our formulations

everything in them that is hysteric. This last case which Dr. Emerson

brought forward seemed to me to represent what is essentially an hysteric

reaction. The convulsive movements this man went through were symbolic. It

is difficult to regard these movements in epilepsy as symbolic because in

the true epileptic there is as typical unconsciousness as we know. How can

anything going on in almost absolute unconsciousness represent something

symbolic to the individual? This is possible however, when the condition

grades off from the hysteric side into the epileptic. The fundamental

epileptic phenomenon is the disturbance of consciousness, and that is what

must be explained.

DR. TOM A. WILLIAMS, Washington, D. C.: I don't know that we can say that

the fundamental differentiation of epilepsy is the unconsciousness. That is

a psychological division. The paper did not give any differential why they

were regarded as epileptics at all. There was no description of the

convulsion, except in so far as this formed the hysteric form of convulsion,

so I don't think we are in a position to discuss the paper without more

clear data of these instances.

DR. WALTER B. SWIFT, Boston: I was interested in hearing about the case of

stammering. That will be explained in my own paper and I have also run up

against several who have done the same. I should like to ask Dr. Emerson if

he considers stammering as an expression of an orgasm.

DR. L. E. EMERSON, Boston: Dr. MacCurdy well remarked that this adds

nothing to the understanding of epilepsy. In a certain sense this is true.

I do not feel that I could add anything to a deeper understanding of

epilepsy. The whole development of psycho-analytic theory, up to a certain

point, has been based on the actual recovery of patients, if you do not like

the use of the word cure, from particular symptoms. Then this has been

generalized. Now that has opened an enormous field for ratiocination.

Therefore, I am not at all sure that these conceptions will really apply to

essential epilepsies or to the real epilepsies. I do not know how far our

conceptions which originate in the therapeutic situation will apply to the

situation which appears to be absolutely beyond therapeutics. In regard to

what Dr. White said of starting from the known and going through

transitional stages to the unknown, you do get insight and it may be that

the condition as described in this broad way by Clark and by Stekel and

others may be true, but I am not perfectly sure. I am very grateful for Dr.

Allen's approval of this way of putting things because perhaps it is a

defence reaction on my own part that occasionally I feel it necessary to

report things I have seen with my own eyes and really experienced, instead

of following my natural tendency to go off into vague philosophizing.

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