The first three clauses of the second section read.
Mr. Goudy. Mr. Chairman, this clause of taxation will give an
advantage to some States over others. It will be oppressive to the
Southern States. Taxes are equal to our representation. To augment
our taxes and increase our burthens, our negroes are to be
represented. If a State has fifty thousand negroes, she is to send one
representative for them. I wish not to be represented with negroes,
especially if it increases my burthens.
Mr. Davie. Mr. Chairman, I will endeavor to obviate what the
gentleman last up has said. I wonder to see gentlemen so precipitate
and hasty on the subject of such awful importance. It ought to be
considered, that _some_ of _us_ are slow of apprehension, not having
those quick conceptions, and luminous understandings, of which other
gentlemen may be possessed. The gentleman "does not wish to be
represented with negroes." This, sir, is an unhappy species of
population, but we cannot at present alter their situation. The
Eastern States had great jealousies on this subject. They insisted
that their cows and horses were equally entitled to representation;
that the one was property as well as the other. It became our duty on
the other hand, to acquire as much weight as possible in the
legislation of the Union; and as the Northern States were more
populous in whites, this only could be done by insisting that a
certain proportion of our slaves should make a part of the computed
population. It was attempted to form a rule of representation from a
compound ratio of wealth and population; but, on consideration, it was
found impracticable to determine the comparative value of lands, and
other property, in so extensive a territory, with any degree of
accuracy; and population alone was adopted as the only practicable
rule or criterion of representation. It was urged by the deputies of
the Eastern States, that a representation of two-fifths would be of
little utility, and that their entire representation would be unequal
and burthensome. That in a time of war, slaves rendered a country more
vulnerable, while its defence devolved upon its _free_ inhabitants. On
the other hand, we insisted, that in time of peace they contributed by
their labor to the general wealth as well as other members of the
community. That as rational beings they had a right of representation,
and in some instances might be highly useful in war. On these
principles, the Eastern States gave the matter up, and consented to
the regulation as it has been read. I hope these reasons will appear
satisfactory. It is the same rule or principle which was proposed some
years ago by Congress, and assented to by twelve of the States. It may
wound the delicacy of the gentleman from Guilford, [Mr. Goudy,] but I
hope he will endeavor to accommodate his feelings to the interests and
circumstances of his country.
Mr. James Galloway said, that he did not object to the representation
of negroes, so much as he did to the fewness of the number of
representatives. He was surprised how we came to have but five,
including those intended to represent negroes. That in his humble
opinion North Carolina was entitled to that number independent of the
negroes.
First clause of the 9th section read.
Mr. J. M'Dowall wished to hear the reasons of this restriction.
Mr. Spaight answered that there was a contest between the Northern and
Southern States--that the Southern States, whose principal support
depended on the labor of slaves, would not consent to the desire of
the Northern States to exclude the importation of slaves absolutely.
That South Carolina and Georgia insisted on this clause, as they were
now in want of hands to cultivate their lands: That in the course of
twenty years they would be fully supplied: That the trade would be
abolished then, and that in the mean time some tax or duty might be
laid on.
Mr. M'Dowall replied, that the explanation was just such as he
expected, and by no means satisfactory to him and that he looked upon
it as a very objectionable part of the system.
Mr. Iredell. Mr. Chairman, I rise to express sentiments similar to
those of the gentleman from Craven. For my part, were it practicable
to put an end to the importation of slaves immediately, it would give
me the greatest pleasure, for it certainly is a trade utterly
inconsistent with the rights of humanity, and under which great
cruelties have been exercised. When the entire abolition of slavery
takes place, it will be an event which must be pleasing to every
generous mind, and every friend of human nature; but we often wish for
things which are not attainable. It was the wish of a great majority
of the Convention to put an end to the trade immediately, but the
States of South Carolina and Georgia would not agree to it. Consider
then what would be the difference between our present situation in
this respect, if we do not agree to the Constitution, and what it will
be if we do agree to it. If we do not agree to it, do we remedy the
evil? No, sir, we do not; for if the constitution be not adopted, it
will be in the power of every State to continue it forever. They may
or may not abolish it at their discretion. But if we adopt the
constitution, the trade must cease after twenty years, if congress
declare so, whether particular States please so or not: surely, then,
we gain by it. This was the utmost that could be obtained. I heartily
wish more could have been done. But as it is, this government is nobly
distinguished above others by that very provision. Where is there
another country in which such a restriction prevails? We, therefore,
sir, set an example of humanity by providing for the abolition of this
inhuman traffic, though at a distant period. I hope, therefore, that
this part of the constitution will not be condemned because it has not
stipulated for what it was impracticable to obtain.
Mr. Spaight further explained the clause. That the limitation of this
trade to the term of twenty years, was a compromise between the
Eastern States and the Southern States. South Carolina and Georgia
wished to extend the term. The Eastern States insisted on the entire
abolition of the trade. That the State of North Carolina had not
thought proper to pass any law prohibiting the importation of slaves,
and therefore its delegation in the convention did not think
themselves authorized to contend for an immediate prohibition of it.
Mr. Iredell added to what he had said before, that the States of
Georgia and South Carolina had lost a great many slaves during the
war, and that they wished to supply the loss.
Mr. Galloway. Mr. Chairman, the explanation given to this clause does
not satisfy my mind. I wish to see this abominable trade put an end to.
But in case it be thought proper to continue this abominable traffic
for twenty years, yet I do not wish to see the tax on the importation
extended to all persons whatsoever. Our situation is different from
the people to the North. We want citizens; they do not. Instead of
laying a tax, we ought to give a bounty, to encourage foreigners to
come among us. With respect to the abolition of slavery, it requires
the utmost consideration. The property of the Southern States consists
principally of slaves. If they mean to do away slavery altogether,
this property will be destroyed. I apprehend it means to bring forward
manumission. If we must manumit our slaves, what country shall we send
them to? It is impossible for us to be happy if, after manumission,
they are to stay among us.
Mr. Iredell. Mr. Chairman, the worthy gentleman, I believe, has
misunderstood this clause, which runs in the following words: "The
migration or importation of such persons as any of the States now
existing, shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the
Congress prior to the year 1808, but a tax or duty may be imposed on
_such importation_, not exceeding ten dollars for each person."
Now, sir, observe that the Eastern States, who long ago have abolished
slavery, did not approve of the expression _slaves_; they therefore
used another that answered the same purpose. The committee will
observe the distinction between the two words migration and
importation. The first part of the clause will extend to persons who
come into the country as free people, or are brought as slaves, but
the last part extends to slaves only. The word _migration_ refers to
free persons; but the word _importation_ refers to slaves, because
free people cannot be said to be imported. The tax, therefore, is only
to be laid on slaves who are imported, and not on free persons who
migrate. I further beg leave to say, that this gentleman is mistaken
in another thing. He seems to say that this extends to the abolition
of slavery. Is there anything in this constitution which says that
Congress shall have it in their power to abolish the slavery of those
slaves who are now in the country? Is it not the plain meaning of it,
that after twenty years they may prevent the future importation of
slaves? It does not extend to those now in the country. There is
another circumstance to be observed. There is no authority vested in
congress to restrain the States in the interval of twenty years, from
doing what they please. If they wish to inhibit such importation, they
may do so. Our next assembly may put an entire end to the importation
of slaves.
Article fourth. The first section and two first clauses of the second
section read without observation.