Mrs. CHEEK. I know there were some people there, either from, they
might have been Mexico or Cuban.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did they rent the same suite?
Mrs. CHEEK. This is not an apartment. This is 5212 Gaston. This is the
rooming house.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did each of them have a separate room?
Mrs. CHEEK. No, they both stayed in the same room. In, I think, the
front part.
Mr. GRIFFIN. In the front part of the house?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did they stay?
Mrs. CHEEK. I don’t remember. Just take my records and look at them.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I take it when you went through these records with the
agents, did you see----
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes, I probably saw those names and I recognized it by that
or something. I don’t remember just exactly how I remembered right at
that time, because I was trying to remember everything I could all the
way back to try to tell them everything I knew.
Mr. GRIFFIN. These two fellows, were they fat or thin?
Mrs. CHEEK. They were small, I think.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did they appear to be men in their 20’s or 30’s or 40’s or
50’s?
How old would you say they were?
Mrs. CHEEK. The two boys that were in the front room at 5212 Gaston
were younger fellows.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Under 25, would you say?
Mrs. CHEEK. I don’t know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did they speak English?
Mrs. CHEEK. I don’t know. I guess they speak it very well, enough to
get in. I never rented to anyone that couldn’t speak English.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did they speak with a noticeable accent?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did they appear to have a job of any sort?
Mrs. CHEEK. I don’t remember. I am just trying to remember all, you
know. That is a long time back, and renting to so many people, you
don’t pay that much attention to them.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How often did you have occasion to talk with them?
Mrs. CHEEK. I never do talk to people unless they talk to me about
something about the business, or the room, or something like that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. These two fellows, do you recall ever talking to them on
any occasion?
Mrs. CHEEK. I can’t remember holding a conversation with them, no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You indicated that your son was present when the Agents
Barry and Kelley interviewed you. Did he have some recollection of
these two Cubans?
Mrs. CHEEK. John might have. I think John was there. I believe he was,
or Irwin.
Mr. GRIFFIN. These are both your sons?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is their last name Cheek or Cheeks?
Mrs. CHEEK. Cheek.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How old is John?
Mrs. CHEEK. He is 18.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And how about Irwin?
Mrs. CHEEK. Thirteen.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now you also indicated in your first report that you had
been acquainted with Jack Ruby since 1948. What makes you place that
date?
Mrs. CHEEK. They asked me--when, 1948?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes; that is what they reported here.
Mrs. CHEEK. I didn’t say 1948. I bought the house in 1948, and it might
have been 1956. They have that 1956 down there of me buying 5212 Gaston.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mrs. CHEEK. I didn’t meet Jack Ruby in 1948. 1948 is when I bought
5212. They have the dates mixed up there.
And then 1956 or 1957, I might have went down there to the club, but I
don’t think I knew him in 1948, at all.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This report also indicates that you formerly operated
night clubs in Dallas?
Mrs. CHEEK. No; I told them that I went down and operated a club, just
managed a club for Frank and Virginia Nick on Browder Street.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What was the name of that night club?
Mrs. CHEEK. Pat Morgan had the club at that time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What was the name of the club?
Mrs. CHEEK. Club Royal is what Virginia and Frank Nick named it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. R-o-y-a-l?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was that the name of the club when you were employed there?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When was that?
Mrs. CHEEK. February of 1963, I believe it was, this past year.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But prior to 1963, had you ever been connected with the
night club business in any way?
Mrs. CHEEK. No; nothing, only my husband was a musician. He played
nightclubs and I went there with him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he play in Dallas nightclubs?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was this Mr. Cheek?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you a performer or anything?
Mrs. CHEEK. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long was he a musician in Dallas? For what period of
time?
Mrs. CHEEK. He was a musician before I married him. He just had it as
a hobby. He worked at National Cash Register, and played on Friday and
Saturday nights to pick up extra money.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see; you came to Dallas, you said, 18 years ago? 1946?
Mrs. CHEEK. 1947.
Mr. GRIFFIN. 1947. Were you married to Mr. Cheek at that time?
Mrs. CHEEK. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When did you marry Mr. Cheek?
Mrs. CHEEK. 1947.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right, from 1947 to 1955, did Mr. Cheek play these
weekend jobs in nightclubs?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was he employed regularly on weekends?
Mrs. CHEEK. He played with Harry Traveler’s Band, and I don’t remember
the other names of the bands he played with, but he might have set in
on some. You would have to ask him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he ever play in any of Jack Ruby’s clubs?
Mrs. CHEEK. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So your connection with the night club business prior to
1963, was solely through your husband’s association as a musician and
your going to the night clubs with him?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you used to go regularly on the nights that he played?
Mrs. CHEEK. Most every Saturday night or Friday with him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, you indicated here also that on the last occasion
that you saw Jack Ruby at the Carousel Club, that you spent several
hours discussing this investment with him?
Mrs. CHEEK. I think I put down there two or three hours. About 2 until
maybe 4:30, something like that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can’t you give us any more idea about what he had for this
club, what kind of club it was going to be? You said you talked with
the interior decorator?
Mrs. CHEEK. I let him talk.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did he say?
Mrs. CHEEK. I don’t remember all they said.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can’t you tell us some more about what he said? You were
there for a couple of hours. He must have described----
Mrs. CHEEK. He talked to other people while I was there. He would go in
and out of the office, and he would indicate to me he was talking long
distance and talking to other people that come in his club. And then he
would come back and talk some more.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he make any long distance telephone calls while you
were there?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes; but I don’t know when he made them.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he hold these conversations in his office?
Mrs. CHEEK. He was in the office, and then in the club, and then he
came a few minutes, and then I came on home.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Your best recollection is, it was from about 2 o’clock in
the afternoon until about sometime after 4:00 that afternoon?
Mrs. CHEEK. I think so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you happen to place the time? Anything significant?
Mrs. CHEEK. I think it was; I remember the time I was down there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. It was a 2 o’clock appointment?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes. Around 2:00 or 2:30.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember how many long distance telephone calls he
made?
Mrs. CHEEK. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he talk to you about any of the business enterprises
that he had?
Mrs. CHEEK. He told me about other businesses he had and how many he
had been in, but I don’t remember exactly. I just listened to him and
I wasn’t interested really in putting in $6,000 and him putting in
$1,000, and I was just listening to the man talk and getting his ideas
on a lot of things that he had in mind for clubs that he was talking
about, and I didn’t I wasn’t really interested in what he did in the
past or what clubs he was connected with. That is why I don’t remember,
you know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You also indicated that you thought at first when you
saw Lee Harvey Oswald’s photograph on television, that you might have
rented to him. What made you think that?
Mrs. CHEEK. I noticed a lot of people you can walk down the street or
be introduced to a person and think I have met them before. Well, I was
trying to remember back if I had ever seen the man before in Dallas.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did you think you might have seen him?
Mrs. CHEEK. I didn’t know. Just like have you ever, you know, met a
person and thought you had seen them before?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mrs. CHEEK. Well, that is the way I thought I was trying to remember
where I had seen him before, and probably I had seen him so many times
on TV that day until I thought maybe I had rented to him, and I thought
if I had, I would look it up and turn it in.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me ask you this. Where were you when you first heard
that President Kennedy had been shot?
Mrs. CHEEK. In my apartment at 3914 Swiss, Apartment 2.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you do that day?
Mrs. CHEEK. What did I do that day?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, Ma’am.
Mrs. CHEEK. I was waiting for the plumber to fix some plumbing there at
the apartment house. That is where I was living. I don’t remember all
the things I did that day.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you remain there all day and watch TV all day?
Mrs. CHEEK. I just turned it on when the plumber wanted--he said the
President is in the city and he said, “Let’s look at TV a little,” he
said, “I haven’t listened to any of the news.”
So his name is Louis Zmolik and I turned on the TV.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you continue to watch television the rest of the day,
or did you go back to your business?
Mrs. CHEEK. Watched it off and on. I was answering the phone, talking
on the phone.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember if there were business calls that you had
or social calls, or talking with people about the assassination, or
what?
Mrs. CHEEK. Well, they might have been business calls, some of them and
some I was talking about how terrible it was the President had been
killed, what an awful thing.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did your sister call you that day?
Mrs. CHEEK. No; I don’t think she did. I didn’t learn that, I think,
until someone else called me to watch TV, that she had been on TV. I
didn’t see her on TV.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did your sister appear? Was she interviewed on Television?
Mrs. CHEEK. Someone said that she was, and my sister in Tyler said she
was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see her interviewed on TV?
Mrs. CHEEK. No; I didn’t.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What day was that? Was that on Friday, the day the
President was killed, or was it on Saturday?
Mrs. CHEEK. The President, I think, was killed wasn’t he, on the 22d of
November, Washington’s Birthday? I remembered that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The 22d of February is Washington’s birthday.
Mrs. CHEEK. I mean November.
Mr. GRIFFIN. It was Friday, the 22d.
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was that the day that Mrs. Roberts appeared on television,
or was it a later date?
Mrs. CHEEK. I don’t know. I never did see her on TV.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about the next day on Saturday?
Mrs. CHEEK. I got the newspaper and saw the next morning, I think,
where her picture was in the paper, but I didn’t talk to her
until--yes, she called me, my sister called me on Swiss Avenue. I have
a sister living on Swiss. She called me and told me, I think, that
Earlene was on TV, and we talked the next morning about it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now on Saturday, do you recall what you did on Saturday
the 23d?
Mrs. CHEEK. Sure can’t, not right off.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you spend all day watching television?
Mrs. CHEEK. No; I didn’t spend all day watching TV. I just happened
to turn on the TV because Mr. Zmolik asked me to turn on the TV that
day. I don’t know what I was doing. I was probably cleaning the house,
because I didn’t have a maid.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I take it you were probably in and out?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes; cleaning the apartment, and sometimes I even cleaned
the apartments myself.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Sunday morning, the 24th, do you recall what you
were doing the morning of the 24th?
Mrs. CHEEK. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall when it was you first learned that Jack Ruby
had shot Lee Oswald?
Mrs. CHEEK. No; I don’t.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I want to hand you what I have marked “Dallas, Texas,
4-14-64, Bertha Cheek, Exhibit 5354.”
This consists of two pages of an interview report which is marked
Commission’s Document 86, Page 132, and 80, Page 133.
It is a copy of a report made by Special Agent David Barry of the FBI,
with you, Mrs. Cheek, on December 9, 1963.
I want you to read that over and I will ask you the same questions with
respect to that as I asked with the previous report. That is, would you
make any additions or corrections on that?
If you felt that that is an accurate report of the interview you had
with Agent Barry?
Mrs. CHEEK. I had bought and sold in the nightclubs, no. I didn’t say
that. I didn’t mean to give them the impression, if they got that
impression, that I had bought and sold nightclubs. No. I told them
about Maple Avenue, you know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me see what portion of the report you are referring to.
Mrs. CHEEK. I don’t remember buying and selling nightclubs, but I
would, if I could make any money.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This report says on Page 132; “Mrs. Cheek stated that she
has been in the real estate business in Dallas, Texas, for a number of
years.”
Mrs. CHEEK. That’s right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. “That she frequently has bought and sold interests in
nightclubs; that during the past several months she has been attempting
to locate a good nightclub investment; and that in this connection she
had visited practically every nightclub in Dallas which she considered
might be purchased outright or in which an interest might be obtained.”
Mrs. CHEEK. I was interested in buying one, but I hadn’t bought and
sold them.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So the only change you would make in the paragraph was to
strike out that clause which reads, “that she frequently has bought and
sold interests in nightclubs”?
Mrs. CHEEK. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you want to take this pen and put a line through
that and initial it?