The testimony of Vernon S. Smart was taken at 12:15 p.m., on March 25,
1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building,
Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Burt W. Griffin,
assistant counsel of the President’s Commission.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Lieutenant Smart, my name is Burt Griffin, and I am one
of the attorneys on the advisory staff of the General Counsel of the
President’s Commission Investigating the Assassination of President
Kennedy. This Commission has been set up by virtue of an Executive
order issued by President Johnson and joint resolution of Congress.
The Executive order is No. 11130 and the congressional resolution
is No. 137. We have promulgated a set of rules of procedure, the
Commission has, and under these rules of procedure, I have been given
authority to take your sworn deposition. Part of our rules of standard
procedure is to explain to you in advance what the general nature of
the Commission’s inquiry is. I will state in a general fashion that we
are trying to ascertain and evaluate and report back to the President
on the facts, and all of the facts, that relate to the assassination of
President Kennedy and the murder of Lee Oswald. Our particular concern
in calling you has more to do with the assassination or murder of Lee
Oswald than it has to do with the assassination of the President;
however, we want to have all of the information that you have which
you think is pertinent to the matter that the Commission is involved
in. Now, we have addressed a letter, that is, the General Counsel
has addressed a letter, to Chief Curry requesting that you be made
available to appear here. Under the rules of the Commission, you are
entitled to a personal 3-day notice before you testify. You can waive
this notice. I will ask you right now if you want the 3-day notice or
whether you are willing to waive the notice?
Mr. SMART. No; I will waive it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Also, you are entitled to have an attorney here, and some
of the witnesses do have attorneys and others of them don’t, and I take
it that, by the fact that you are appearing here alone, that you do
not desire an attorney; however, if you do desire to have an attorney
present representing you, I wish you would say so at this time, and
don’t feel that it would be any embarrassment to any of us or we would
be concerned about it.
Mr. SMART. No; I don’t feel like I need one right now.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, let me tell you.
Mr. SMART. Not for this; no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. We have no authority to prosecute anybody.
Mr. SMART. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This is a factfinding matter, and I think more than very
many people fully appreciate that this investigation is intimately
connected with the security of the country.
Mr. SMART. Right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And, of course, most particularly the security of the
President, and it is terribly important from a standpoint of protection
and making sure that things don’t happen in the future----
Mr. SMART. I understand.
Mr. GRIFFIN. That we get everything. We have collected a lot of
information in this area, and I can only tell you that what you think
might be unimportant or would be more interested in withholding for
fear of embarrassing somebody could be terribly important to us when
all of the pieces are put together.
Mr. SMART. That is right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, let me ask you if you have any questions about what
we are doing here?
Mr. SMART. No; I think I understand.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me swear you in, then. If you will, will you raise
your right hand? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about
to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Mr. SMART. I do.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Lieutenant Smart, when were you born?
Mr. SMART. July 10, 1912.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And where do you live now?
Mr. SMART. Dallas.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What is your address?
Mr. SMART. 2120 Ballycastle Street.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. And you are employed with the Dallas Police
Department?
Mr. SMART. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And you are a lieutenant?
Mr. SMART. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long have you been with the police department?
Mr. SMART. Twenty-nine years.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you been interviewed by any member of this staff? I
am not talking about FBI agents, but any members of the President’s
Commission staff----
Mr. SMART. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Other than me?
Mr. SMART. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And have I interviewed you before taking your deposition
here?
Mr. SMART. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. I am going to mark here for identification
purposes a copy of an interview that was held with you by Special
Agents Bookhout and Myers, [spelling] M-y-e-r-s, and that is Bookhout
[spelling], B-o-o-k-h-o-u-t, of the Federal Bureau of Investigation on
November 25, 1963. I am going to mark that, “Dallas, Texas, Lieutenant
Smart, 3-25-64, Exhibit 5021.” I am going to hand it to you and ask you
if you have had a chance to read that over?
Mr. SMART. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, are there any additions or corrections that you would
care to make in that?
Mr. SMART. No. I told it to them just as I saw and heard it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you file a report of your own activities with the
police department?
Mr. SMART. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I wonder if you would be good enough to provide us with a
copy of that. You think, after this interview is over, you could get a
copy of it and provide it to us?
Mr. SMART. Could I?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. SMART. You say could I?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. SMART. I think so. I don’t have it in my possession.
Mr. GRIFFIN. We have asked everybody else, and there is no problem on
that.
Mr. SMART. Yes, I am sure they will.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me ask you this. Were you on duty on November 22?
Mr. SMART. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where were you stationed?
Mr. SMART. Wait a minute. November 22?
Mr. GRIFFIN. The day that the President was shot.
Mr. SMART. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you on duty on November 23?
Mr. SMART. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And what time did you come to work that day?
Mr. SMART. 7 a.m.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, you are in charge of the auto theft division, is that
right?
Mr. SMART. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is there any officer who is above you in the auto theft
division?
Mr. SMART. At that time?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. SMART. No. You say are there or was there?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was there at that time?
Mr. SMART. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, what was the relationship of Captain Nichols?
Mr. SMART. He was off duty that day.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. But he is also an officer in it?
Mr. SMART. He is in charge of it.