Mr. EBERHARDT. There was a bunch of them running around there talking
that unknown tongue. I don’t know what they were saying. There were
some orientals; there was some French; there were several dialects
running around there that I didn’t know what they were talking about.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, you saw Jack at a later time, also, didn’t you?
Mr. EBERHARDT. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, could it have been at this later time that Jack told
you about the kosher sandwiches?
Mr. EBERHARDT. I didn’t speak to him at the later time. That is the
only time I spoke to him. I just seen him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know, after Ruby killed Oswald, there were a number
of rumors that circulated as to how he got into the basement, and one
of the rumors was that he got in by the use of a press badge? Now, one
thing we are interested in here is tracing how these rumors might have
gotten started. You recall your actions after the assassination is that
you might have described this particular episode that you just told us
about now about being an Israeli interpreter. Do you recall that you
mentioned that to anybody within the 24 hours after Ruby killed Oswald?
Mr. EBERHARDT. No; I didn’t. The first one I talked to about it was
when the FBI agents asked me about it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, wasn’t it common for all of you people to be talking
about any contact that you had with Ruby on those 2 days?
Mr. EBERHARDT. See, I wasn’t there. I was gone Sunday and Monday.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. But I mean, even when you came back, wasn’t there a
lot of gossip, what-not, guys exchanging views?
Mr. EBERHARDT. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Didn’t you somewhere between the time you actually saw
Ruby here and the time that you were interviewed by the agents, didn’t
you talk to somebody in the police department about your meeting Ruby?
Mr. EBERHARDT. Yes. We talked about him being up there in the office,
and being around the city hall like that and wondered how he got in
the basement, and then the only other thing I did on that was write a
report to the chief of police on some information given to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Off of the record here.
(Discussion off of the record.)
Mr. GRIFFIN. We will go on the record on this. I have asked Mr. Hubert
to check in our files to see if we have got a copy of this report that
you mentioned that you gave to Chief Curry. Now, I don’t have any
recollection that we have it, and let me ask you now, if he doesn’t
report back to me and say that we have it, would you be good enough,
when you go back to work today, to check where a copy of this report
is and provide it to us? I am going to ask you to clear it with your
superiors and everything.
Mr. EBERHARDT. All right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I would like to see a copy of that. What did that report
deal with?
Mr. EBERHARDT. This was information given to me by a police reserve who
I know real well who was on duty at the time. He didn’t think anything
about telling anybody about it, and several days later he told me about
it, about going out to the hospital when Oswald was shot and talking to
another reserve out there, that he didn’t know his name, who said that
he had seen or thought he had seen a man walk down the ramp outside of
the city hall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who was the reserve officer that gave you this information?
Mr. EBERHARDT. H. B. Holly, Jr. And as soon as he told me about it, I
sat down and wrote a “Dear Chief,” and gave it to my captain.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have occasion yourself to talk to this unknown
reserve officer?
Mr. EBERHARDT. No; I didn’t. I talked to Holly.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Okay. Mr. Hubert indicated to me that we didn’t have a
copy of this report, and I would appreciate very much seeing it.
Mr. EBERHARDT. Okay. I will try.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember what you did in the period between the
time you saw Ruby, at which you estimated at 6 or 7 p.m., and when you
saw him later on at the press conference?
Mr. EBERHARDT. I worked--I just worked my day out, and then they held
us over.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you stay in?
Mr. EBERHARDT. Yes. They had us on standby. I did paper work, caught
up on supplements. They held us over a little bit, and then we had
the press conference. When they brought Oswald in, we stood with him,
myself and a couple of other detectives.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You stood next, right next, to Oswald for the purpose of
guarding him?
Mr. EBERHARDT. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And were you able to look out over the crowd?
Mr. EBERHARDT. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, where did you see Ruby in the crowd?
Mr. EBERHARDT. He was on the right-hand side of the room standing up on
one of the tables with a notebook and pencil in his hand, with all of
the reporters and cameramen out there. They were facing us. They were
in the assembly room.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who were the other people guarding?
Mr. EBERHARDT. There was a whole line, a whole line in front of the
showup. I was standing about three people removed behind Oswald. I was
standing behind Oswald and the reporters were shooting questions at
them.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was he seated?
Mr. EBERHARDT. No; he was standing. We were all standing.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You were able to look over his shoulder?
Mr. EBERHARDT. Oh, yes; I had a full view of the room.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall what other police officers were down there
with you guarding Oswald and looking out?
Mr. EBERHARDT. Well, Mr. Wade was there; Chief Curry was there; Captain
King was there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What other detectives were guarding Oswald?
Mr. EBERHARDT. Well, homicide detectives were there. I don’t know which
ones they were. The ones that, you know, were working on him, probably
Leavelle and his partner. Joe Cody was there. That is the only ones
I remember. And there was some uniform men from the jail, I believe,
there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you stay after Oswald left?
Mr. EBERHARDT. Until they got him out. I didn’t have anything to
do with transporting him to or from the assembly room, but when he
initially arrived in the assembly room, they asked us to go up there
more or less to keep the reporters from making a rush for him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you happen to go down to the assembly room in the
first place?
Mr. EBERHARDT. To hear the press conference.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Out of curiosity?
Mr. EBERHARDT. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did any other men from your bureau go down there?
Mr. EBERHARDT. Yes; Cody is from my bureau, and he is the only one that
I remember being up there with me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Did you stay in the press conference room after
the homicide people took Oswald out?
Mr. EBERHARDT. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And did Chief Curry speak at that time?
Mr. EBERHARDT. No; Henry Wade did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, do you recall anything that happened during Henry
Wade’s interview?
Mr. EBERHARDT. No; because when Oswald left, then all semblance of any
kind of order disappeared. They just, you know, come up around Henry
Wade and just started----
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember Ruby’s saying anything during this press
conference?
Mr. EBERHARDT. No; I don’t remember seeing him again, either.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember Henry Wade making any statement to the
effect that Oswald was a member of the Free Cuba Committee?
Mr. EBERHARDT. I don’t remember too much of what the district attorney
said. There was so much written and heard about it, it is hard to
differentiate what Wade said from what I read in the paper.
Mr. GRIFFIN. If Ruby had said something at this press conference, would
you have noticed it or heard it?
Mr. EBERHARDT. I have heard that he had from other people, you know,
rumors around, but myself, I don’t remember he said anything. I heard
he corrected Mr. Wade on a question, is what I heard.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. EBERHARDT. Is what I heard. I didn’t stay for the entire
conference. I was at liberty to go home. When they had me go up there
and guard Oswald, as soon as he left, I was at liberty to go home.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When did you leave this conference?
Mr. EBERHARDT. About 5 minutes after he left.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you and Cody leave together?
Mr. EBERHARDT. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you sign out of the building or anything?
Mr. EBERHARDT. No; we don’t sign out. I just left, got in my car and
went home.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Cody remain in there after you did?
Mr. EBERHARDT. I don’t know. I lost him in the shuffle. I stood over
there by Johnny, the news reporter up there in the pressroom at the
city hall, is who I stood by while the conference was going on. He
asked a couple of questions. I couldn’t tell you what questions he
asked. No; there was no semblance of order. Those reporters just holler
out anything that comes in their mind, and whoever shouts the loudest
is whoever gets the answer, is how it works.
Mr. GRIFFIN. If Ruby had said something while you were in there, would
you have been close enough to Henry Wade or to Ruby to have heard it?
Mr. EBERHARDT. I don’t know where Ruby was, so I couldn’t answer that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, you said at this press conference you saw Ruby
standing back----
Mr. EBERHARDT. Right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Back on a table?