Mr. HUBERT. Below the actual basement used for parking area?
Mr. PIERCE. That is this area.
Mr. HUBERT. In the city hall.
Mr. PIERCE. Right here.
Mr. HUBERT. In that subbasement you have all your actual machinery?
Mr. PIERCE. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Is it possible to get into the subbasement from the outside
on Commerce Street?
Mr. PIERCE. On a weekend, normally; no, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. There is a door, though?
Mr. PIERCE. There is a door that connects the subbasement with the
staircase that leads to the sidewalk on Commerce Street.
Mr. HUBERT. All right.
Mr. PIERCE. Now, that door is normally locked on weekends.
Mr. HUBERT. Always locked on weekends.
Mr. PIERCE. Unless, inadvertently, someone left it open. It is supposed
to be--and it is all the time when I am on duty, it is locked. Because
I don’t want any----
Mr. HUBERT. Was it locked on November 24, all the time?
Mr. PIERCE. It was locked.
Mr. HUBERT. You were in charge of it, and you say that it was locked?
Mr. PIERCE. Yes. Now, with this reservation being that the head porter,
our--Mr. Servance, also has a key to that door, because the porters’
quarters, their locker room area and quarters, what we refer to as
quarters generally is on the outside of that door in the police and
courts building proper, and to get to it--their duties and in this
garage area here, and in the municipal building, they are required to
go in and out of that door to get their assigned jobs. He has a key,
and when I say, “to my knowledge it was locked,” the only reservation
is that at sometime he was there and present in that area, and it was
locked unless opened by him, or a porter who was working.
Mr. HUBERT. So, if a person could get into this subbasement, he could
go very easily into the basement, itself?
Mr. PIERCE. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. No locked door between them?
Mr. PIERCE. No locked doors. It has the stairway that goes from the
subbasement, the stairway level up to----
Mr. HUBERT. What kind of a lock is there on that subbasement door that
you are talking about? Do you need a key to get in?
Mr. PIERCE. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. When you pass through the door does it automatically lock?
Mr. PIERCE. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. That is a push button type
lock. It is true, you can let yourself out of the subbasement and go
out towards their area.
Mr. HUBERT. Porters’ area?
Mr. PIERCE. And when it closes back, it is locked. It locks, and to
come back through you have to use your key again unless you are going
to be there for some period of time, you want to be--you can push the
button you are speaking of automatically and that releases itself
automatically. If you push the button it remains unlocked for you.
Mr. HUBERT. That would be true also if a person was coming from the
outside and wanted to get into the subbasement, or you--use the key to
get in and when the doors shuts again, it is locked?
Mr. PIERCE. It is locked; yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, I think that about covers it, Mr. Pierce. Have
you been interviewed by any member of the President’s Commission to
your knowledge, sir?
Mr. PIERCE. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, sir.
Mr. PIERCE. As for the--any personnel going in the garage area there
at the time he was shot, I guess I am not in the position to say
positively there was no one other than news personnel or media and
police.
Mr. HUBERT. But, you don’t know that to be a fact, do you?
Mr. PIERCE. I was fixing to say that I would be willing, even though I
am under oath here, to swear to tell the truth, that there was no one
there, because those personnel we have mentioned here, Riggs and Fuqua,
at the time we were forced to leave, and came up, you know, I mentioned
he remained in the basement momentarily there until it was evident that
he also would have to leave. Then he and Harold went to the--because of
the availability there of a television set, went to the police locker
room lounge.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, now, do you know that of your own knowledge?
Mr. PIERCE. I do know that.
Mr. HUBERT. Or have you been told?
Mr. PIERCE. Well, as a matter of security I mentioned it, because after
they got to that position then they couldn’t even come back and were
required to stay there.
Mr. HUBERT. But, you know that only because other people told you that?
Mr. PIERCE. That is where they were required to stay. That is where
they spent the remainder of their time, because they could not come
back and rejoin us.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know how they left that building to get to the
police recreation room?
Mr. PIERCE. From the elevator area here--let’s see; no, I don’t know
if they walked directly across to a stairway there, another stairway
that goes to the police locker lounge other than the stairway we are
speaking of, comes from Commerce Street down to the subbasement itself,
and in the building. A stairway which policemen use all the time to go
down to the lockers.
Mr. HUBERT. You mean from the municipal building?
Mr. PIERCE. No; from the garage area.
Mr. HUBERT. From the garage area, right.
Mr. PIERCE. But, from the municipal building that is not so. From being
required to stay there and unable to even leave there, even now, like I
said, I can’t possibly state there was no one else there, but I do know
they weren’t in this area, because they were supposed to be--stay where
they were and----
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know how they got out of the municipal building
that they were in with you to get to the police room, from your own
knowledge? Not what somebody else told you, but from your own knowledge?
Mr. PIERCE. From my own knowledge; no, sir. I don’t know. Now, there
was a small interval of time elapsed when we first left the basement
area here on the elevator and came up to the first floor. McKinzie
was the operator of the elevator, which has a buzzer system on it for
calling, and as such, is required to answer calls to whatever floor
the personnel is calling for elevator service there, because that
is the only elevator in operation, and he did answer a call or two
probably from the phone operators up on five, like I say, when we left
the basement area and went up to one, he was there, too, and in that
small interval of time, I would say about 10 minutes, he came back
and reparked the elevator there on one and said that--told me that a
policeman had told him not to answer any more calls on that elevator.
To even remove the elevator completely from the basement area, and
don’t answer any more calls until notified later. And that--and that
elevator stayed there then at that point there is one of the things
that entered my mind a while ago when you were speaking of--about the
elevator being shut off, and the operator can turn a switch and turn
it out of service, and he brought up the elevator and told me, and
Servance was there, at the time, and Servance is his immediate boss,
and told Servance that he had been instructed not to answer any more
calls on that elevator.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I asked you whether or not you know how Riggs and
Fuqua got out of the building? What way they used to get out of the
building?
Mr. PIERCE. Now, they left us where we were there in that small
interval of time and it is possible that they went back down and walked
across to the stairway that goes to the police locker room, is--that is
the only way they could get to it, if they took that route, actually,
the question was, “Do I know how?”, and I’m not certain, because I did
not follow them or go with them.
The easiest way, across the other stairway and went down to the police
locker room or that stairway from Commerce Street down to the porters’
quarters, and the subbasement where our equipment is, from that
stairway there is a door that is locked there, also. They would have
to have a key. If they got in the police locker room there is a fire
escape from the locker room out to the outside in case they ever have
to leave, but you cannot go into it without a key.
If they used that route, they had to use a key, which I don’t know if
anybody has a key or not.
It is the only two ways they could have gotten there, and at that
time when they were immediately clearing out of this area, it is very
possible the policemen, knowing that they were building maintenance
employees, and been seeing them for years, especially John the head
porter, why, and Harold Fuqua in charge of parking of cars in this
basement area, might have said it was all right for them to take these
stairs down to the locker room as they were going to have to leave this
area anyway. They could either have gone to the--they could either have
gone from the municipal building down the stairs or permitted them to
go back into the police and courts building.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, now, they have gotten out of the municipal building
by going through the service elevator, through the alleyway door and
out through the alley to Main Street, couldn’t they?
Mr. PIERCE. They could have, but they couldn’t have gotten--they would
have to come back into this basement area down this ramp in order to
get into where the stairway is to go down to the police locker room.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, they could have gone down the police department
building entrance on Harwood, down into this basement.