Mr. HUBERT. Isn’t there a fire case where----

Mr. PIERCE. The enter--staircase, you still can’t get there. It is

impossible to get there, because that staircase is always locked from

the municipal building. That stairway is inside the building proper. It

is not an outside stairway like this.

Mr. HUBERT. Yes; I understand.

Mr. PIERCE. And the entrance to it is always locked.

Mr. HUBERT. There are two staircases that open onto the main floor of

the municipal building, isn’t that correct, or three?

Mr. PIERCE. One on Commerce Street. One back in the building, and

then another one up on Main Street which goes up into a second floor,

but the second floor they are faced also with the same proposition

on weekends, which you are speaking of here. That entire building is

separated.

Mr. HUBERT. Well, now, as to both of those staircases, is it not a fact

that they do not go down into the basement at all. Only one goes down

to the basement?

Mr. PIERCE. Only one goes down to the basement?

Mr. HUBERT. And that one is a staircase just off the corridor on the

Main Street side?

Mr. PIERCE. Right. That goes down.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, they have doors that--two doors, sort of swinging

doors, are they not?

Mr. PIERCE. Not to the first floor; no, sir.

Mr. HUBERT. Can’t you at all times use those doors to get into the

staircase and go either up or down?

Mr. PIERCE. When you say “those doors,” you are referring to the single

door on each stairway, of which there are two, or still speaking of

a one single door which leads to the stairway which goes down to the

basement?

Mr. HUBERT. To the basement, the other two do not go down into the

basement. It is the single--that is what I mean, when I said you would

have to leave the first floor and go down into the basement, you could

take that stairway, so that a person getting into the main floor, can

get to the police basement by using that stairway?

Mr. PIERCE. That’s right. He can come down it and go out, but he cannot

leave the basement area and go up, because it is always locked. The

entrance to the building is locked. That door is always locked.

Mr. HUBERT. But, going the other way, that is to say, from the main

building down to the basement via that staircase, you would need no

key, and that door is open all the time?

Mr. PIERCE. Right, sir.

Mr. HUBERT. Even on weekends?

Mr. PIERCE. Right, sir. That is one of the other means?

Mr. HUBERT. Well, that leaves, I think, one other entrance to the

municipal building, and the entrance in the back on the alleyway. Now,

are you familiar with that entrance and that door?

Mr. PIERCE. Yes, sir.

Mr. HUBERT. Will you tell us about that--how that door operates?

Mr. PIERCE. It is a door--double door.

Mr. HUBERT. A double door?

Mr. PIERCE. Comes together and has a lock on it, which when locked is

locked both from the inside--you can’t get out, and the outside you

can’t get in.

Mr. HUBERT. So, when locked you need a key to go either way, is that

correct?

Mr. PIERCE. That’s right.

Mr. HUBERT. All right, now, suppose someone had a key and went out that

door, and simply let the door slam behind him, well, would that door

be, at that time, locked or unlocked?

Mr. PIERCE. It will be unlocked.

Mr. HUBERT. To lock it you must use a key to turn the lock?

Mr. PIERCE. You have to step outside the door and turn around and use

your keys to lock it back.

Mr. HUBERT. And, if you don’t do that, it is an open door?

Mr. PIERCE. It is an open door.

Mr. HUBERT. That is to say, it might be closed, but all you’d have to

do is turn the knob and go on in?

Mr. PIERCE. That’s what I mean. It is open until you take your key and

relock yourself out. No one else can get in without a key.

Mr. HUBERT. Now, do you know whether anyone did go through that door

from the first floor into the alleyway that day from your own knowledge?

Mr. PIERCE. Not from actually having seen them, but as a matter of

my knowledge, I am quite sure that that door was opened and closed

probably several times prior to the shooting because the porters work.

In their normal assigned work, now, they take out trash and paper sacks

and garbage and whatnot. Mr. Servance, the head porter, always has a

key to that door for the removal of trash.

Mr. HUBERT. What is the custom with respect to locking or not locking

the door when they routinely perform the porter duties?

Mr. PIERCE. The normal custom is to unlock the door and take their

trash out, and their receptacle for the trash is immediately on the

other side of the door, and as a matter of habit and routine, while

they are--they take a garbage can out on four-wheel dollies and leave

the door open there until they can set the cans over in there, or as

close as from here to that door from the door they have just left open,

and they set the full cans off onto the dolly and pick up the four

clean cans and set them back on the dolly and push them back into the

building, and it is only for that period of time, but they relock it

when they come back in.

Mr. HUBERT. But, normally, it is an open door while they are

performing----

Mr. PIERCE. While they are performing their duties.

Mr. HUBERT. Do you know whether the Main Street entrance to the

municipal building was locked that day?

Mr. PIERCE. It was locked; yes, sir.

Mr. HUBERT. You tested it yourself?

Mr. PIERCE. And I inadvertently did. Not purposely, for any purpose,

but I did.

Mr. HUBERT. You say that you inadvertently did?

Mr. PIERCE. And I am glad it happened that way.

Mr. HUBERT. Well, tell us about that, briefly.

Mr. PIERCE. The Main Street door is comprised of a revolving door with

two little vestibule-type doors, one each--that is, one on each side

of the revolving door and the two vestibule doors and revolving door

are all locked, and I do know that they were locked, because for this

reason. In the crowd and milling of curiosity seekers and general

public that had gone up and down Main Street, as well as Commerce, and

in an attempt to get in and see what was going on, a couple--two women

looked through the glass of the doors there. And apparently thought,

well, if they could get in here they could see in, because I believe it

was a time--no, I wouldn’t even say I believe it was a time. It might

be they had tried the ramp area, and at any rate, they came up to the

door and tried to get in the revolving door as if to come in off of

Main Street, and apparently not knowing that the building was closed

for the weekend, they thought they could come right in city hall, and I

just waved my hand at them this way [indicating] and they had seen it

was locked, and I waved my hand at them as if to say, “I’m not going to

open it for you. City hall is closed.” We have to do that quite often,

because people come down and want to pay their water bills and we have

to say, “We are closed for the weekend.” And I know it was closed

because they were trying to see if they could get in. In fact, this

was the time when even I didn’t know all this other was going to take

place, but I figured, too, curiosity.

Warren Commission (13 of 26): Hearings Vol. XIII (of 15) · 第 148 / 336 题