The testimony of Louis McKinzie was taken at 9 a.m., on March 25, 1964,
in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan
and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Leon D. Hubert, Jr., assistant
counsel of the President’s Commission.
Mr. HUBERT. Mr. McKinzie, my name is Leon Hubert, I am a member of the
advisory staff of the general counsel of the President’s Commission
on the assassination of President Kennedy. Under the provisions of
the President’s Executive Order 11130, dated November 29, 1963, a
Joint Resolution of Congress, No. 137, and the rules of procedure
adopted by the Commission in conformance with an Executive order in
that resolution, I have been authorized to take a sworn deposition
of you, Mr. McKinzie. I state to you now that the general nature of
the Commission’s inquiry is to ascertain, evaluate, and report upon
the facts relating to the assassination of President Kennedy and the
subsequent violent death of Lee Oswald. In particular to you, Mr.
McKinzie, the nature of the inquiry today is to determine what facts
you know about the death of Oswald and any other pertinent facts
you may know about the general inquiry. Now, Mr. McKinzie, you have
appeared here today by virtue of the fact that the members of the
Secret Service contacted you to locate you and ask you to come, is that
correct?
Mr. McKINZIE. That’s correct.
Mr. HUBERT. You have not yet received the letter addressed to you
by Mr. J. Lee Rankin, that you would be asked to come here, is that
correct?
Mr. McKINZIE. That’s correct.
Mr. HUBERT. I see that the copy of the letter that I have was addressed
to 321 Harmon Street, Dallas, Tex. That is not your address. Your
address was 3321 Harmon, so, they left out one 3 there. There was also
a copy of a letter sent to the Dallas Public Works Department addressed
to you that you didn’t receive.
Mr. McKINZIE. I didn’t receive that.
Mr. HUBERT. Let me say that under the rules adopted by the Commission,
you are entitled to a 3-day written notice prior to the taking of this
deposition. As I told you, we sent out the letter with the hope that it
would be received, but apparently you have not received it. The rules,
however, provide that any witness may waive the 3-day notice if he
wishes to do so. Are you willing to waive the 3-day notice?
Mr. McKINZIE. Probably, I don’t quite understand there what you mean.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, you could, if you want to say now, “I’ll
come in when I get the letter.”
Mr. McKINZIE. I see. I see. Well, not necessary.
Mr. HUBERT. If you want to. It is just a waiving of nothing else but
the notice.
Mr. McKINZIE. In other words, since I am here, I’d just as soon not do
that. I mean, I’d just as soon answer your questions.
Mr. HUBERT. You are waiving nothing else but the notice that the rules
of procedure adopted by the Commission say that you are entitled to.
Mr. McKINZIE. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. If you feel that you would just as soon go ahead now and
not come back 3 days after you get the letter, then you are willing to
waive it, is that correct?
Mr. McKINZIE. That’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you stand, please, and raise your right hand so that
you may be sworn? Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. McKINZIE. I do.
Mr. HUBERT. Please state your name for me.
Mr. McKINZIE. Louis McKinzie.
Mr. HUBERT. What is your age?
Mr. McKINZIE. Fifty-four.
Mr. HUBERT. Where is your residence, Mr. McKinzie?
Mr. McKINZIE. 3321 Harmon.
Mr. HUBERT. That is Dallas, Tex.?
Mr. McKINZIE. Dallas, Tex.
Mr. HUBERT. What is your occupation?
Mr. McKINZIE. Porter.
Mr. HUBERT. Where?
Mr. McKINZIE. City hall, public works department.
Mr. HUBERT. You are a city employee?
Mr. McKINZIE. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. How long have you been a city hall employee, sir?
Mr. McKINZIE. Exact--this is March and--Oh, I’d say 6 years and 6
months. That would be just about it, correct.
Mr. HUBERT. What was your occupation before that?
Mr. McKINZIE. Well, I did construction work mostly.
Mr. HUBERT. Carpenter?
Mr. McKINZIE. Carpenter’s helper.
Mr. HUBERT. Carpenter’s helper?
Mr. McKINZIE. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you been living in the Dallas area all your life?
Mr. McKINZIE. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Where did you live before coming to Dallas?
Mr. McKINZIE. I was raised at East Texas, Palestine, Anderson County.
Mr. HUBERT. Are you married?
Mr. McKINZIE. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Children?
Mr. McKINZIE. Five.
Mr. HUBERT. All grown.
Mr. McKINZIE. All grown.
Mr. HUBERT. What is your particular job with the Dallas Public Works
Department?
Mr. McKINZIE. General porter work. I keep the first floor on the public
works department and water department and building permit department
and general split shift. I work, oh, every day, part-time.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, when you say general porter in the water works
department, that is the first floor of the municipal building?
Mr. McKINZIE. Yes; that’s right.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I would like you to describe how you can get into the
first floor of the municipal building. All possible ways to get in the
first floor?
Mr. McKINZIE. Well, you have got--you have got a door on Main Street
that you can come in. You have got a door on Commerce Street that you
can come in. Also, have a door on the alley coming from the Western
Union that you can come in, and if somebody lets you in, well, I mean,
you know it is open to the public through the week, but weekends it is
not. In other words, none of the doors open to the public on weekends.
Just working days only.
Mr. HUBERT. Those doors are locked on weekends, that is, Friday night?
Mr. McKINZIE. That’s right. In other words, after 6:30 in the afternoon
all doors are locked and all elevators are canceled but one, which that
is what they call the freight elevator. It runs from the basement all
the way to the fifth floor, and that is where everybody is supposed to
go in and out, through the building at night and on weekends, Saturdays
and Sundays and holidays, unless it is maintenance men, they have their
own keys.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, is there any passageway between the building known as
the jail building, or the police department building and the municipal
building?
Mr. McKINZIE. First floor, second floor and third floor.
Mr. HUBERT. And what?
Mr. McKINZIE. In other words, they have gates there that they close
after closing time and lock.