Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you indicating that you just don’t remember?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I just don’t remember for sure how many was in there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was anything said to you by any of the people with Ruby
when you went up to the jail to get him?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No; they didn’t say anything to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did they pass on any information about anything Ruby had
said?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. No; did you people talk at all with Ruby as you brought
him downstairs?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I’m sure we did, and I am trying to remember what we
said. Let’s see.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, now, you knew Ruby. Did you try to get him to open
up on the way down?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No; I didn’t. Usually when we are bringing a prisoner
down I don’t try to talk to them too much. I don’t want to upset
anything, you know, any plans he has to talk to him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did Captain Fritz know that you were acquainted with
Ruby?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. He knew when I told him; yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When did you tell him that?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. As we was going out to Parkland Hospital. He kept
saying, “Who is Jack Ruby?” And I told him, “He is a man that runs the
Club Vegas out on Oak Lawn.”
Asked me did I know him, I said, “Yes; I used to have a district for
about 4 years out there.”
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you feel that if you would talk to Ruby, that Ruby
might have been willing to give you any information?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No; because Ruby and I, first of all, weren’t that
close or anything. As a matter of fact, I don’t guess he even remembers
my name or face, either.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Uh-huh.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. But he was used to seeing officers come in his place. I
don’t imagine he would remember one any more than others--another.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did any of the officers up there at the jail cell with
Ruby when you went up there to get him come down on the elevator with
you?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I believe Hall, FBI Agent Hall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And did Hall go into Captain Fritz’ office?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Now, our Detective Hall rather than Agent Hall did. I
just don’t know, because I couldn’t say for sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who do you remember being in Fritz’ office the first time,
or--on this occasion when Ruby was brought down by you?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Well, I know that Captain Fritz, Ruby, and, of course,
Detectives Hall and Boyd--Detective M. G. Hall. I know they were there
for sure, and who else was there I couldn’t swear, because I just saw
them walk up to the door to Captain Fritz’ office. And they went in,
of course, the blinds were drawn in Fritz’ office, so, I couldn’t see
who was in there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you do after they took Ruby into Fritz’ office?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Well, I sat down and answered some more of them phone
calls.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you do that?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I don’t recall anything outstanding from then on. I
know I didn’t get off until, have to look at my notebook again. Yes;
seemed to me about 10.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you take Ruby back upstairs?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No; I didn’t take him back upstairs.
Mr. GRIFFIN. No?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No; I didn’t take him back upstairs.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see him taken back upstairs?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No; I, evidently, was in the squad room at the time he
was taken back.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see Ruby brought back down a second time?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No; I didn’t, not that day; no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you in the homicide bureau the entire time?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. In and out.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you out for any period as long as 10 or 15 minutes?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Well, I talked to one witness back for, I guess for
about 20 or 30 minutes. The way our office is set up they could have
carried him in and taken him back out without some of them sitting back
in the squad room ever seeing him come in or go out.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This first occasion when you brought Ruby down, was Agent
Sorrels of the Secret Service in Fritz’ office?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I couldn’t say for sure, because those blinds were
drawn to the captain’s office, and I couldn’t see who all was in there.
I walked up to the door. I could see Captain Fritz, and Hall and Boyd
stepped on inside.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Okay. Go ahead.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. At 10:30--I left at 10:30 Sunday night.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Prior to 10:30, I take it you answered; you didn’t see
Ruby again?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Not that Sunday; no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Did you talk--did you see Archer again on that
Sunday?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Archer and them, let’s see, were in our office, when we
got back from the hospital--Archer and Harrison, Cutchshaw and Lowery
were all in the office when we got back.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was there any discussion in there about how Ruby got into
the basement?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I think there was some--somebody say, “How did he get
down here?”
Mr. GRIFFIN. And what was said?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Well, of course, nobody knew for sure. Said, “Well, no
telling how he got in.”
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see Archer after that other than when you saw him
up in the jail cell?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Not that day. I don’t believe Archer was in our office.
I know Harrison and Cutchshaw and Lowery were in there, and McMillon
was upstairs with Archer, because I remember now in the scuffle down
here in apprehending Jack Ruby, McMillon lost his hat, and, of course,
I thought it was Ruby’s hat, so, I was hanging onto it, you know, and
on the way to Parkland I looked inside and T. D. McMillon’s initials
were in it, so, upon our arrival back from Parkland Hospital to the
office, I went down to McMillon’s office and left his hat.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk with Harrison at all about how Ruby got in,
Blackie Harrison?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I don’t believe I did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk with Lowery at all about it?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Well, like I say, we were all back there in that squad
room, and somebody said, “How did he get down there?” And I don’t know
who said--well, I don’t know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Didn’t Lowery say at that point that he thought Ruby
pushed a TV camera in?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I couldn’t swear that he did or didn’t.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you, Cutchshaw, Lowery, and Harrison remain
in the homicide office?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Didn’t stay there but just a few minutes. I know when
we left they were in there writing out a report of some kind. Didn’t
even ask them what they was writing. Sitting there writing something.
Anyway, after I talked to them just as--just a second, I went back to
where Captain Fritz was, and that was when they sent us back upstairs
to get Ruby.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Hall, Harrison, Cutchshaw and Lowery are all from the
juvenile bureau?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes.