Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see anybody that you knew in the area of the
basement, other than police officers?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Anybody I knew?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Other than police, I think just several civilians
behind the desk over there, just the records clerk.
Mr. GRIFFIN. From there did you go to the homicide bureau?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What time do you estimate you arrived at the homicide
bureau?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Probably about 10 after 8 when I got there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who was there when you arrived?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Oh, Captain Fritz and Dhority, Leavelle and Graves, and
I believe Mr. Beck and Brown was there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right; did you talk to any of them when you came in?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Oh, I’m sure I passed the time of day with them.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember anything about any conversation you might
have had with them?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No; nothing outstanding.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you do when you arrived there? What sort of work
did you start to do when you arrived at the homicide bureau?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. As soon as I walked in they walked out for coffee.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And you went out for coffee with them?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No; I stayed there. Of course, I had just gotten there,
so, I stayed and answered the telephones while they went out and had
coffee.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you continue to answer the phone?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Of course when they went and drank coffee and came
right back; I guess for probably 30 minutes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you do when they got back?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. When they got back, of course, captain told us at that
time that he was going to transfer Oswald later on and I think he said
about 10, or something like that; so he sent two of the officers out to
get Oswald and bring him down. Wanted to talk to him. I was trying to
remember what two went up after him. Anyway, two of them went up and
brought him down. I don’t remember which two it was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When Fritz came out and talked about this, where were you
standing?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. What’s that?
Mr. GRIFFIN. When he sent these two men up.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes; told them to go up and get him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where were you standing?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Just outside of the office door.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And Fritz was outside of the office door?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Stepped up to the door there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he give you any instructions?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No; didn’t tell me anything in particular right then.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What is your estimate of what time that was?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Let’s see, approximately around 9 o’clock, somewhere
around 9.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When, between the time you arrived and the time Fritz came
out, did you talk with anybody about the possible movement of Oswald to
the county jail?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I was trying to think. No--let’s see, I don’t believe I
did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was there any conversation in the office during that
period?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. While they were gone out?
Mr. GRIFFIN. While you were there, conversation that you didn’t
participate in, necessarily, but other people were talking about the
movement of Oswald to the county jail?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Prior to the time that Fritz asked that these two officers
bring Oswald downstairs, had you heard anything about the movement of
Oswald?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I think right before they told them to go up, said, “We
are going to transfer him here around 10 o’clock.” I think is what he
said, and that is when he sent a couple of officers to, you know, to
get him and bring him down.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What was your understanding as to what was going to be
done when Oswald was brought down?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Going to talk to him a little bit and transfer him, you
know, down to the county.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Up to this time, had you heard anything about a threat
that may have been made in connection with his transfer?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you hear anything up to that point about how he was
going to be moved?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No; huh-uh.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you learn anything about what route might be used?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No; up until the captain talked to us; no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember anything else the captain told you at that
time other than that they were going to bring him down and get him
ready to move?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No; said we was going to transfer him is all.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you do while these two officers were bringing
Oswald down to Fritz’ office?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I didn’t do anything outstanding. Must have been just
answer the telephone.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, were the telephone calls that you were getting the
same kind of calls that you had been getting?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Any useful information come out of these calls?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you do after Oswald was brought down and while he
was in Fritz’ office?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Well, when they brought him down we stepped into this
office there and there was a--I was standing up there listening to the
interview----
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you remain in Fritz’ office while he interviewed
Oswald?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who was in Fritz’ office at that time?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. At that time, there was, of course, Captain Fritz, and
there was Oswald, and I was there, Leavelle was there and Graves.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was he in Fritz’ office?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Sir?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Graves in Fritz’ office?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Uh-huh; I believe, Dhority, I believe Dhority was in
there. I am not sure, but Dhority was another one of our officers. I
believe he was in there and, of course, he had Inspector Holmes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is he the postal inspector?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes. Inspector Holmes, and I forget the man’s name
for--from the Secret Service.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Mr. Sorrels?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Mr. Sorrels was there, yes; and a--one other man
name--was what--who was that----
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were there any FBI agents there?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I was trying to think if Mr. Bookhout was there, but I
can’t remember if he was inside.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember about what Oswald said and what was said
to Oswald during that period?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I remember they asked him why he shot the President,
and, of course, he said he didn’t do it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Uh-huh.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. And, I don’t recall the exact questions. Just asked him
several questions there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did this questioning last?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Seemed like it was about 25 minutes or an hour that he
was in there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Captain Fritz, you know, asking him questions, and he
would ask Inspector Holmes or Mr. Sorrels if they would like to ask him
a question, and, of course, they would ask him one.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Had you been present at any of the earlier interrogations
of Oswald?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No; I wasn’t.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Why was it you happened to be present at this interview?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I think I just got lost in the office. I was in there
talking to the captain when they brought Oswald in, and, of course, the
captain said, shut the door there, and some of the officers shut the
door.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you happen to be talking to Fritz about?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I don’t recall. I know I was in his office when they
brought Oswald down there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You were there for the entire period of the interrogation
of Oswald?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. That morning; yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember during that period anybody coming into the
office with respect to the movement of Oswald down to the county jail?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. The chief came in.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How many times do you recall the chief coming in?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Just recall one time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long before the end of the interrogation was it?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I imagine it was about--well, it was right there at the
end, you know, when they was still talking, and the chief came in and
wanted to know if we were ready to move him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you hear Chief Curry say anything about the movement?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No; I didn’t hear the chief say anything, because
he was talking to the captain, and when the chief and the captain
talk--they were kind of talking low, and I wasn’t straining my ears to
hear, because I know if there was anything they wanted me to do, I know
they would tell me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How big a room is that?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Not very big.
Mr. GRIFFIN. After this was over, did you hear anything?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Of course, captain told us what we were going to do.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did he tell you what to do?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. In the office there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Oswald there?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Uh-huh.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did he tell you?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. He told us we was going to, you know, transfer him to
the county jail.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he tell you how you were going to go?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Told us we were going to use his car, the captain’s
car. Said he had an armored car down there, but they wasn’t going to
use it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he tell you why he wasn’t going to use it?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I think he said it was too big and bulky.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he tell you what route you were going to take?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Going to leave the basement, Commerce, Central, right
straight up Main.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you aware of an earlier plan to take him by way of
Elm Street rather than Main?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. He said that the armored car was supposed to go up Elm
Street and act as a decoy.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What else did he tell you about how he was going to be
moved?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Of course, he said, no; he wanted Graves on one side
and Leavelle on the other, and wanted Leavelle to handcuff himself to
Oswald there so he wouldn’t get away, and said, “I’ll lead the way
out.” And told me, said, “I want you to follow behind Oswald,” which I
did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he tell you what you were supposed to do?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Huh?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he tell you what you were supposed to do?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Make sure he didn’t get away.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was there some concern that Oswald might try to get away?
Was this actually discussed, the possibility that Oswald might try to
escape?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I don’t know that there was anything actually discussed
about him trying to get away. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But you have the feeling that he might try to break away?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No; I didn’t have a feeling that he would try, but he
just said to stay there with him and make sure he doesn’t.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, did you feel that your reason, your primary reason
for being behind him was to prevent him from getting away rather than
to prevent somebody from getting to him?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Keep him from getting away.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did anybody explain to you before you went downstairs what
the press setup was going to be in the basement?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Well, they explained to me--no; because they told me
what I was supposed to do, and that is all. They didn’t say anything
about the press. I heard the captain say that the big cameras was
supposed to be back behind the rail there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you hear anything said about where news personnel was
supposed to be?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No; I remember they said the news media were down
there. No one was down there except news media and officers.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, do you remember any preparation that you made up in
the office to take Oswald down to the basement?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Uh-huh.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Tell us about that.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Well, he put on a black sweater. I think he changed
shirts, changed shirts, and put on a black sweater. The captain asked
him about something, if he wanted to wear a hat, and he said, “No.”
And, of course, they handcuffed him and handcuffed Leavelle to him.
Now, other than that that is all I remember about it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, as you walked out of the homicide office you went
into the hallway on the third floor?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Uh-huh.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And there were news people out there, or were there?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I don’t recall seeing any out there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Uh-huh. How about TV people? Do you recall seeing any TV
people in the hallway?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Didn’t see any there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. You got in the hallway, then did you turn left?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Turned left; yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And you went to the area where it is sort of a foyer near
the public elevators?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No; a prisoner elevator we went down on.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You walked down the hallway to the left, and then you
turned----
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Went inside the jail elevator door.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. That is only, I guess, about--I guess about 20 foot
from the homicide office to that door, or something like that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have to wait for the elevator?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you do?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I unlocked the door and go inside and locked the door
behind you and--on that particular occasion, I believe the elevator was
waiting on us.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What happened when you got down in the basement?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Well, we got off the elevator and walked around in
front of the booking desk there. You want me to show you?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me get a--I’m going to mark this “Dallas, Texas,
March 24, Detective L. D. Montgomery’s deposition. March 24, 1964,
Exhibit 5004.” Now, I want to show you what has been marked as Exhibit
5004, which is a diagram of the basement area of the Police and Courts
Building. Would you want to explain to us what you did there? Let me
give you this pen.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. This is, of course--it shows the jail elevator. This is
the elevator we came down on.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Came down in the jail elevator.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Uh-huh, and of course, we came on the elevator here and
I was of the first out of the elevator, because I was last, one of the
last on, so, of course, I just stepped back here to the back and waited
for all of them to get out, and when they got out I took my position
right in behind Oswald. Of course, we came around to the left here
[indicating]. Around to this door here [indicating]. Out--went out into
the----
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, let me state for the record that you are indicating
on the map that you walked around in front of the counter of the jail
office.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Uh-huh.
Mr. GRIFFIN. To the jail office doors which lead to the hallway just
before you get to the ramps in the basement.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Uh-huh.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Okay; what happened when you got to that door?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. When we got to the door, Captain Fritz told us to stop.
He was going to check one more time the security.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me interrupt you here. Before you left the homicide
bureau, did anybody notify you that the area was secured?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. The chief--well, they didn’t notify--Captain Fritz told
me that--told all of us that he had been advised that it was secure
down there and they was ready for us to come down.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he tell you who told him that?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No; he didn’t say for sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where was Chief Curry at the time that you people got that
notice up in the homicide bureau, if you know?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Now, I don’t know whether--where he was at. He left
there. He left our office.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long before you got that notice did Chief Curry leave?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. How long before we got the notice did he leave?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Oh, I would say probably 5 or 10 minutes, because I
know after he left they went ahead and put the sweater and shirt on
Oswald and handcuffed him and everything, so, I imagine at least 5 or
10 minutes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you approached the jail office door, what happened?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Captain Fritz stepped out into this door leading out to
the ramp, and, of course, I didn’t--I could not hear who he was talking
to or what he said, but just stepped back and told us, “Come on.”
Mr. GRIFFIN. And then what happened?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Then we walked out the door there to--well, walked
out to where--well, where the shooting happened, and we had to stop,
because our car wasn’t in position.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you actually stop or did you slow up?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No--well, we may have just slowed up, I guess. We just
slowed up because it was only things like just there a second.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, as you slowed up, did you get a look at the news
media?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Didn’t get much of a look at anything.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you able to tell where the TV cameras were located?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. I assume they were over here, because all you could see
was a glare of lights. You couldn’t see anything.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, over to your left as the Main Street ramp comes down,
were you able to tell how many rows deep the newspaper people were?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No; I couldn’t tell about how many rows there were.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right; now, what happened after you slowed up?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Well, can I back up here just a second.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Coming out this door here--[indicating] evidently
several news media over in this area here [indicating].