Mr. DEAN. Well, I would like for the record to show that my visits
while off duty to the Carousel was definitely an exception rather
than rule, and it would usually be when out-of-town people would come
to town, and this, by my working in that area, had gone in there
frequently on duty, I knew--or there had never been any trouble in
there, to my knowledge, as far as fights and such as that. I knew it
was a safe place for an off-duty officer to go, and interesting to
someone that hadn't seen it. So this is the exception that I went
there. I recall now, by reading this investigation by the FBI, that
soon after I had left the basement after this shooting, or left the
immediate area where Oswald was laying, I do recall now asking R. C.
Nelson, that was stationed at that doorway, had he come in that way,
and he then stated he was positive he hadn't. This was reflected in
this--I do remember. I wanted it to show that I do remember now, after
reading that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, let me stop you here, Sergeant.
Mr. DEAN. All right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me direct your attention to one portion of that
report. Have you read that portion of the report which deals with this
lengthy discussion that you and I had about the talk, the one talk you
had with Ruby on the date that Ruby shot Oswald; have you read that
portion of the report?
Mr. DEAN. In the FBI report?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. DEAN. Let's see. I don't recall reading it. You mean now have I
read it?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes. Have you just read it?
Mr. DEAN. No; I haven't read it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you find that, or I can maybe find it for you
quicker, but would you find that portion in there and would you read
that and tell me if that reports everything that you learned from Ruby
at that time?
Mr. DEAN. If it's included in this report [indicating].
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes. And I don't have simply reference to the discussion
about entering the basement, but if it reports everything of importance
that he told you during that interview?
Mr. DEAN. I believe that this February 18 report would--the FBI report
doesn't include--it has the questions that I asked of Ruby and not of
Sorrels, if that's what you mean, it does. But this February 18 report
is what [indicating].
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me hand you, then, what I have marked for
identification as Exhibit 5010. It's a copy of a letter signed by you,
dated February 18, 1964, addressed to Mr. J. E. Curry, chief of police.
Did you prepare that letter?
Mr. DEAN. Yes; I did [indicating].
Mr. GRIFFIN. And let me ask you this, is that a true and accurate copy
of the actual original letter that you sent?
Mr. DEAN. That's a copy I made myself, a Xerox copy [indicating].
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you write that letter on the basis of any notes?
Mr. DEAN. No, sir; from memory.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you prepare any prior reports to the police
department or anybody else, in connection with the events that are
recounted in that February 18th letter, other than the letter dated
November 26, to Chief Curry, which I have marked Exhibit 5009, and this
interview report, which we have designated 5008; are there any other
writings that you prepared prior to February 18?
Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir; there is one report that I had written regarding
the article in the newspaper, that I had seen Ruby come into the
basement.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see.
Mr. DEAN. Do you have that?
Mr. GRIFFIN. I don't know if I have got that or not. Could you get us a
copy of that? I don't know if we have that or not.
Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir; now, I think the FBI made several--or made a report
of that, also. The investigation about the department there, I don't
know----
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, I know they made an investigation of it, and I don't
have the actual copy of the report. I have got the results of their
investigation but not the report.
Mr. DEAN. I see.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Other than that report on the newspaper article
and these two other exhibits that I have referred to, are there any
other writings that you made that relate to the subject matters as
recounted in this February 18----
Mr. DEAN. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Letter. Now, how did you come to write this letter of
February 18, 1964?
Mr. DEAN. Chief Stevenson called me, while I was in the office on that
date, and asked me to come up to see him, and I did. And he asked me
was I present during the entire interview with Ruby and Mr. Sorrels. I
told him I was. And he asked me did I remember most of the interview;
could I recollect most of the interview and the answers that Ruby had
given and I said, "Yes, sir." Then he advised me to make a report of
it, asked me would I make a report of it, recalling everything that
I could of that interview. To the best of my knowledge, that's all I
could remember. And I did testify to all this stuff in the trial.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is this the first time that you told anyone that Ruby had
told Sorrels that he thought about killing Oswald two nights prior when
he saw him in the showup room?
Mr. DEAN. Well, I don't recall telling it to any particular person. I
knew that this would probably be later used as testimony, I felt, since
it was--did make an impression on me, that I could remember it, and
it's written as I do remember, just about as it happened, it correlates
pretty well, even though we didn't get together with Mr. Sorrels'
report.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But you can't remember?
Mr. DEAN. Talking to anyone especially or specifically about what Ruby
had told me, other than how he got into the basement and how long he
had been there; no, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Or of any particular reference to the statement that Ruby
made to Sorrels that you have reported in here, about thinking about
killing Oswald two nights before; you can't remember that you ever----
Mr. DEAN. No, sir; I did feel at the time that I would probably testify
to this in court. I did witness Mr. Sorrels taking his notes, and I
felt if I had to, since I did witness it, I could use the notes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, I think there is one other exhibit that I haven't
identified. We have talked about it, and that's Exhibit 5009, which
is a copy of a letter which purports to have been prepared by you,
addressed to Chief Curry, dated November 26, 1963.
Would you look at Exhibit 5009 [indicating]?
Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir; that's my report [indicating].
Mr. GRIFFIN. And you have read that over many times, have you not?
Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir; would you like for me to sign it?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir; I would like for you to sign both 5008 and 5009.
Mr. DEAN. All right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are there any additions or corrections you wanted to make
to that?
Mr. DEAN. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Put a date by that, by your signature also, if you will
[indicating].
Mr. DEAN. All right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And let me hand you 5010, and ask you to sign that and
date it [indicating].
Mr. DEAN. It's been signed--of course, this is a Xerox copy. Do you
want me to go ahead and sign it again?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. DEAN. All right [indicating].
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you take this one here, Exhibit 5008, and would you
sign that and date it [indicating]?
Mr. DEAN. Where [indicating]?
Mr. GRIFFIN. On the front page, I think probably is just as well
[indicating]. Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. GRIFFIN. Sergeant, you and I have been talking here off the record
for--I don't have a watch, but I would guess for 15 or 20 minutes,
with respect to other matters, and you indicated to me just before we
brought the court reporter in, that you had obtained some information
that apparently had not been previously made available to the
Commission, and I wonder if you could tell us what that is?
Mr. DEAN. It was relative to a telephone call that I received last
night at about 2 o'clock in the morning. I didn't mark the time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where were you?
Mr. DEAN. At city hall. In the office there. The city hall operator had
called me and told me that she had a man, or an operator on the line
from Victoria, British Columbia, in Canada, and that she had been--this
operator had told her she had been talking to a man in Victoria about
some films that he had of the assassination, and asked me did I want to
take the call, and it wasn't--it was a collect call, and the operator
said that she couldn't unless it was by my authorization, but she did
tell me she heard this man talk enough that she believed he was serious
and had something that possibly could be used by the Warren Commission.
And, of course, I heard some of the conversation, and the man
sounded rational, and the operator in Victoria, her name was Bernice
Williamson, she is the night supervisor of the B.C. Telephone Company,
said that she had talked to this man long enough that she thought he
probably had something. And so I accepted the call. This man's name was
Ralph Simpson. He was calling from 384-3780, and he told me that he had
been standing on the southern part of the plaza when the assassination
took place, and he had a wide scope movie camera that he believed would
have taken in the building and the motorcade at the time the shots were
fired; that he had talked it over with his attorney--and the name of
the attorney was Batter [spelling] B-a-t-t-e-r, is what I got, and that
Batter advised him to call someone here, but not the Warren Commission.
And he asked me--when I accepted the call, he asked me what I would
suggest, and I told him that first he should mail them to the Warren
Commission. And then he asked me had I been to the Warren Commission.
He recognized my name, that I had been testifying, and I said, "Yes;
and I am scheduled to go back tomorrow night." And he said, "Well, I
will send the films to you. They haven't been--". Well, he said they
hadn't been developed, and he wasn't going to have them developed,
that he would send them to me airmail. This was about 2 o'clock in the
night--on the morning of the 24th, this morning [indicating].
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. You have in front of you, Sergeant, a piece of
paper?