Mr. DEAN. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did any TV cables come through that Commerce Street
entrance?
Mr. DEAN. I don't recall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, what did you do when you got inside?
Mr. DEAN. I went immediately to the basement, changed clothes into my
uniform and then went to the second floor, which is patrol captain's
office, where I report for duty.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who did you report to there?
Mr. DEAN. Captain Talbert.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And did you have a conversation with Talbert at that time?
Mr. DEAN. Nothing specific; no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Talbert give you an assignment at that time?
Mr. DEAN. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Talbert talk to you in anyway about the movement of
Oswald at that time?
Mr. DEAN. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you learn somewhere after you arrived at work
that someone had made a telephone call in connection with the movement
of Oswald, threatening Oswald's life?
Mr. DEAN. Yes; did I learn of a telephone call?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. DEAN. I heard Captain Frazier, I believe it was, talking to Captain
Talbert, and in my presence, and several others. I don't remember which
ones, sergeants and a lieutenant or so, that I believe it was Sheriff
Decker called during the night and asked that Oswald be moved during
the night sometime.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When did this conversation take place; how soon after you
came to work?
Mr. DEAN. It was some time--probably it would have been a little before
7 o'clock, because we meet downstairs at 7 o'clock sharp.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see.
Mr. DEAN. In the detail room.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So this would have been almost within a few minutes of the
time that you had walked in?
Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, were Talbert and Frazier--and who else was present
during the conversation?
Mr. DEAN. I believe Lieutenant Pierce was there, myself and Sergeant
Putnam might have been there. Several other sergeants. See, this is the
change time and all of his supervisors, Captain Frazier's and Captain
Talbert's, the ones that are working that day, they will generally be
in the office at that time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. GRIFFIN. Could you tell me where we were?
(The record was here read by the reporter.)
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember any other things that were said? Try to
think about what these people said when this topic was brought up.
Mr. DEAN. Captain Frazier said something to the effect that he had
called Captain Fritz when Sheriff Decker called to request the movement
of Oswald, and Captain Fritz stated that he didn't think that Chief
Curry wanted him moved during the night, that it was--he would be moved
some time this day, that day, rather than in the night. It would be
this day. That's where I got it that he was to be moved on the 24th.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, I take it that this was sort of changing of the
guard at this point, and Frazier was going off duty and he was sort of
passing on the word to Talbert?
Mr. DEAN. Right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did Talbert say in response to that information?
Mr. DEAN. I don't remember. The thing that I got, or impression that
I got, was that they were just waiting for Chief Curry to say to
move him, until they had proper authorization to move him, from our
department rather than from the sheriff.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Rio Pierce present at that time?
Mr. DEAN. I think that he was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And it is my understanding of this situation that you
had there at that time is Captain Talbert, Lieutenant Pierce and the
sergeants that were all under them, kind of a general briefing?
Mr. DEAN. That's correct.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did Talbert then discuss this matter with you people
who were on his shift?
Mr. DEAN. Not at this time. We went back downstairs to the basement
to the whole detail. This is to assign the patrolmen out on their
tour of duty, to brief them of the new orders, if there had been any,
and generally to get the men out in the field in the squad cars. This
happens at 7 o'clock.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you send all the men out that you normally would
send out?
Mr. DEAN. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. At that time?
Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir; with some few that we would use, the ones of which
I can't recall. I imagine it would have been equivalent to three or
four men that we would have kept in the city hall itself.
Mr. GRIFFIN. At that time did you have any thought of how you would
assemble the necessary men to handle the transfer?
Mr. DEAN. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, after you had this initial meeting with Talbert, what
did you do?
Mr. DEAN. Now, you are referring to after the detail?
Mr. GRIFFIN. After you assigned these men, and what you called the
general orders?
Mr. DEAN. We went back to the second floor, back to Captain Talbert's
office, which is the general offices for the patrol division.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What happened up there?
Mr. DEAN. Well, I don't remember anything specific until about--I,
myself, went to the third floor to familiarize myself with the
happenings, about the news cameramen and just to get an idea of what
was going on and who was to be present, such as that, because I had
been off. This was my first day back since--in a week, in fact. I had
been on a few days vacation to go hunting.
Mr. GRIFFIN. At the time you went up to the third floor, did you have
any idea as to what your general responsibilities were going to be for
the day?
Mr. DEAN. No, sir; not at that time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I think I am misleading you. First of all, you have some
general responsibility, standard responsibilities that you have every
day?
Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What are those particular responsibilities?
Mr. DEAN. Well, I am assigned to a zone area that has a group of 6
squads that work for me, equivalent to 15 men.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What zone is that?
Mr. DEAN. No. 110. It's in the eastern portion of Dallas.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that the Love Field area?
Mr. DEAN. No, sir; this is the--Love Field area is north Dallas. I am
in the eastern portion of Dallas.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. And do you normally handle most of your duties from
right within the police station?
Mr. DEAN. No, sir: I have various paperwork to do in the office at
times. Generally I am out in the car, answering calls with the squads,
or when they need advice, supervision, well, I generally answer their
calls.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Now, when you met with Talbert the second time
upon the second floor, did you have any idea at that time that your
duties would be any different on Sunday than they were on any other
date?
Mr. DEAN. I assumed that I would probably confine myself to the city
hall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you happen to make that assumption?
Mr. DEAN. Well, because of my seniority. It was just assumed that they
would want me there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, so you went up to the third floor then?
Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And who did you talk to and who did you see up there on
the third floor?
Mr. DEAN. No one in particular. I just went up to see what was going
on on the third floor. This is the first time I had been to the third
floor. There were numerous cameras there, lot of cables. Just as you
get off the elevator there was a lot of cameras.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What time would you estimate that you were up on the third
floor?
Mr. DEAN. Probably 8 o'clock.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you go up to the third floor again during the morning;
that is between that time and the time that Oswald was shot, did you
have occasion to go back to the third floor?
Mr. DEAN. I believe I did, but for no specific purpose.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, if you can separate out the different times that you
might have been up there, I want to know as best you recall whether
there were news people up there on the third floor when you went up
this first time, around--what did you say, 8 o'clock?
Mr. DEAN. Yes. Were there news people up there?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see newspaper people up there at that time?
Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall whether the TV cameras were manned at that
time?
Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall whether these people seemed to be operating
the cameras, shooting footage or did they seem to be in any sort of
operation?
Mr. DEAN. They did have a monitor, small monitor set that they had the
cameras on. However, they weren't broadcasting at the time. They might
have been taping. I don't know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see any other people that you thought were newsmen
up there, other than those manning the cameras?
Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir. Pressmen. Newspaper people, none of which I can
recall that I knew myself.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What's your best estimate of the number of news people
that were up there at about 8 o'clock?
Mr. DEAN. Twenty-five, possibly.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did this create to you what appeared to be a crowded
condition?
Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, how long did you remain up there on the third floor?
Mr. DEAN. Oh, maybe 10 or 15 minutes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And do you recall if you went into the homicide bureau?
Mr. DEAN. Sometime during that morning I did step into the homicide
bureau. However, I don't know who I talked to. And then there wasn't
any specific reason that I did go in there. I just stepped in. The
hall was very crowded. It might have been just that I was close to the
homicide office and I stepped in there to get out of the crowd, because
it was the least congested. There were no newsmen or pressmen in there,
no cameras.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you able to tell, when you were up there at about 8
o'clock, what the general impression seemed to be as to when Oswald
would be moved?
Mr. DEAN. The impression I got, there was anticipation from the newsmen
that--and the hopes of the newsmen, that he would probably be moved
that day.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But as to how early in the day, did you get any idea of
what they were thinking of?
Mr. DEAN. No, sir. This was at anytime. This was the impression I got,
at anytime he could be moved. They were ready to start shooting, or go
live television, I am sure, at anytime, at a moment's notice.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did they ask you any particular questions?
Mr. DEAN. None specific; no, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did they attempt to approach you or shout things at you?
Mr. DEAN. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember any other bureaus you went in on the third
floor?
Mr. DEAN. That was all.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, where did you go from the third floor?
Mr. DEAN. Went back down to the second floor.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And who did you see down there?
Mr. DEAN. Captain Talbert, Lieutenant Pierce.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember any conversation you had with them?
Mr. DEAN. Well, general conversation that morning was when possibly
Oswald might be moved. Of course, I was waiting for instructions as to
what to do when he was moved. I received my first instructions about 9
o'clock.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who did you receive those instructions from?
Mr. DEAN. From Lieutenant Pierce.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And do you know who Lieutenant Pierce received his
instructions from?
Mr. DEAN. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did Pierce tell you?
Mr. DEAN. His instructions were for me to take a group of men and--or
whatever men I needed, and thoroughly search the garage portion of the
basement, to vacate it and then thoroughly search it. I----
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you--go ahead.
Mr. DEAN. I took about 13 reserve officers that were waiting in the
assembly room, which is on the ground floor, the basement floor, along
with Sergeant Putnam, Officer L. E. Jez, and A. R. Brock, and these 13
reserves that were in the detail room at that time, names of which I
don't know. They were commanded by Captain Arnett. I do know this. And
Captain Arnett assisted in the search, too. We vacated the basement of
all people.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Are you talking about just the garage area or
the entire basement?
Mr. DEAN. The garage area. And I assigned Officer R. E. Vaughn to the
entrance ramp, which is entering on Main Street, Officer R. C. Nelson
to the doorway coming from the police and court building and into the
basement, and Officer B. G. Patterson the Commerce Street ramp, which
is the exit, and I assigned one reserve officer to the southern portion
of the basement, to the stairways that lead into the subbasement or the
machine room.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, the regular officers that you assigned were Vaughn,
Nelson, and Patterson, is that right?
Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were any of those men members of your platoon?
Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir; all of them.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did they happen to be in the building at that time?
Mr. DEAN. I believe they were the officers that we retained that
morning to assist us for whatever might have to be done in the morning,
or during the day.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did they normally have assignments in patrol cars some
place?
Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir; all of them.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who made the decision to keep those men in?
Mr. DEAN. I would imagine Lieutenant Pierce. To retain them at city
hall during the day?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. DEAN. I imagine Lieutenant Pierce did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can I ask you directly, you did not, if I understand
correctly, you did not make that decision?
Mr. DEAN. To retain them at the city hall?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. DEAN. No, sir; they were there and I utilized them for this purpose.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, were there other people who were retained at city
hall besides those three men in the platoon?
Mr. DEAN. There were other men that were called back in from patrol
duty to supplement what men we had at the central headquarters.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But these were the only three men who actually stayed back
and never went out to the field at all?
Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Any particular reason that you can think of why those
three men should have been kept there?
Mr. DEAN. No, sir; other than just assignment, routine assignment. I
mean it could have been someone else as well as it was them.