Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, at the time you were placed there, had the search of
the basement commenced?
Mr. WORLEY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. At the time you were placed there, were any other reserve
officers stationed at any other spots in the basement?
Mr. WORLEY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you remain there during the search?
Mr. WORLEY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall, and I am only asking for your recollection,
and if you don't remember, state that, do you recall seeing anybody
come over to this area marked stairs up and do anything there?
Mr. WORLEY. There was a telephone man tried to go out that stairway,
and I happened to know the telephone man. I don't know what his name
is, but he comes to our building frequently and works, is the reason I
recognized him. And he tried to get out this door, and he was stopped
by a regular officer and asked for his credentials.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And then was he allowed to go out that door?
Mr. WORLEY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. About what time was that?
Mr. WORLEY. About 10 o'clock.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you observe anybody lock that door? I am asking for
your recollection?
Mr. WORLEY. No; I didn't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me ask you this: Did you watch the search of the
basement?
Mr. WORLEY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you watch anybody search over in this area by the
elevators and the stairs?
Mr. WORLEY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you see them do? Who did you see search over in
that area, if you recall?
Mr. WORLEY. I don't recall any of the officers names.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall his rank?
Mr. WORLEY. I am not sure, but I think it was a sergeant, regular
officer.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was he a regular sergeant?
Mr. WORLEY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was anybody else with him, if you recall?
Mr. WORLEY. I don't believe so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, could you tell us what he did over in that area?
Mr. WORLEY. Well, these elevator doors were closed.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. WORLEY. And he checked the door to see if it was locked, and it
was. He couldn't even go out. He couldn't open the door.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he have anybody with him at the time that he checked
that door?
Mr. WORLEY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, do you have a clear recollection of this?
Mr. WORLEY. That is hard to say.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You know sometimes we have a visual image, and sometimes
there is something that happened or for some reason that you know you
watched this. Is there anything----
Mr. WORLEY. Well, there was people that they brought in a bunch of
reserve officers in the basement from the detail room, and they came
out in here and they started back in here.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You are now sort of indicating back in the area toward
Main Street underneath the sidewalk?
Mr. WORLEY. And he searched all these cars back in here to see that, I
guess, that there was nobody in there. They didn't tell me, but they
were searching back in here, and he just covered this back all the way
to the ramp here. Then they went right on around and covered the whole
parking area down in the basement back to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Now, those people were sort of moving in a
group?
Mr. WORLEY. Right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, when this regular sergeant got over to the doorway,
was that group with him?
Mr. WORLEY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Or was he alone?
Mr. WORLEY. No. I am almost positive that he was over here while they
were searching back over here, and he was by himself.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. Now, do you recall this particular officer going to
the service elevator?
Mr. WORLEY. No; I don't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall if at any time there was somebody in that
service elevator?
Mr. WORLEY. No; I don't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall seeing any building personnel down in the
basement?
Mr. WORLEY. Yes; I do. Porters. And I don't recall how many. I saw some
porters and maids, and I am pretty sure that they were on this elevator.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Service elevator?
Mr. WORLEY. Yes; it was standing there with the door open, and somebody
told them to go on up in the building, and close that elevator off.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, do you recall when that was in relationship to the
search of the basement?
Mr. WORLEY. It was before they searched the basement.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall who that officer was that did that?
Mr. WORLEY. No; I don't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Would you be able to state whether it was that
officer who talked to those maids and porters? Was it the same officer,
the same sergeant who also checked this door?
Mr. WORLEY. There was none.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You think you would recognize either one of those officers
if you saw them again?
Mr. WORLEY. No; I don't think so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is there anything that makes you, in your mind, convinced
about one sergeant than the other officer who checked the service
elevator?
Mr. WORLEY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. So, are you able to explain for the record--I am
not trying to trip you up or anything--I am trying to probe your
recollection here--are you able to explain to us how it is that you
recall that they were different officers?
Mr. WORLEY. No; I am not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Different heights?
Mr. WORLEY. No; there is nothing that would be--maybe I am thinking
that they were even the same person, or different people.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And in other words, your answer is that you just don't
know if they were the same?
Mr. WORLEY. I don't know. It could have been the same person or could
have been two different people.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right, now. Do you recall ever seeing anybody go over
into this area that is marked, where it says "To engineroom", and check
anything over in that area?
Mr. WORLEY. I saw them search over that way but from where I was, I
couldn't tell whether they were back in here or not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. After the search was over, do you recall if any other
officers were stationed down in the basement?
Mr. WORLEY. Yes. There were some more reserve officers down in the
basement stationed there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you mark where the reserves were? Why don't you put
a "R" and a circle around it where there was a reserve.
Mr. WORLEY. This is Lt. Ben McCoy, reserve officer. I stationed him
there myself.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did you station him? Why don't you write "McCoy"
under his name then?
Mr. WORLEY. Yes. Captain Arnett was over here [indicating].
Mr. GRIFFIN. Put an "A" in front of the circle. All right, now, any
other reserve officers that you recall?
Mr. WORLEY. There was a reserve officer down here, and I don't know his
name.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Put an "R" there and question mark under it. Were there
any regular officers stationed any place in the basement?
Mr. WORLEY. There was a regular sergeant right here for quite awhile. I
couldn't say approximately how long.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was he there a half hour before Oswald was shot?
Mr. WORLEY. Oh, yes; I would say it was about maybe an hour or before.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I don't mean for what length of time, but when did he
leave that spot?
Mr. WORLEY. About an hour. I would say an hour before Oswald was shot.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall any officers being stationed by the
elevators?
Mr. WORLEY. Yes; there was a regular officer there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Why don't you put a circle there and write "regular" under
it where that man was? Now, do you recall any other regular officer?
Mr. WORLEY. No; I don't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And the time that you left, that was sometime after the
armored car arrived?
Mr. WORLEY. Right. The armored car was backed into this ramp.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Commerce Street ramp. Do you recall whether or not any of
these men had been moved?
Mr. WORLEY. No; I don't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you have any recollection of seeing any of these
particular men in the basement at the time Lieutenant McCoy reassigned
you?
Mr. WORLEY. Yes. Captain Arnett and Lieutenant McCoy and this officer
were in the basement when I left.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about this officer up here?
Mr. WORLEY. I couldn't say.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You went to the corner of Commerce and Central Expressway?
Mr. WORLEY. The next block down. This is Central Expressway, and the
next block is north, northbound.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you walk out?
Mr. WORLEY. Went up the south ramp by the armored car, sitting right
here. And I went on this side of it, which would be--I am trying to
place that. That would be east side of the armored car. Walked down the
sidewalk two blocks to the corner of Commerce and Central Expressway,
northbound.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you recognize Jack Ruby if you saw him?
Mr. WORLEY. Now?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you recognize him then?
Mr. WORLEY. Right now?
Mr. GRIFFIN. No; at the time you walked down that street, would you
have recognized him if you had seen him?
Mr. WORLEY. I don't believe I would. The only time that I had ever
seen the man was when I was working with squad 105, and we made the
place that he owned down there. We just made a frequent call, or just
stopped in there to see if there was any trouble or anything, and then
went on.
I met him one night, and I had seen him when I was in there. But those
places are kind of dimly lit and you don't see too much in them, and
really and truly, I didn't pay too much attention to meeting him anyway.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, do you recall if any time after the armored car
arrived any automobile came in or out of the basement area after the
armored car arrived?
Mr. WORLEY. No; I don't believe so. I don't believe a car came down the
ramp after that armored car was backed in there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see any cars drive out of the basement after the
armored car came down?
Mr. WORLEY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you see any television cameras in any area of the
basement after the armored car arrived?
Mr. WORLEY. There were television cameras in the basement before that
armored car arrived.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. As you walked up the Commerce Street ramp,
where did you see television cameras?
Mr. WORLEY. When I was assigned to the basement, in these first two
stalls right here, they were putting these cameras up right behind.
There is a rail that runs right along there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you mark the spot where the TV cameras were? Why
don't you put a box?
Mr. WORLEY. Two cameras. Two or three. There was so much confusion down
there that day.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you walked out to go up the Commerce Street ramp, do
you recall what television cameras you saw?
Mr. WORLEY. Down in the basement?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. WORLEY. These two cameras that were here, that had been there all
the time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall seeing any other TV cameras as you walked
out? Did you see any up here by the armored car?
Mr. WORLEY. I don't recall of seeing any.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right, did you see any down on the ramp or in the
garage area, or up on this ramp?
Mr. WORLEY. No; I didn't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now you indicate in here that, in your letter or statement
of November 30, that you saw from your position a man jump over the
railing, saw a man come down the north ramp, which would be the Main
Street ramp, and jump over the railing in the parking area, is that
right?
Mr. WORLEY. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long was that before you left the basement, would you
say?
Mr. WORLEY. Hour or hour and a half.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you have any thought that that man was Jack Ruby?
Mr. WORLEY. It wasn't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, between the time--I notice this is the second report,
letter--that was you got this letter of November 30?
Mr. WORLEY. Yes; I was interviewed by these two special service
officers, and they took this statement.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you come to describe that man? How did that come
about? Did they ask you if you saw anybody jump over a railing, or
anything like that?
Mr. WORLEY. Yes; they did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, prior to the time that you prepared this letter of
November 30, had you talked with anybody about having seen this man
jump over the railing?
Mr. WORLEY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I want you to think carefully. After the time, did you
hear anybody else say--prior to the time you drafted the letter, that
he saw a man jump over the railing?
Mr. WORLEY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you get any indication from Lieutenants Cornwall and
Revill as to how they came to inquire about that particular man?
Mr. WORLEY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Or about a man jumping over the railing?
Mr. WORLEY. All they did is ask me if I saw anybody come down that ramp
in particular. And I stated that I had seen that man come down and
jump over that rail there in the basement, and he was challenged by an
officer and he identified himself and the officer let him go on.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, let me understand this then, I think your answer to
me initially was that these two lieutenants asked you specifically if
you saw a man jump over the railing?
Mr. WORLEY. No; asked me if I saw anybody come down the ramp.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see.
Mr. WORLEY. And then I told them about the incident of the man jumping
over the rail.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you interviewed in a room with other officers when
Lieutenants Cornwall and Revill conducted this interview? Had a number
of reserve officers been assembled together and they talked with them?
Mr. WORLEY. No; I was told to report to that special service office at
a certain time, and there was one other officer in the room when I came
in.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who was that officer?
Mr. WORLEY. Lt. Ben McCoy.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was he interviewed before you or after you?
Mr. WORLEY. He was just fixing to leave.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have any conversation with him?
Mr. WORLEY. Spoke to him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you mention anything about this man to him?
Mr. WORLEY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. About the man coming down the ramp?
Mr. WORLEY. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you finished with the interview, do you remember who
the next man was behind you?
Mr. WORLEY. No; I don't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall what time in the morning, day or night, your
interview was with Revill?
Mr. WORLEY. It was, oh, I believe, November 30 was on a Saturday that I
came up there. It was a Saturday, because I was off. I was at home, and
I came up there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was that in the morning or afternoon?
Mr. WORLEY. It was in the morning.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall whether they had interviewed reserve
officers, had set up appointments for reserve officers prior to
Saturday?
Mr. WORLEY. I don't know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know the name of each reserve officer over here?
Mr. WORLEY. No; I sure don't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you seen that reserve officer since the time Oswald
was shot by Ruby?
Mr. WORLEY. No; I wouldn't recognize him if I saw him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You wouldn't recognize him again when you saw him? I am
talking about the reserve officer about whom you have placed a question
mark on the chart. Do you have anything further that you want to tell
the Commission that you think might be of any use to them?
Mr. WORLEY. I don't know of anything else that I could add to it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, let me ask you this: Have you been interviewed by any
member of the Commission staff prior to this deposition?
Mr. WORLEY. No; I haven't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I will make this one last general request. If anything
comes to your attention which you believe could be of assistance to the
Commission would you come forward with it, regardless of what your
personal feelings may be and so forth?
Mr. WORLEY. Yes; I would.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I will appreciate that.
Mr. WORLEY. I sure would.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Okay.
Mr. WORLEY. Glad I met you.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Nice to have met you. [Add this to Worley]:
After Mr. Worley left, I realized that I neglected to get him to sign
the chart that we had been using to explain the various positions
in the basement, and the court reporter says that was because I was
hurried. And I notice in looking at this I also neglected even when I
corrected this afterward to write after Mr. Worley the date, so I will
write that in now. 3-26-64. And I wrote that in a space between the
word Mr. Worley and an exhibit number which I had already put on there,
Exhibit 5050.