Mr. HUBERT. The relation of it as to time of the shooting, except that
it couldn't have been when you weren't there, obviously.
Mr. NEWMAN. That's right.
Mr. HUBERT. You remember how the man was dressed?
Mr. NEWMAN. No.
Mr. HUBERT. I'll ask you this, too: Do you know whether it was, or was
not, or do you have any opinion on whether it was or was not Jack Ruby,
or do you have any opinion as to who it was at all?
Mr. NEWMAN. I have no opinion whatsoever. I would like to say in
that, since we are talking about this incident, that when I talked to
Detective Westphal--was it?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes, sir.
Mr. NEWMAN. Lieutenant Revill was out of town. He didn't indicate to me
that he placed any importance on it whatsoever. I was not aware of the
fact that he had even written a memo on it. Mr. Griffin, last night,
did not bring it up, and I, after talking to him, dropped the subject.
Didn't see fit to bring it up, or didn't even remember it.
Mr. HUBERT. What is this undated statement which we have identified as
5038-A, the one that is also unsigned? Do you know anything about that
at all?
Mr. NEWMAN. I don't know. I would guess probably that information was
taken down at the time I talked to him on the telephone. That is, by
and large, the statement I made to him.
Mr. HUBERT. You had called him on the telephone as indicated, in fact,
by Exhibit 5038-B, when Westphal reports on it, says, "Subject." That
means you, "called this date." Did he ask you when--in other words, he
left a call for you, is that correct?
Mr. NEWMAN. Now, I called him.
Mr. HUBERT. You called him to tell him what?
Mr. NEWMAN. Just to give him that information that I had remembered
since I talked to him the previous time, because at the time he seemed
to think it was fairly important.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, did you go out to Parkland Hospital?
Mr. NEWMAN. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you speak to a man, reserve officer by the name of
Holly?
Mr. NEWMAN. I don't recall. I spoke to several reserve officers. I
can't recall any of them as to who they were.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you remember telling anyone of them about having seen
either of these two men that we just talked about, that is to say, the
man coming down the rail, or coming down the ramp, or the man coming
over the rail?
Mr. NEWMAN. No, at the time I didn't even recall placing any
significance on the fact, because at the time I didn't even know what
had happened.
Mr. HUBERT. You don't recall talking to anybody about either of these
two episodes, the man going down the ramp and the man jumping over the
rail while you were at Parkland that day?
Mr. NEWMAN. No, I didn't.
Mr. HUBERT. I gather from your statement, but I think I had better
get it exactly straight, that you did not do anything with respect to
either of the two men?
Mr. NEWMAN. No, I had no contact with them.
Mr. HUBERT. I didn't mean that contact, so much as I meant taking some
police action.
Mr. NEWMAN. No, that is what I meant too.
Mr. HUBERT. All right. Do you know an officer by the name of Brock?
Reserve officer, I believe.
Mr. NEWMAN. No, I don't. I don't recognize the name.
Mr. HUBERT. And one by the name of Worley?
Mr. NEWMAN. No, I don't recognize that name either. I might know him on
sight if I see him.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, have you any other comments to make? I think the
thing is clarified.
Mr. NEWMAN. No, we had our misunderstanding last night. I didn't know
what needed to be clarified. I know I was thoroughly shaky and possibly
not too accurate as to the details of what happened in that basement
prior to the shooting in the hour or hour and a half, but that wasn't
my concern, and I didn't pay too much attention. I just gave it as best
I remembered.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, I wasn't at the deposition last night, so I don't
know what went on, and I, therefore, will not ask you any further
questions.
Have you had any interview with me prior to taking of this deposition
today?
Mr. NEWMAN. No.
Mr. HUBERT. All right. I think that is all. Thank you for coming very
much.
Mr. NEWMAN. I do have one other thing here that Mr. Griffin seemed to
be concerned about last night, in that I couldn't identify a man, a
reserve officer I had met in the basement of the garage, or immediately
after I got there by name. That that you are holding is a class picture
that was made. I can now identify--I have a list of names in my pocket
if you want them.
Mr. HUBERT. The only way for it to be of the use would be if you would
let me mark the picture and put it in the record.
Mr. NEWMAN. You may have it if you like. I don't know whether it is of
any importance or not.
Mr. HUBERT. I don't either, but--do you want it to go in?
Mr. NEWMAN. Not necessarily. I am leaving it up to you.
Mr. HUBERT. As I say, I don't know what the question was last night
about identification, and you have brought this matter up; I am
perfectly willing to hear what you have to say about it. I think it
would be better, if you comment about it, to put it in the record, but
on the other hand maybe it wouldn't be necessary. Why don't you say
what you have to say about it and then we can judge better?
Mr. NEWMAN. As near as I can recall, when he was questioning me about
what officers I had seen in the basement that morning whom I knew, and
the subject came up that I had seen one man but I could not remember
his name. He asked me at that time for a description of him and I gave
it to him. After looking at that picture last night when I got home,
and with the list of names I had for the picture, I can now give the
man's name, if you would like it.
Mr. HUBERT. Yes; go ahead.
Mr. NEWMAN. Third from the left--second from the left on the back row.
Casten, Jerome Casten.
Mr. HUBERT. Jerome Casten. Now, that was the reserve officer that Mr.
Griffin was questioning you about last night, and, as I understand it,
you testified that you did remember seeing a man, and you gave his
description, but at that time you did not know his name?
Mr. NEWMAN. That's correct.
Mr. HUBERT. With the aid of this picture, which as I understand, is a
class picture--I see Captain Solomon there, by the way--you identified
him as the second man in the top row from the left, and you stated his
name to be----
Mr. NEWMAN. Jerome Casten.
Mr. HUBERT. Jerome Casten. I think it would be better if you would
allow this to go in. I am, therefore, marking the picture on the
reverse side thereof by placing the following on it, to wit: "Dallas,
Texas, March 26, 1964. Exhibit 5038-E, deposition of W. J. Newman."
Then I am signing my name below that, I am placing an "X" over the man
you have identified, and placing my initials next to the "X"; is that
correct, sir?
Mr. NEWMAN. That's right. I don't remember seeing that man throughout
the rest of the day, and to the best of my knowledge he was assigned
somewhere other than the basement quite sometime prior to the shooting.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, in order that the record may show that we were both
talking about the same document all the time, I wonder if you would
mind placing your name below mine on each one of these?
Mr. NEWMAN. All right, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Thank you very much.