Mr. HUBERT. Straight ahead?
Sergeant MAXEY. Almost straight ahead.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, when you got to the top of the ramp, did the car
stop?
Sergeant MAXEY. I believe there was a momentary hesitation. I don't
recall how long.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see Officer Vaughn?
Sergeant MAXEY. I didn't pay any attention to him on the way out. Now,
on the way in, yes.
Mr. HUBERT. That is to say when you were coming at 11 o'clock, you saw
him?
Sergeant MAXEY. Yes, sir. I didn't pay any attention to him on the way
out, as I say, I was looking across the street.
Mr. HUBERT. You don't recall having seen him at all?
Sergeant MAXEY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you look to your right down Main Street in the
direction of Pearl?
Sergeant MAXEY. I don't believe so. I don't remember if I did.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you look to your left down Main Street in the direction
of Harwood?
Sergeant MAXEY. I don't believe so.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, your position is you didn't look either way?
Sergeant MAXEY. I don't believe I did.
Mr. HUBERT. Therefore, you didn't see anybody on either side?
Sergeant MAXEY. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, when you got around to the Commerce Street side had
the shooting already taken place?
Sergeant MAXEY. Yes, sir; I suppose it had, because as
we--correction--as the Lieutenant backed our car into position in front
of the armored car, I heard the dispatcher call an ambulance code 3, to
the basement and officers were rushing around, covering exits to the
city hall, so apparently it happened just before we arrived. That had
given them time to call the dispatcher by phone for an ambulance, would
be my guess that we were on Harwood Street at the time that it happened.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have any further connection with the event?
Sergeant MAXEY. We went to Parkland. Lieutenant Pierce, Sergeant
Putnam, and I went to Parkland Hospital and set up security out there.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you talk with Jack Ruby at anytime?
Sergeant MAXEY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know the man?
Sergeant MAXEY. I know him slightly. I know him by sight.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see him in the ramp at anytime while you were
driving up?
Sergeant MAXEY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see him at anytime that day at all, at any place?
Sergeant MAXEY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, I am marking now three documents as indicated. This
is a document, apparently a letter dated November 26, 1963, addressed
to Chief J. E. Curry, the original of which is signed by you, and two
pages. I am marking the first page, "Dallas, Texas, Exhibit--March 25,
1964, Exhibit 5094, from the deposition of B. J. Maxey," and signing
my name below that on the first page, and I am putting my initials
on the lower right-hand corner of the second page and I'll ask you to
be reading that while I mark the second document, which is a report
of an FBI interview of December 6, 1963, taken of you by FBI Agents
Quigley and Dallman and I am marking that document, "Dallas, Texas,
March 25, 1964, Exhibit No. 5095. Deposition of B. J. Maxey." I am
signing my name, Leon D. Hubert underneath, and marking the second page
of that document by my initial in the lower right-hand corner. The
third document, I am marking in the margin, right-hand margin, "Dallas,
Texas, March 25, 1964. Exhibit 5096. Deposition of B. J. Maxey," and
signing my name Leon D. Hubert, Jr. I am marking the second page of
that document with my initials in the lower right-hand corner, and the
third page with my initials in the lower right-hand corner. I will ask
you to read these two documents likewise, and I wish to ask you some
questions about them.
Sergeant MAXEY. As far as the report here written to the chief, I would
say that it is accurate at the time that I wrote it, and I am willing
to sign it as is, and I--what page was it you wanted me to sign here?
Mr. HUBERT. Just under my name.
Sergeant MAXEY. All right.
Mr. HUBERT. Initial the second page.
Sergeant MAXEY. All right.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, now, you can turn to the next exhibit, which
is----
Sergeant MAXEY. The FBI report. There are two of them there. I believe
both of them are the same, aren't they? Wait a minute. One of them
might possibly be a supplement.
Mr. HUBERT. No; they are different. One is on the 2d of December and
the other is on the 6th, so, you'd better separate them. Do you have
any comments to make on them?
Sergeant MAXEY. One of the things that I was going to bring up here,
changes has been made in this one already, this second one.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, let's see, we are talking about Exhibit 5095.
Sergeant MAXEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. What comment do you wish to make?
Sergeant MAXEY. In the first report it was stated in there that the FBI
report of December 3, I believe----
Mr. HUBERT. 2d.
Sergeant MAXEY. 2d?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Sergeant MAXEY. And the report of December 2, Exhibit 5096, it was
stated that I saw ex-police officer Daniels and shoeshine boy at the
end of the Main Street ramp. That was incorrect. I did not. That was
hearsay. I heard that from other officers. I did not see them myself.
Mr. HUBERT. And, as a result of that error you then called the FBI and
told them you wished to correct that, is that correct?
Sergeant MAXEY. No, sir; they came back out there.
Mr. HUBERT. They came back out and said what?
Sergeant MAXEY. And asked me some more questions regarding the shine
boy. They ask me then did I recall the time and I know at the time I
talked to them the first time I told them several things that I didn't
see myself.
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Sergeant MAXEY. I told them things that I had heard and what have you,
and I tried to differentiate between what I could actually testify and
what I couldn't at this time he was talking to me.
Mr. HUBERT. Your present recollection is what then? Which is correct?
Sergeant MAXEY. My present recollection is that I didn't see Daniels. I
didn't see the shine boy.
Mr. HUBERT. And that the information that you did give about seeing
Daniels and the shine boy in the earlier deposition--I mean the earlier
statement to the FBI, which is contained in Exhibit 5096 was erroneous
in that you had not really seen them, but you had heard people talk
about them?
Sergeant MAXEY. That's right.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, in all three statements, however, 5094 and 5095, and
5096, you stated then that you did see Officer Vaughn and yet, as I
recall your testimony this evening you said that you did not recall
having seen Vaughn.
Sergeant MAXEY. At the present time I don't, but those were written
up close to the time all this happened, and I haven't seen one of
those reports since, and lots that I don't remember right now that I
remembered then, I am sure.
Mr. HUBERT. That's correct, and that's why I wanted you to correct this
apparently contradictory statement.
Sergeant MAXEY. That's true, I understand that.
Mr. HUBERT. Because, we don't want to have the record, if we can, to
have conflicts in it.
Sergeant MAXEY. Neither do I, I can assure you.
Mr. HUBERT. So, your statement is that you can't swear tonight that you
saw Vaughn there?
Sergeant MAXEY. No; I can recollect at the time, how--at the time I was
questioned about Vaughn, the main thing they wanted to know about him
at that time was how far he had walked from his position to the curb.
Whether he walked to the curb or out into the street which I didn't
know.
Mr. HUBERT. And right now your mind is blank on Vaughn altogether, I
take it?
Sergeant MAXEY. Actually, yes. I wasn't--right now I couldn't say.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, has anybody asked you to change your statement?
Sergeant MAXEY. No, uh-huh, so far as that goes, I haven't.
Mr. HUBERT. Have you spoken to anybody about it?
Sergeant MAXEY. As far as that goes I haven't talked to anybody about
the statement.
Mr. HUBERT. You have talked to anybody about the possible conflict in
your statement?
Sergeant MAXEY. Uh-uh.
Mr. HUBERT. I don't know how that comes out on the machine. I suppose
you mean "no" by that.
Sergeant MAXEY. No; no. I'd like to say this: That as far as the
conflicting statements are concerned, the only reason a person would
have for getting together and getting his story straight would be to
have something to hide, and I want it known right now I have nothing to
hide, and I want it on the record.
Mr. HUBERT. Yes, sir; it is on the record. This is not an effort to
cross you up in any way.
Sergeant MAXEY. I realize that.
Mr. HUBERT. But, you realize that these statements do exist, and the
purpose of this deposition, among other things, is to determine the
real facts, and when you run into a conflict like this, unless we ask
for explanations we do not get a clear picture.
Sergeant MAXEY. That's true.
Mr. HUBERT. All right. I want to ask you again if you have any
explanation, any other explanation to offer now as to conflicts, or is
it just simply your opinion that insofar as Vaughn is concerned, your
memory was better then than it is now about that event?
Sergeant MAXEY. Yes; I hadn't thought about it too much one way or the
other since then. I will say excluding 4 or 5 days thereafter.
Mr. HUBERT. And as to Daniels and the colored boy, your statement now
is that that was hearsay. You did not, yourself----
Sergeant MAXEY. That was hearsay, and I gave it to him as an--as a
hearsay statement. That was a matter of semantics in my opinion.
Mr. HUBERT. So that the record can show we are all talking about the
same documents, I would like you to sign below my signature and initial
the pages of 5096 and 5095, with the understanding that this is not
an approval by you of these statements at all, but simply as a means
of identification that you and I were both talking about the same
document. So, I would like you to sign my--just below mine and put your
initials on the preceding pages.
Sergeant MAXEY. Where is your name?
Mr. HUBERT. My name is right down here in the margin. Just put it right
in there. Then initial the other pages until you get to the second FBI
statement and then sign under my name. In other words, where my name
is signed, sign your name. Where my initials are, put your initials.
Sergeant MAXEY. Well, now, there is some more points that I want to
bring up.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, let's do this anyhow, what we are doing.
Sergeant MAXEY. All right.
Mr. HUBERT. As I say, this is solely for the purposes of the record
showing that we are talking about the same pieces of paper.
Sergeant MAXEY. All right.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, you have further corrections or comments you wish to
make on these documents?
Sergeant MAXEY. Yes, sir; perhaps they are of no importance, and
perhaps they are, but it is apparently a misunderstanding on the
part--matter of semantics, again, and let's see--paragraph 5, on page
1, states here that--"A few minutes after that Lieutenant Pierce
entered the garage driving a black car." Now, I don't remember him
entering the garage. I believe his car was already parked down there.
Mr. HUBERT. Who is that?
Sergeant MAXEY. Lieutenant Pierce. I don't believe he drove into the
police garage from outside. I believe his car was already parked in the
basement.
Mr. HUBERT. All right. And other comments?
Sergeant MAXEY. Page 2, paragraph 8.
Mr. HUBERT. That is still 5095?
Sergeant MAXEY. Yes, sir; page 2, paragraph 8. That was the correction
I advised the FBI office that I did not actually see Daniels and the
shoeshine boy. That this was something I had overheard other officers
talking about, and that has already been taken care of. Page 3,
paragraph 10. This is concerning----
Mr. HUBERT. That is the 10th paragraph of--actually, the third
paragraph, I guess, on that page.
Sergeant MAXEY. Well, it is part of a paragraph and a full paragraph.