Mr. LOWERY. There was an unmarked car.
Mr. HUBERT. There was an unmarked car, and that is Pierce?
Mr. LOWERY. Pierce was the unmarked car, and he had another officer in
the car. I couldn't tell you who, or how many, or who they were.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the time interval between the O'Dell car movements
up that ramp and Pierce's movements up that ramp?
Mr. LOWERY. I couldn't--I couldn't--I'd be afraid to say exactly, but
probably wasn't more than a minute in that.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you follow the car, or the Pierce car up the ramp with
your eyes, I mean?
Mr. LOWERY. No, sir; if you will notice this [indicating] there is
an offset here, and from my position here I would only see a short
distance up the ramp, and there is also a drop down, air-conditioning
and central-heating unit back in here that I would--if my view hadn't
been obstructed by the line of people on that side I wouldn't have
been able to see more than a few feet up the ramp.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see anybody coming down? I understand from your
statement that you could not have seen their faces as they came down
the ramp because of the obstruction, but you could have seen feet,
couldn't you?
Mr. LOWERY. I wouldn't be able to. I didn't see anybody come down the
ramp. They could have possibly gotten down there without me seeing
them, but I didn't see any feet, or any person come down the ramp at
all.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see anybody climb over the rails from the parking
area into the ramp on the Main Street side?
Mr. LOWERY. No, sir; not that I remember. I couldn't see--couldn't see
the rail from my position for the line of photographers and officers
and the TV cameras and lights.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you have occasion to talk to Ruby thereafter?
Mr. LOWERY. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see him after that?
Mr. LOWERY. Which point?
Mr. HUBERT. After the shooting?
Mr. LOWERY. Well, as I told you, the officers took him into the jail
office, and I went into the jail office, and they were in the process
of searching him, and he was struggling, and I held one--I believe his
left leg. Had him down on his back, and I held his left leg while he
was doing a quick shakedown and then he was taken to the elevator and
upstairs, and that is the last that I saw of him.
Mr. HUBERT. All right. Detective Lowery, have you anything else that
you would like to add that you have not stated, or is not contained in
these several exhibits we have identified here today?
Mr. LOWERY. Well, I think they--I haven't been through the police
report, the investigation in the police department made by Captain
Jones. I believe that they had--a little more in detail.
Mr. HUBERT. You are referring, I think, to a document contained in
Commission's report 81-A, that is page 66, consisting of two pages and
entitled, "Investigation of Operational Security Involving the transfer
of Lee Harvey Oswald, November 24, 1963," which was supplied to the
Commission by the Dallas Police Department through the attorney general.
Since I do not have an extra copy of this document, I am going to
allow it to remain in the volume, but I am going to mark it for
identification as I have marked the others, and that is, "Dallas,
Texas, March 25, 1964, exhibit Number 5085," which purports to be an
interview of you. Now wait--I'll finish the identification, 5085,
deposition of R. L. Lowery, signing my name on the first sheet and
placing my initials in the lower right-hand corner on the second sheet.
This is an interview of R. L. Lowery, November 29, 1963, by Lt. P. G.
McCaghren and Lt. C. C. Wallace. I think you have read this document,
have you not, sir?