Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember seeing him there about that time?
Mr. HARRISON. I remember seeing the uniform there, and he was the
captain who was in the uniform down there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, do you remember seeing these people over here at that
time?
Mr. HARRISON. They were--yes; they were there. There were, I believe,
two people right in here and there were the cameramen behind the rail.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Blackie, do you remember this from actual memory of what
happened or do you remember this from having seen the photographs, the
films?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, I remember these people on my left here and the
ones here on my right. I remember this man with a microphone very
distinctly because, when they brought him out, these fellows back here
hollered for me to move the line back, which I did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, do you remember if there were any people directly
behind you?
Mr. HARRISON. No; not that I recall. I remember I spread my arms out
and backed the group up where these cameras could get a clear shot of
him coming out.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, is it fair to say that, if there had been people in
back of you, you would have either known it because you were looking
around there or because you would have wanted to have cleared them out
or would have been worried about it or anything like that?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, I wouldn't necessarily have seen them, because I
was watching this line across here to keep them from going forward into
the path of this--of where Oswald was coming out.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, at any time after Rio Pierce's car went up that ramp,
did you look in the direction of the ramp?
Mr. HARRISON. Not that I recall; no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see any other officers look in the direction of
the ramp during that period?
Mr. HARRISON. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, while you were over here, as Rio Pierce's car drove
out, were other officers lined up along----
Mr. HARRISON. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The other wall?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And, to your knowledge, were any of them looking out in
this direction toward the Main Street ramp?
Mr. HARRISON. I didn't notice any of them looking out that way. They
could have been. There was--I know, when they brought Oswald out,
Lowery was standing right here on the--on this corner.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Will you put a mark, put an "L" there where Lowery was?
Did you at any time, now, did you see Jack Ruby in this basement at any
time before he shot Oswald?
Mr. HARRISON. Not before he shot Oswald.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you were standing here, did you feel a man pressing
up against your back?
Mr. HARRISON. No; I didn't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Of course, you have seen the photographs, haven't you?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And you saw where Jack came from?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was there anybody that you know of that saw Ruby there?
Mr. HARRISON. Not that I know of.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you talked to anybody that indicated to you that he
saw Ruby there?
Mr. HARRISON. I sure haven't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, what did you do after Ruby shot Oswald?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, I grabbed him and more or less went to the floor
with him and then we took him on into the jail office.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And how long did you remain with him in the jail office?
Mr. HARRISON. Until he was handcuffed, and I went upstairs on the
elevator with him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And how long did you remain with him upstairs?
Mr. HARRISON. I didn't. I left him at the elevator. McMillon and Archer
went back, took him on back to the cell, and I went back down on the
elevator to the basement.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you do--you weren't present, were you, when Jack
was stripped and searched?
Mr. HARRISON. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you got back down to the basement, where did you go?
Mr. HARRISON. I went back out into the ramp area.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you--how long did you remain in the ramp area?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, it was about--until after the ambulance left with
Oswald, and then the captain--I believe it was Captain Jones--sent me
up to the first floor to see that no one come in there in that--on
the first floor that wasn't authorized. We were given orders to stop
everyone and see if they were going out of the building to find out who
they were.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Whereabouts did you station yourself on the first floor?
Mr. HARRISON. I was right there in front of the elevators, at the
elevator door.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you there alone?
Mr. HARRISON. There was--well, there was three or four more officers on
that floor. There was one at every door and exit.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Officer Miller up there with you?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't recall where Miller was at that time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Officer Lowery up there with you?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't recall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Officer Cutchshaw?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't know whether they were or not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you talk to anybody while you were up there or before
you got up there concerning how Ruby got into the basement?
Mr. HARRISON. No; I told Chief Batchelor, just after I come back
downstairs from taking him up--I told Chief Batchelor that I thought
he come from behind those cameras over there, but--and that is where I
thought he come from at that time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, why did you think he came from behind the cameras?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, there was--he came from my left, and I don't see
how he could get down the ramp.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Why did you feel that way?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, I knew there was an officer on the ramp and I just
didn't feel like he could have gotten down there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you also feel that you would have seen him if he had
come down that ramp?
Mr. HARRISON. No, not necessarily; because I wasn't looking toward the
ramp all of the time. I never--had I been turned where I could have
seen the ramp all of the time, I may have seen him coming down.
Mr. GRIFFIN. If Jack had been in that--were you moving around such
after Rio Pierce's car moved that, if Jack had been down there in the
basement area, you would have seen him?
Mr. HARRISON. Not necessarily; it is possible that he could have been
down there and I wouldn't have seen him because he had been back over
in this group of newsmen.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right; but if he had been in the area of the ramp, if
he had been up in this area where you were and around up toward the
Main Street ramp, would you have seen him if he had been in there?
Mr. HARRISON. I might have. I don't--I don't know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. There weren't enough news people milling around up in that
area to have obscured him, were there?
Mr. HARRISON. Not in that immediate area; no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. In other words, if anybody had been turning and looking up
toward the Main Street ramp, there wouldn't have been enough newspaper
people in there to have obscured the sight of Jack Ruby?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't suppose there would have been.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, I am not trying to put words in your mouth. I want to
make this very clear. I am giving you a direct question like this, but
if you feel differently, I want to know if you disagree with me. I am
asking a leading question here, but I want to make sure that I am not
leading----
Mr. HARRISON. What was the question again?
Mr. GRIFFIN. If Jack Ruby had been in this area at the base of the Main
Street ramp, there wouldn't have been enough newspaper people there?
The fact that there were newspaper people around wouldn't have obscured
the sight of him from anybody that was looking up in that direction?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't think it would have obscured him, had they been
looking in that direction. Now, I did, as I said a while ago, I have
looked at some films, and I did look to my left, oh----
Mr. GRIFFIN. By "left," you mean up in the direction of the Main Street
ramp?
Mr. HARRISON. When this guy hollered to me to move the crowd back, I
looked to my left and backed the people up.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Your left would be up in the direction of the Main Street
ramp?
Mr. HARRISON. No; it would be toward the cameras.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Toward the cameras?
Mr. HARRISON. Television cameras, yes; over in this direction.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And, as you looked over there, you didn't see Jack Ruby?
Mr. HARRISON. No; I didn't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember looking over there like that or do you
only remember it from having seen the photograph?
Mr. HARRISON. No; when they hollered, I glanced over there to see where
we were in trying to----
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right.
Mr. HARRISON. In trying to get out of line of those cameras.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, do you remember, as you looked over there, whether
you had any difficulty in seeing people over in that area?
Mr. HARRISON. There wasn't anyone in here.
Mr. GRIFFIN. In front of the cameras?
Mr. HARRISON. No; there was no one in front of the cameras.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What would you say would be the total number of people,
including newspaper people and police officers, who were strung from
the northwest corner over toward the cameras at the time Oswald came
out?
Mr. HARRISON. I would say maybe eight or nine.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right, now. How long did you remain up there by those
elevators?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, it was, I imagine, 45 minutes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And what did you do when you left the elevators?
Mr. HARRISON. Went back upstairs to the bureau.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Which bureau, now, juvenile bureau?
Mr. HARRISON. Juvenile bureau.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you do in the juvenile bureau?
Mr. HARRISON. We stayed there until they told us to--Captain Jones told
us to go up to homicide bureau and write a report as to what we saw and
what we did on this thing.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Now, did Captain Jones give the instructions to
write a report to everybody?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, he told--I didn't hear him give it to everybody. He
told me and Cutchshaw and Lowery to.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Miller up there at the time?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't recall whether Miller was there or not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was it your understanding that Jones was trying to contact
everybody to get them to write a report as quickly as possible?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, now, I don't know about that. He came up there and
told me to report back to the bureau, and when we got to the bureau,
well, he told--came in and told Lowery, myself, and Cutchshaw--I
remember that very distinctly--to go into Captain Fritz' office and
write a report.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, about what time would you say you wrote that report?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't have any idea.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, let me ask you this, then. Maybe this will place it.
After you wrote that report, you went out to Love Field, didn't you?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, what time would you estimate that you went to Love
Field?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, we were supposed to be out there when Mayor
Cabell's plane left. I believe it was at 5:20, and we left the city
hall shortly after 4 o'clock.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you left the city hall, did you make--did you report
in with the dispatcher or anything like that?
Mr. HARRISON. No; there was no--we went out in two separate cars and
we went to--started up Harwood Street, and they gave Lowery a call to
return to the station, and Captain Martin met us there in the basement
and briefed us as to what to do out at Love Field.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right.
Mr. HARRISON. And then we headed on out to Love Field.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. But, on this question, I understand you that
there would not be any record in the office, such as a dispatcher's
record or something like that, that would show when you left for Love
Field, or would there?
Mr. HARRISON. There would be a record of what time he gave Lowery that
call to return to the station.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. And that was a call from captain who?
Mr. HARRISON. Martin.