The testimony of William J. Harrison was taken at 3:45 p.m., on March
25, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building,
Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Burt W. Griffin,
assistant counsel of the President's Commission. Mr. William J.
Harrison was accompanied by his counsel, Ted P. MacMaster.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I was looking through here to see if I could get you a
copy of our rules. Let me state for the record. Correct me if I get the
names wrong. We have here Officer W. J. Harrison of the Dallas Police
Department and Mr. MacMaster.
Mr. MacMASTER. Ted P. MacMaster [spelling] M-a-c-M-a-s-t-e-r, assistant
city attorney of the city of Dallas.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I wanted to provide for you, before we even get into the
formal part of it a copy of the rules, and I think this is a complete
copy, Mr. MacMaster, and, if you like, let me hand them to you.
Mr. MacMASTER. That is fine. Thank you.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And let me state, talk a little bit about this, and then
maybe, if you feel that you would like to stop and take a look at it a
little longer, I would be happy to do that. I will state for the record
that my name is Burt Griffin and I am a member of the advisory staff
of the general counsel's office of the President's Commission on the
Assassination of President Kennedy, and this Commission has been set
up pursuant to an Executive Order 11130 by President Johnson issued
November 29, 1963, and also pursuant to a joint resolution of Congress
No. 137. Pursuant to this Executive order and these resolutions, there
have been a set of rules and a procedure prescribed by the Commission,
and I believe, Mr. MacMaster, that what I have just handed you is a
copy, and I believe a complete copy, of the rules, but if you would
like for me to check and make sure that is everything, I will check
with one of my colleagues. Would----
Mr. MacMASTER. Yes; I would appreciate that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you like me to?
Mr. MacMASTER. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I will have to take it.
(Recess.)
Mr. GRIFFIN. For the record, I have checked with my colleague, Mr. Leon
Hubert, and he confirms my statement to you that that is a complete
copy of the rules of the Commission.
Mr. MacMASTER. I would like to state for the record, Officer William
J. Harrison, a member of the police department of the city of Dallas,
Tex., is making a voluntary appearance here today and is here for
the purpose of voluntarily assisting, in every way possible, in this
investigation.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I certainly appreciate that, and let me take some time
here to explain to you what is involved here. This Commission was set
up under this resolution and this Executive order, which I have given
you a copy of, for the purpose of investigating, evaluating, reporting
back to President Johnson upon the facts surrounding the assassination
of the President and the killing of Lee Harvey Oswald. Now, we have
asked Mr. Harrison to come here today to talk with him in particular
about the facts that are attendant to the killing of Oswald. We don't
want to preclude any information that you may have that falls anywhere
within the scope of the Commission, so if there is anything, why I
would like you on your own to bring it up and we want very much to hear
it.
Let me go back and explain where we are procedurally. Officer Harrison
is appearing here by virtue of a letter, which is sent by the General
Counsel of the Commission to Chief Curry, and the General Counsel,
under these resolutions, has the right to determine who shall be
deposed and also has the authority to authorize individual members of
his staff to take individual depositions, and I have been authorized,
pursuant to that letter to Mr. Curry, to take Mr. Harrison's
deposition. Now, the witness is entitled to 3 days' written notice
before he testifies before the Commission, and some of the witnesses
have asked for it, others of them haven't.
Mr. MacMASTER. You don't have any reason for that?
Mr. HARRISON. No.
Mr. MacMASTER. He wants to waive that 3-day notice.
Mr. HARRISON. Just waive it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And, also, they have a right to counsel before the
Commission. Many of the witnesses have come before the Commission, and
Mr. Harrison is here with Mr. MacMaster, who is his attorney. Do you
have any questions you want to ask me before I swear the witness in?
Mr. MacMASTER. No; not that I know of at this point.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Mr. Harrison, do you have any questions that you would
like to ask me?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, I would like to know if I understand. You have the
reports that we made to the FBI?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. HARRISON. And also the ones that we made to our chief?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, we do.
Mr. HARRISON. Do we get to read those?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you like to see a copy of them?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes; I haven't seen them.
Mr. MacMASTER. You want them to refresh your memory?
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Let me get it out of here. Would you like to
take time and go out?
Mr. MacMASTER. Do you want to take a little time?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Why don't you look it over? You can step out of the room.
Maybe I can find another office for you, too.
(Recess.)
Mr. GRIFFIN. I might ask you again if you have any other questions that
I can answer before I swear you in?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't know of anything. This is off of the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. GRIFFIN. You want to raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear
that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth?
Mr. HARRISON. I do.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Will you state your name, please?
Mr. HARRISON. William J. Harrison.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When were you born, Mr. Harrison?
Mr. HARRISON. August 28, 1924.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where do you live now?
Mr. HARRISON. At 9223 Donnybrook.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that in Dallas?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes, Dallas.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you employed with the Dallas Police Department.
Mr. HARRISON. Yes, I am.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long have you been with the Dallas department?
Mr. HARRISON. Past 16 years.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, what particular bureau or subdivision are you
attached to at present?
Mr. HARRISON. I am a patrolman assigned to the juvenile bureau of the
CID.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you working in that capacity or were you a member of
the department in that capacity on November 22, 23, and 24?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, I am going to ask you some questions generally about
events, things have to do with events before the 24th, and I am not
going to go into as much detail as the events of the 24th, but I do
want to ask you where you were at the time that you heard that the
President was shot.
Mr. HARRISON. Where I was at the time that I heard that the President
was shot?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. HARRISON. I was on duty at the market hall. I was standing at
the--I guess it would be the west end of the President's table.
Mr. GRIFFIN. That is the Trade Mart?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Dallas Trade Mart?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes, sir; market.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you remain there after you heard that the
President was shot?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, it was approximately an hour.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And then where did you go?
Mr. HARRISON. Come back to the city hall.
Mr. GRIFFIN. The Police Department Building or the city hall portion of
it?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, to the juvenile bureau.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And did you go up to the juvenile bureau?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, what did you do when you got back to the juvenile
bureau?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, I don't recall. Stayed around the office there
until time to go home.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What time would you estimate that you got back to the
police department?
Mr. HARRISON. It was around 1:30 or 2.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And what time did you go off duty that day?
Mr. HARRISON. Four.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you have occasion to go out of the building
between the time that you returned and the time that you went off duty?
Mr. HARRISON. I don't recall. I don't think I ever went out of the
building.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you working on any particular cases that you recall?
Mr. HARRISON. No, no; I don't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, during the period that you were there prior to 4
o'clock, did you see anybody on the third floor or elsewhere in the
building who you knew was not a police officer or a member of the press
or somebody who was up on some sort of official business with the
police department, did you recognize anybody that you knew?
Mr. HARRISON. No, no.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see Jack Ruby there at anytime prior to 4 o'clock
Friday afternoon?
Mr. HARRISON. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You do recognize Ruby by sight, do you not?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know Jack personally?
Mr. HARRISON. I knew him as a businessman as well by sight, and I have
known him for 12 years, I guess, as a businessman.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did you happen to meet Jack?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, I used to go into his place. I was a motorcycle
officer, and we would go into these different places just checking, and
he was running the Silver Spur, I think was the name of it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What bureau were you assigned to at that time?
Mr. HARRISON. I was in the traffic bureau.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that motorcycle patrol?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes; motorcycle patrol.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was that downtown only?
Mr. HARRISON. No. We rode all over the city.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What particular business did you have in there?
Mr. HARRISON. Oh, we went in, we went into several places, maybe to get
a cold drink, checking maybe to see if there was some drunks in there,
just regular, routine checks more or less.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you ever see him on a social basis?
Mr. HARRISON. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you ever see him in any capacity other than as a
police officer?
Mr. HARRISON. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you in the last 12 years had any part-time jobs while
you were with the police department?
Mr. HARRISON. Any part-time jobs while I--I didn't understand that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes; while you were a member of the police department, did
you have any part-time jobs?
Mr. HARRISON. Yes; I have had part-time jobs.
Mr. GRIFFIN. In connection with any of this part-time work, have you
ever worked with Jack Ruby?
Mr. HARRISON. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What kind of part-time jobs have you had?
Mr. HARRISON. Around parade of homes, working traffic around these
parades of home, and on special occasions, like where they have
big traffic problems, and in, well, you might say, jewelry stores,
department stores, working in both.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You don't have any special trade like carpenter,
bricklayer or anything like that?
Mr. HARRISON. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, what did you do when you left the police department
at 4 o'clock on Friday?
Mr. HARRISON. I drove home, went home.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And where were you the remainder of the evening?
Mr. HARRISON. Well, I don't recall at all, but I believe I was at my
home. I don't think I had left the house.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is there something that makes you think you might have
been some place else?
Mr. HARRISON. No. I just don't remember back that--if I went anywhere
or not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, what shift did you work on Saturday?
Mr. HARRISON. 8 to 4.