Mr. BROCK. Be to the left of the elevators, I guess it would be then.
Mr. HUBERT. If you were facing the east elevator?
Mr. BROCK. Yes, sir; I was in a position where I could watch it and the
elevator, too.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, I want--you know, it won't show up on here, so, I
want to show you a map or chart of the basement area and in order to
identify it so that the record may show that we are both talking about
the same thing, I am going to ask you to sign this with me, and I am
marking it, "Dallas, Texas, March 26, 1964." This will be Exhibit 5113,
deposition of A. R. Brock. I am signing my name beneath that and I'll
ask you to sign your name just for the purposes of identification. And
now have a look at the map and I would just like you to put, not one
spot, because obviously, you can't stand in one spot, but just sort
of draw by making sort of an area, circle or oblong just the way you
walked and watched.
Mr. BROCK. What I done, I was in a position here. I didn't move out of
it.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, you can mark it then. Just put a circle.
Mr. BROCK. I would stay in this position where I could watch the stairs
and the elevator, too.
Mr. HUBERT. You are facing, most of the time, toward Main Street?
Mr. BROCK. Well, I would be facing one or the other there.
Mr. HUBERT. Where you marked the circle, I am drawing a line from it,
then I am writing, "Position of A. R. Brock during the time he was
guarding elevators and staircase." Right?
Mr. BROCK. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. I am putting a circle around that language and connecting
it by a line to the circle that you drew showing your position. I
think you have testified that all the time you were there, the regular
service elevators, which are on this chart, denoted as elevators Nos. 1
and 2, weren't working at all?
Mr. BROCK. They never opened them the entire time.
Mr. HUBERT. Did anybody go up or down the staircase here, which I am
marking by putting in "X"?
Mr. BROCK. No one went in or downstairs on the staircase.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you ever--did you observe this first aid station?
Mr. BROCK. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see anybody come in or go out of that the whole
time you were there?
Mr. BROCK. At the time that I was assigned there, the doctor was in the
first aid station, and Sergeant Putnam contacted him and told him he
would have to leave the basement area.
Mr. HUBERT. So, he got out?
Mr. BROCK. No one entered after that.
Mr. HUBERT. By the way, I think you stated the time that you were
posted, but let's repeat it to be sure.
Mr. BROCK. I think it was about 9:30.
Mr. HUBERT. And you stayed there how long?
Mr. BROCK. Oh, I believe it was 10:45 when I left there.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, now. Was there any--any people either entered or
left this service elevator during the time you were there?
Mr. BROCK. When I first got down there there were three city employees
and the elevator operator standing there at the door of the elevator
around in front, looking around, just seeing what was going on and
shortly after I got there, I told them they would have to leave the
basement.
Mr. HUBERT. Were they in some kind of a janitorial uniform so that you
could tell that they were employees?
Mr. BROCK. I have seen them before.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know their names?
Mr. BROCK. No, sir; I don't know.
Mr. HUBERT. Men and women?
Mr. BROCK. There was one woman. I haven't seen her before, but from
what I gather, the way she was talking to the others, she was a
telephone operator there at the city hall.
Mr. HUBERT. White woman?
Mr. BROCK. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Were they all white people?
Mr. BROCK. No, sir; there was one building engineer. Engineer, I
believe, is what he was called--a white man. There was a Negro, two
Negroes, one was the elevator operator, one parked cars in the basement
there.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, you made them all go upstairs?
Mr. BROCK. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did they come down any more?
Mr. BROCK. The elevator came down one other time. Sergeant Putnam
brought one of the TV men over there, wanted to go up the fourth--fifth
floor to do some kind of work with the equipment there, and the
elevator come and picked him up and went up and brought him back in a
few minutes, and that was the only person went up or down the elevator.
Mr. HUBERT. As long as you were there?
Mr. BROCK. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you all give the elevator operator any instructions
about what he was to do?
Mr. BROCK. We told him to take it up on the first floor and not bring
it back in the basement, that is, open the door of it in the basement.
Mr. HUBERT. That was after the TV man had been brought up and down?
Mr. BROCK. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, at that point, after the TV man had been
brought up and down, he was issued instructions, "Now, don't come down
here any more."
Mr. BROCK. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And all the time you stayed there he didn't?
Mr. BROCK. It didn't come down any more.
Mr. HUBERT. Who got off of that spot at 10:45?
Mr. BROCK. Sergeant Putnam.
Mr. HUBERT. Where did he put you after that?
Mr. BROCK. He assigned me over to a traffic intersection where the auto
was going to take to the city jail--county jail.
Mr. HUBERT. And you went and helped there?
Mr. BROCK. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. You drove?
Mr. BROCK. My partner drove; M. L. Wise drove my car.
Mr. HUBERT. Dropped you off?
Mr. BROCK. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Where did he drop you off?
Mr. BROCK. Elm and Ervay.
Mr. HUBERT. And you stayed there for how long?
Mr. BROCK. Until about 11:30.
Mr. HUBERT. Who relieved you then?
Mr. BROCK. 11:30 my partner picked me up and reported to Parkland.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did you stay at Parkland? What time did you get
there and what time did you leave, we'll put it that way.
Mr. BROCK. I would just be guessing. Stayed there probably an hour or
hour and a half.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you see any reserve officers around?
Mr. BROCK. Where?
Mr. HUBERT. Parkland?
Mr. BROCK. There was lots of officers out there. I don't remember
seeing any reserve officers out there.
Mr. HUBERT. Actually, can you tell the difference from the uniforms?
Mr. BROCK. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. What? The badge?
Mr. BROCK. They have a patch on their arm that says, "Dallas Police
Reserve Officer," or "Reserve Officer," of some sort and they don't
carry guns. All they carry is a nightstick.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know a reserve officer by the name of Newman?
Mr. BROCK. No, sir; I don't. I don't know any of them, I don't guess,
by name, that I can recall right now.
Mr. HUBERT. All right. Did you see another officer on duty in the
basement but closer to the ramp that runs between Main and Commerce?
Mr. BROCK. There was a, I believe, a reserve officer standing somewhere
in this area.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, the arrow points--let the record show that the arrow
pointed to by the witness is being marked by me with a circle, and I am
writing, "Position of Reserve Officer, as testified to by A. R. Brock,"
and I am putting a circle around that language and connecting it with
this smaller circle. Do you know that reserve officer's name?