Mr. ARNETT. From Oswald when I saw him, I guess [indicating].
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that how far he was from Harrison?
Mr. ARNETT. He might have been a little further out this way from him,
but (indicating).
Mr. GRIFFIN. In other words, the first time you saw Ruby, Ruby was
standing forward, he was standing between--in front of Harrison in the
direction of the Commerce Street ramp?
Mr. ARNETT. Right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But he was off to Harrison's left?
Mr. ARNETT. He was to Harrison's left a little bit.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What direction was Ruby facing when you saw him?
Mr. ARNETT. Just as you and I [indicating].
Mr. GRIFFIN. Facing almost directly at Oswald?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. At that point?
Mr. ARNETT. In this position [indicating].
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you see anybody standing behind his back?
Mr. ARNETT. Did I see anybody behind Ruby's back?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. ARNETT. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Now, who would have been directly--as you are
standing, directly toward Ruby's right, which would be up the Main
Street ramp, who would have been standing right in that position along
the row that you were in, directly to Ruby's right, toward the Main
Street ramp [indicating]?
Mr. ARNETT. Well, I named this newsman with a pad, I mean, I said--I
didn't know his name. I said he was to my right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. To your left?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes; left.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Now, that man was to your left. Was Ruby right
in front of him or was he right in front of Captain King?
Mr. ARNETT. Well, he was just to the left of Blackie Harrison. Now,
whether he was out in front in this manner right in front of King, I
wouldn't say for certain [indicating].
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you able to state whether Ruby was a different man
from the man you saw next to you holding the pad?
Mr. ARNETT. Well, yes; I would say he was a different man.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How are you able to state that?
Mr. ARNETT. Well, I don't believe the newsman was dressed like Ruby.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But did you see that newsman again?
Mr. ARNETT. Did I see him again; is that the question?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes. After the shooting?
Mr. ARNETT. Well, I couldn't say whether I did or not.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How would you describe the dress of that newsman; did he
have on a hat?
Mr. ARNETT. I don't believe he did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he wear glasses?
Mr. ARNETT. I couldn't say.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did he have a suit on?
Mr. ARNETT. I thought he had a kind of raincoat, jacket on, something
of that type.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long did you see that man around before Oswald was
shot?
Mr. ARNETT. Well, I had been in this position, I said 15 minutes, and
so far as I know Blackie Harrison had been standing in front of me all
that time, and this man beside me, I believe, had been there all this
time. I believe they had all been there all this time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, about 1 minute before Oswald was shot there was a car
that drove up and split the lines up?
Mr. ARNETT. That's right. I don't know whether it was 1 minute.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But shortly before?
Mr. ARNETT. Shortly before there was; yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was that man standing over next to you before the car went
up the ramp; was that man in the raincoat next to you before the car
went up the ramp?
Mr. ARNETT. I believe so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are you sure of that?
Mr. ARNETT. Well, I think he was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What makes you think he was?
Mr. ARNETT. Well, I think I remember him being there with me.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Have you talked to Captain King about this man?
Mr. ARNETT. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, how long did you remain in the police building after
the shooting of Oswald?
Mr. ARNETT. After the shooting?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. ARNETT. Whenever he shot Oswald, I made a dive for him, and L. C.
Graves, the detective, had him, and he had him like this, had the gun
like this, and they were scuffling. I got him by the leg. I don't know
what leg I got him by, but I got him by the leg, and I would say there
were seven or eight of us had ahold of him. We carried him back into
the jail office, and while we had him down, handcuffed, he said, "I am
Jack Ruby. All of you know me." They had him handcuffed by that time.
I turned him loose and walked back over here where Oswald was laying
[indicating].
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Now, let me ask you this: how long were you in
the building the rest of the day?
Mr. ARNETT. I believe I went home about 1:30.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, by the time you went home had you heard any rumors
about how Ruby got down into that basement?
Mr. ARNETT. That day?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. ARNETT. I don't believe so. I have heard rumors since then, but I
didn't that day.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let the record reflect that Mr. Davis has left the room,
and I hope the record reflects that we had a short break, a very short
break, about 2 minutes, and we are back and ready to go. Would you read
the last part back?
(The record was here read by the reporter.)
Mr. GRIFFIN. I am going to mark for identification, Dallas, Tex.,
Captain Arnett, 3-25-64, Exhibit 5035, and I am going to hand this to
you. I am going to ask you, Captain Arnett, if what I am showing you is
the dictaphone belt case with the red arrow on it that you identified
earlier in the testimony [indicating]?
Mr. ARNETT. Do you want me to initial it [indicating]?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, is the side which I have got the identification on
the side that I showed you?
Mr. ARNETT. It was up like this. Yes [indicating].
Mr. GRIFFIN. I mean the side [indicating].
Mr. ARNETT. Oh, yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, would you sign that?
Mr. ARNETT. Just sign it?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes, sir. Okay. Now, I am also going to mark for
identification, Dallas, Tex., Captain Arnett, 3-25-64, Exhibit 5036.
Now, this is the diagram of the basement on which you placed markings
indicating where you and Harrison and King and the reporter were
standing, [indicating]?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Just before Oswald came out?