The testimony of Charles Oliver Arnett was taken at 8 p.m., on March
25, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building,
Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Burt W. Griffin,
assistant counsel of the President's Commission. Robert T. Davis,
assistant attorney general of Texas, was present.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I am Burt Griffin, and I am a member of the advisory staff
of the general counsel's office for the President's Commission on the
Assassination of President Kennedy. The Commission itself was set up
under an Executive order issued by President Johnson and congressional
resolution passed by Congress.
Pursuant to these official acts, the Commission itself has promulgated
a set of rules of procedure, and under these rules of procedure I have
been authorized to come here and take your sworn deposition. Captain
Arnett, I want to explain to you a little bit of the general nature of
our inquiry here. We are concerned with the assassination of President
Kennedy and the final death of Lee Harvey Oswald, and we have been
empowered and requested by the President to investigate all the facts
and evaluate and then report this back to the President.
We have asked you to come here because we believe that you may have
some facts that might be pertinent, particularly to the death of Lee
Oswald. However, we are also concerned with the entire picture in the
examination, and if there is anything that you think would be helpful
to us, why, of course, we want to take that. Mr. Hubert and myself
are not working on an intensive basis on the other aspects of things,
outside of Ruby. So what I will do is ask you a few general things
which might have some bearing upon the death of the President that
would enable other people to look at it and see if you were somebody
that might have information, and then we will get into the other
problems.
Now, the mechanics by which we asked you to come here by, the general
counsel of the Commission sent a letter to Chief Curry indicating
that we would like to talk to you and certain other police officers.
Actually, under the rules of the Commission you are entitled to have a
written letter from the Commission, 3 days in advance of your testimony
here, but the rules also provide that you can waive this notice. Before
I swear you in, I would like to ask you if you are willing to waive the
notice provision?
Mr. ARNETT. Oh, sure.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, you are also entitled to have an attorney, and I see
that you don't have an attorney, and I take it that you don't want one.
Mr. ARNETT. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, do you have any questions you would like to ask me
about the thing before I swear you in?
Mr. ARNETT. No.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Will you raise your right hand? Do you solemnly swear that
the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you give the court reporter your full name?
Mr. ARNETT. Charles Oliver Arnett.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And when were you born, Mr. Arnett?
Mr. ARNETT. September 6, 1911.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And where do you live now?
Mr. ARNETT. 1223 South Waverly Drive, Dallas, Tex.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And you are employed with the Dallas Police Department, is
that right?
Mr. ARNETT. No. I am a captain on the reserve.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, will you explain what the difference is between the
reserve and the police department?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes sir. Reserves were established about 10 or 11 years
ago, to assist in, say, tornadoes or, you know, something that came up
that they needed more help in to be trained on that. We don't draw any
pay from the Dallas Police Department at all.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who does pay you?
Mr. ARNETT. Nobody.
Mr. GRIFFIN. This is a completely voluntary thing on your part?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I take it you have a regular occupation on the side?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir; I drive a truck.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And for whom do you work?
Mr. ARNETT. Certain-Teed Products Co.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that here in Dallas?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long have you been with them?
Mr. ARNETT. Fourteen years.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long have you been in the police reserve?
Mr. ARNETT. A little over 10 years.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, have you had any special training in connection with
your duties in the police reserve?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir; went through school.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you tell us a little bit about that school?
Mr. ARNETT. Well, when I was going through, we went on Friday night,
I believe it takes 7-1/2 months, if I remember right, to complete the
course.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long ago was this that you went through the school?
Mr. ARNETT. Well, it's been a little over 10 years now.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And you went every Friday night?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. For how many hours a night?
Mr. ARNETT. Two hours.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And as a result you became an officer in the reserve?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, since you have been in the reserve, how frequently
would you be called to duty?
Mr. ARNETT. Well, I was a sergeant to start with. We had 2 nights a
month, I believe it was, that we were assigned to be here. You could
come more times than that if you had the opportunity. Then I made
lieutenant, which put me over more men, and April 6, either 3 or 4
years ago, I was made captain, and I have, I believe 80 some odd men
under my company B. I am captain over company B.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, after you go through the training school, do your men
engage in regular training of any sort, with the police department?
Mr. ARNETT. Well they ride on the squads and observe what's going on
and special things like Texas-Oklahoma football rally. We work in that.
State Fair of Texas. Usually somebody assigned to that every night
during the Fair, and such as the President's parade. There were, I
believe say 30 some odd--27 or 28, I believe it was, was assigned to
that. Just things like that, or what we are assigned to, and then we
have our regular nights that we ride squads, that we ride with squads
or whatever----
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. How often are you assigned to ride squads?
Mr. ARNETT. Well, the patrolmen usually ride on their regular nights.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is that once a week or once every 2 weeks?
Mr. ARNETT. Now, they are assigned twice a month, but if they have the
time they usually come down once a week.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And for how long do they ride?
Mr. ARNETT. Oh, usually report around 7 or 7:30 at night until 10:30,
11 o'clock. Some of them ride longer than that, but that's the usual
case.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Are they in uniform at that time when they ride?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do they receive any pay for that?
Mr. ARNETT. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, are there any other training programs that these men
undergo once they have gone through the initial 7-month program?
Mr. ARNETT. Well, each fall they go out to the pistol range. I would
say for four or five Saturdays, something like that. I might be off a
week or something like that, but somewhere in that neighborhood, for
training out there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Anything else you can think of?
Mr. ARNETT. Well, right offhand, I don't believe there are.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, I want to mark these couple of documents here, and
then we will talk about these [indicating].
Mr. ARNETT. All right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I am going to mark what is an interview that you had
with two agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Mr. Mabey
and Mr. Kenneth P. Hughes, on December 4, 1963. I am going to mark
that Dallas, Tex., C. O. Arnett, 3-25-64, Exhibit 5032. And the next
document that I am going to mark is what purports to be a copy of a
letter that you prepared--signed, rather, dated November 27, 1963,
and addressed to Chief Curry, having to do with the events that you
observed on November 24, 1963. I am going to mark that Dallas, Tex.,
C. O. Arnett, 3-25-64, Exhibit 5033. Now, I am going to hand these two
exhibits to you, Captain Arnett, and I want to ask you if you have
examined those. Have you had a chance to read them?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, are there any additions or corrections, changes that
you want to make in those, after having had a chance to read them?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Tell us where they are and we will see if we
can't do that.
Mr. ARNETT. Right here. "He was stationed at the door of Chief Curry's
office--" [indicating].
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Now, this is on Exhibit 5032, and you are
referring to the language in the second paragraph on the first page.
You stated that you were stationed in the door of Chief Curry's office.
Go ahead.
Mr. ARNETT. I was stationed at Captain Fritz' office.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right.
Mr. ARNETT. See, they have got it wrong. They have got it down Chief
Curry, when it was Captain Fritz' office.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Would you take my pen, then, and make the
change on there, and cross out what's wrong and make an entry nearby to
indicate what's correct, and then initial it?
Mr. ARNETT. Just scratch out this?
Mr. GRIFFIN. I would say scratch out Chief Curry and write in Captain
Fritz, if that's correct.
Mr. ARNETT. How do you spell Fritz?
Mr. GRIFFIN. [Spelling] F-r-i-t-z.
Mr. ARNETT. [Spelling] F-r-i-t-z?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes. Apostrophe s, I guess. [Spelling] F-r-i-t-z-'-s.
Mr. ARNETT. All right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you initial, put your initials by each one of
those changes and put a date out there, 3-25-64. Are there any other
corrections that you think ought to be made there?
Mr. ARNETT. I don't remember any right now.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Okay. Now, did you serve in connection with the
President's parade?
Mr. ARNETT. Was I at the parade?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have any duties as a reserve officer in connection
with President Kennedy's arrival?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you tell us what those duties were?
Mr. ARNETT. I was at large, but I worked between Harwood and St. Paul,
on Main Street.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, when were you first told that you would have some
responsibility in connection with the procession of the President
through Dallas?
Mr. ARNETT. Well, probably the day before. I am not going to say that
for sure. I could be wrong a day or two, but I think it was the day
before.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you have any men that you were responsible for
supervising?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How many men did you supervise on that particular day?
Mr. ARNETT. If I remember right, we had 27 or 28 reserves in the
detail. We assigned them out of the assembly room to various locations
up and down where the parade would be.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you attend any meeting prior to November 22,
in which you got instructions as to what you were going to do in
connection with the parade?
Mr. ARNETT. No, sir; other than the assembly room that morning, when we
assigned the men out.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, when you arrived at the police department on the
morning of November 22, what time was it that you got there, do you
remember?
Mr. ARNETT. Well, it seems like it was around 10 o'clock.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, prior to 10 o'clock on November 22, had you received
any instructions as to what your duties were going to be, in particular
with respect to the parade?
Mr. ARNETT. Other than just work in the parade is all.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. When you arrived, who did you report to?
Mr. ARNETT. To the assembly room. And right offhand, now, I can't tell
you who was in charge of the regular officers. At that time I knew, and
it seems to me like it was Lieutenant ----. I can't recall his name
right now. Maybe I will think of it directly.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, that's all right. Was there a meeting of all the
reserve officers in the assembly room?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you receive instructions at that time?
Mr. ARNETT. At that time they were each one assigned their location to
work.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right.
Mr. ARNETT. And not to--if they was booing the President or not--you
know, getting out of line or anything, not to bother anybody, but if
you saw anybody that was--acted as though they was going to bodily
harm--you know, injure body, well, to notify the police officer,
regular officers, you know, of what was going on.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, do you recall who gave--you say this was the
lieutenant that gave these instructions?
Mr. ARNETT. It was a lieutenant that assigned us out.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you remember who gave you these instructions that you
are talking about?
Mr. ARNETT. It seems like it was Captain Lawrence, but I couldn't swear
to that, but it's----
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Captain Solomon have any responsibility in that regard?
Mr. ARNETT. It may have been Captain Solomon that gave us that. It was
a captain, I am almost certain and I feel like--I know Captain Solomon
was in the building, in the meeting with us, and it could have been him
that gave us instructions.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. The instructions that were given, did they have
to do with anything other than watching the crowd, were you instructed
to watch any other places besides the crowd?
Mr. ARNETT. You mean any particular buildings?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Or just buildings generally; were you instructed to watch
the windows in buildings or watch the roofs or anything like that?
Mr. ARNETT. Well, I wouldn't say that anything like that in particular
was named, but it was, you know, to watch and see--keep the crowd back
out of the street and see that nobody, you know, rushed out there
against the President's car.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, had you served in connection with other parades?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Any other Presidential or political parades like this?
Mr. ARNETT. At one time Vice President Nixon came to the opening of the
Fair, and I was there for that. Some man walked up to me and told me
that he would like to present a pair of boots to the Vice President. A
Secret Service man, I suppose, was standing close enough that he heard
what the man said to me, and he asked me what the man said, and I told
him, and he said, "Certainly he can't give him a pair of boots. Get his
name and address and if he wants to mail the Vice President a pair of
boots he can later." That's all.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, the instructions that were given down in the assembly
room, did they differ in any way from the instructions that would
normally be given at any other parade that you worked in?
Mr. ARNETT. Well, I wouldn't think so.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I mean at other parades was it the custom to bring you
into the assembly room or----
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Then give instructions as to what you should do and what
to watch out for?
Mr. ARNETT. That's right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were any of the men under your supervision assigned to the
area of the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. ARNETT. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know whether there were any men at all of the
reserve officers assigned to the area of the Texas School Book
Depository?
Mr. ARNETT. I don't recall any.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, the fact that you don't recall; would you have been
made aware of that?
Mr. ARNETT. I had a list of it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You did. And did that list show the areas where they were
assigned?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you still have a copy of that list?
Mr. ARNETT. Captain Solomon does.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, on this list did it show where each particular man
was to stand, was to be placed?
Mr. ARNETT. They would either be on the west side of Harwood or they
would be on the east side of Harwood, between block so-and-so; Main the
same way.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But would it show Charles O. Arnett, corner of Main and
Harwood?
Mr. ARNETT. I was working at large.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, would it show, if I were working there, would it
show Burt W. Griffin, corner of Main and Harwood?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. What did you do when you heard that the
President had been shot?
Mr. ARNETT. Had an aunt that was to be buried at 2 o'clock that
afternoon, and the President's parade was later than it had been
predicted, and when it was over with, prior to the President's arrival
at the--between Harwood and Pacific on Main, a young lady in her
twenties, maybe 30 years old, came up to me and said, "There is some
kids right down there that's got a gun and some toy handcuffs and a
knife." I said, "Would you show them to me?" She said "Well, I rather
not." So I went and got Earl Sawyer, a police officer that was working
the corner of Harwood and Main, and told him of it. He and I went back
to the lady and he asked her. She said, "Oh, it's just a toy pistol."
But some little girls there with us told us where they were, about
where they were standing, and we walked up to them, asked them about
the gun and stuff. They said the boy with the gun had walked off, but
one of them give us a pair of handcuffs and a knife, and I taken him,
and Sawyer went with me, and we carried him to the juvenile department
up on the third floor.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was that a real knife that the kid had?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir. The gun turned out to be a blank, like they
shoot--oh, at starting races or something like that, you know. When the
parade was past us, one of these smaller boys that was in the group
come up to me and asked me when his buddy would be turned loose. I
said, "I don't know, son, but I will go up there with you to try to
find out where he is." So we went up there on the third floor of the
juvenile department. While I was in there someone rushed in and said,
"The President has been shot."
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who was up there with you at that time in the juvenile
department; do you recall any of the officers that were there?
Mr. ARNETT. No; I believe Captain Martin--now, I could be wrong on
the name, but he is over the juvenile department, or was. You know,
the captain that they--that had the kid that we had carried up there.
So I came back downstairs then and I saw two or three highway patrol,
driver's license men----
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me interrupt here just a second, give you a few names
of people who were in that department, juvenile department, and see if
you recognize any of those as having been present. Was Detective Lowery
there?
Mr. ARNETT. I don't remember him being. Now, he may have been.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Officer Goolsby there?
Mr. ARNETT. I don't recall him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was Detective Miller there?
Mr. ARNETT. Well, I couldn't say, and I wouldn't say without telling
you the truth.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes; do you know L. D. Miller, Louis D. Miller?
Mr. ARNETT. I don't know whether I do or not. I do know Lowery, and I
do know the officer----
Mr. GRIFFIN. Lowery and Goolsby. How about the Officer Harrison?
Mr. ARNETT. Blackie Harrison?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Blackie Harrison?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you know him?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was he there at the time?
Mr. ARNETT. I don't recall him being there at the time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where did you go after you left the boy in the juvenile
bureau?
Mr. ARNETT. That was when I carried the second boy up to see about his
buddy?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. ARNETT. I went downstairs and on the street. As I say, I saw three
or four Texas Highway Department driver's license men, and I said, "The
President has been shot." And they said, "Oh, Arnett, what size camera
was he shooting?" They thought, you know, I was joking. So I went on
and got in my car. By that time squads were going everywhere.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Was this your private car?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes; went home to change clothes out of my uniform into
civilian clothes, to go to my aunt's funeral.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, which way did you drive?
Mr. ARNETT. I believe I went down Young Street. I did. I went down
Young Street to avoid all this traffic of squads and everything
going----
Mr. GRIFFIN. Young Street in what direction?
Mr. ARNETT. West.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Headed west?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir. Over the Houston Street viaduct to Oak Cliff.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. Does Young intersect Jackson any place?
Mr. ARNETT. Jackson runs along beside it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Runs parallel to it. Did you go by the Greyhound Bus
station?
Mr. ARNETT. Did I go by it?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. ARNETT. I would have been one block south of it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, what time would you estimate that it was that you
went over the Houston Street viaduct?
Mr. ARNETT. I would say it was shortly before 1 o'clock, because I
had to rush to get out of these clothes into other clothes to get to
Grapevine, which is only 20 miles, something like that, to be there at
2 o'clock.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, when you got across the Houston Street viaduct, is
there a point where you come to Zangs Boulevard?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you go to Zangs?
Mr. ARNETT. I went Zangs to Jefferson.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you get to the corner of Zangs and Beckley at any
point in your trip out there?
Mr. ARNETT. No. Beckley would have been a block east of where I was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, you drove this route, did you see anything?
Mr. ARNETT. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Of any importance to the Commission?
Mr. ARNETT. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Now, I take it then you went on out to the
funeral, or wherever you had to go?
Mr. ARNETT. I went on home. I had my police radio on. Before I arrived
at my home I heard someone come in on the radio and say, "A police
officer has been shot." And further, maybe a block or two, he says,
"I believe he is dead." And I changed my clothes right quick and got
in my car to go to Grapevine. I came back down Clarendon to the R.
L. Thornton Expressway, taken R. L. Thornton Expressway to Highway
114--well, it turns into Stemmons Expressway, you know, automatically,
Highway 114, and I was listening all the time of this transaction of
the police officer.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you listening on a police radio?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Okay. Let me ask you this, this is your own private car?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Does the police radio broadcast over a frequency that can
be heard on ordinary radio receivers?
Mr. ARNETT. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What kind of special adaptation do you have to have on
your receiver to pick this up?
Mr. ARNETT. They call it a converter. It's hooked in with your radio.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is this an FM converter; do they broadcast on an FM
frequency, do you know?
Mr. ARNETT. Well, seems to me like it used to be AM and you could pick
it up then by having your radio fixed a certain way, but they quit
that. You couldn't do it no more, so you had to buy this converter
to go with your radio to get it. And I listened to the move from the
library over in Oak Cliff to the Texas Theater, and was listening to it
when they got him, but I was at Grapevine.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you hear the automobiles called in from the outlying
districts over your radio, when you were listening to it; did you hear
any communications from the dispatcher or otherwise, calling police
cars in from the outlying districts?
Mr. ARNETT. They were giving a description of the man that they had a
description on, and then after the policeman was shot, Tippit, well,
they was giving the description of it, and they first thought he was in
the library over in Oak Cliff. Then they moved to a vacant house, then
they moved to the Texas Theater.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Now, did you go back to the police station on
Friday, after you heard that Tippit had been shot?
Mr. ARNETT. After the funeral, after my aunt's funeral was over, I came
home, ate supper and went back in uniform, came back down here and
worked on the third floor at the elevator.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What time would you estimate that you arrived at the third
floor?
Mr. ARNETT. I would say 6 o'clock.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, at the time that you arrived at the elevator,
had there been a system set up for admitting people to the third
floor--let's put it this way, excluding people from the third floor?
Mr. ARNETT. That's what I started doing.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, was there anybody else doing that at the elevator
before you arrived, before you got there?
Mr. ARNETT. I couldn't say whether there was anybody assigned there
before I got there or not, but there was a Sergeant Ellis, I believe,
and Sergeant Dugger, were there with me when I was working there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Did you replace anybody?
Mr. ARNETT. Now, I am not going to say that I did or I didn't, because
I couldn't tell you and be telling you the truth.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Who did you get your instructions from?
Mr. ARNETT. I believe it was Sergeant Ellis, I believe it was, now.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Is he a regular sergeant?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you ride on the elevator?
Mr. ARNETT. No, sir. I was in front of it, and as people got off they
had to show their identification.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. Did you recognize Jack Ruby?
Mr. ARNETT. Did I recognize him?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes; I mean, did you know Jack Ruby up to this point?
Mr. ARNETT. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What kind of identification did you ask for when people
got off of the elevator?
Mr. ARNETT. Well, if they was a press reporter, they had a press card,
showing who they were, and they were from everywhere, coming in there.
You would be surprised how far they had traveled that day. You know, I
was--I didn't think about people being there that day, you know, from
so far up. One man told me he was asleep in Chicago. They woke him
up and told him the President had been killed, and he was there that
night, I would say by 8 o'clock. There was one man in particular that I
remember, that came up. He said he was a postal inspector.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Postal inspector?
Mr. ARNETT. He showed me his identification, said he would like to talk
to Captain Fritz, that he had a key to the post office box down there
that this fellow had, and he wanted to see if that key did fit it, or
he had a key and he wanted to see if it would--was to that box.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, how many of you were standing there at the third
floor elevator, checking identification of people who got off the
elevator?
Mr. ARNETT. I would say four. Two elevators.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you do about people who came up, who said they
came up to see somebody who was being questioned, or in connection with
some other business other than being a photographer or----
Mr. ARNETT. If they didn't have an identification of pressmen or ranger
or lawmen of some kind, they were turned back. There were two Spanish
men came up there who wanted to talk to some officer about a ticket,
and we notified whatever officer they wanted to talk to about it, and
told him to go downstairs and see them.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Suppose somebody had showed you a justice of the peace
card, would you have admitted him?
Mr. ARNETT. A justice of the peace?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Suppose somebody had showed you a card that said he
was an honorary deputy sheriff, or a courtesy card, some of the law
enforcement agents give out, are you familiar with those?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Suppose someone had showed you one of those, would you
have let him in?
Mr. ARNETT. I wouldn't let anybody in who didn't have proper
identification, without notifying one of these regular officers
standing there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you have considered this a proper identification?
Mr. ARNETT. I don't remember having that come up. Now, there were two
or three rangers there. One of them from Gainesville, Tex. I talked to
him a little bit and the captain of the rangers was there. I don't know
where he was from. He might have been from Dallas.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have any lawyers come up?
Mr. ARNETT. Lawyers?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. ARNETT. I don't remember any.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you have any newspaper people come up who didn't show
you press cards who appeared to be newspaper people from the way they
conducted themselves?
Mr. ARNETT. Two or three different times a news reporter would come up
and show a press card and say, "I have got a friend with me that's just
with me". I said he would just have to wait downstairs, and they did.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, you know, a number of police officers have stated
that they saw Jack Ruby up on the third floor on Friday evening. How do
you imagine that Ruby could have got by?
Mr. ARNETT. I don't know. After I was there that afternoon or that
night, I would say. I wasn't in the afternoon, because I was at that
funeral, but I don't believe Jack Ruby got up there after that time of
night. I didn't see Jack Ruby the entire time of that thing, until he
was in front of me in the basement, the 24th.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you have recognized him?
Mr. ARNETT. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you remain at the elevator doors all of the time
you were on duty on Friday?
Mr. ARNETT. Friday night?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. ARNETT. I would say I was there until around 11 o'clock that night.
Mr. GRIFFIN. After 11 o'clock what did you do?
Mr. ARNETT. I went home.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did anybody replace you on those doors?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you recall who that was?
Mr. ARNETT. No, sir; I don't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you give him any instructions as to what he was to do
in admitting people?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you come in on Saturday?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What time did you come in on Saturday?
Mr. ARNETT. Around 2 o'clock.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And how late did you stay?
Mr. ARNETT. Until about 11.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you do the same sort of thing on Saturday?
Mr. ARNETT. That afternoon I didn't work in front of the elevators, but
I did work over where the stairways are. There is a stairway that you
can walk down.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. ARNETT. I worked there with an officer. I believe his initials is
L. M. Baker.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, there came a time Saturday night when you were
stationed by Captain Fritz' office?
Mr. ARNETT. That's right.
Mr. GRIFFIN. About what time was that?
Mr. ARNETT. I would say around 7 or 8 o'clock that night.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you notice while you were there whether any
newspaper people were going in to use the telephone in the homicide
office?
Mr. ARNETT. No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You say you were stationed outside Captain Fritz' door. Do
you mean that you were inside the homicide office?
Mr. ARNETT. No; I was outside.
Mr. GRIFFIN. In other words, you were stationed outside of the homicide
door?
Mr. ARNETT. In the hallway.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, that wasn't really the door to Captain Fritz' office?
Mr. ARNETT. No; his office is back inside, but you had to go through
that door to get to his office.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I wonder if it wouldn't be clearer if we even edited this
other, instead of Captain Fritz, if we crossed that out and said to the
door to the homicide office?
Mr. ARNETT. All right. Go ahead and write it in if you want to.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Let me mark it [indicating].
Mr. ARNETT. That would sound more reasonable, sensible, anyway.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, would you initial those two places and date them
where I marked them [indicating]?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir. We got the date, is that all right?
Mr. GRIFFIN. That's okay. All right. Now, did you see newspapermen
going in to use the telephone in other offices besides the homicide
bureau?
Mr. ARNETT. Well, really I just tell you the truth, there were so many
people in there and out--what I mean, there was a crowd there, and as
far as seeing what was going on in other offices, I couldn't tell you.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did there come a time on Saturday night when you
received some instructions from one of the other officers?
Mr. ARNETT. Did there?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you call Lieutenant Merrell sometime that night?
Mr. ARNETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, about what time was that?
Mr. ARNETT. It seemed to me like it was around 9 o'clock.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. And what did Lieutenant Merrell tell you?
Mr. ARNETT. That Captain Solomon had called him and asked to get a few
reserves down there the next morning to help with the transfer.
Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. Now, where was this told to you?
Mr. ARNETT. It was told to me there at the door, to call Lieutenant
Merrell. I am trying to think where I went and called from.