Mr. HUBERT. Any sequence of plans?
Captain TALBERT. After the plans had been instituted, Lieutenant
Pierce, who I had sent to the homicide bureau previously to see if we
could be of any assistance, or see if he could do anything--I didn't
see him enter the basement, but as he pulled up onto the ramp--or in an
effort to enter the ramp, he stopped his vehicle and called me over and
asked me to get in his car. I opened the door, got in on the right-hand
side of his car and he told me my--I omitted something, I believe,
about this armored car, haven't I? Do you want that in there?
Mr. HUBERT. We'll come back to it.
Captain TALBERT. All right. He told me that he had been instructed to
take a car out and get in front of the armored car which was backed
into the ramp on the Commerce Street side and to lead the armored
car. He was to be the lead vehicle and the armored car, it would go
up northbound on Central to Elm, west on Elm and swing in off of Elm
on to Houston Street. That two plain cars would pull up behind of the
armored car. The prisoner would actually be in the last plain car, and
the first plain car would be full of armed homicide officers, and it
would cut off on Main Street, west. It would leave the city hall with
the cavalcade, and when it hit Main Street the two plain cars with
the homicide officers in them with the prisoner would make a left and
go west and the armored car and the lead vehicle there would continue
to Elm and then west. The two vehicles, or rather the two groups of
vehicles would be paralleling each other. One on Main, and one on Elm.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know what the plans were with reference to the
controlling of traffic on Main Street on which the prisoner was
actually going to be transferred?
Captain TALBERT. No, sir; that was the first information I had is the
fact that the prisoner would not be in the armored car. Up until that
point, I assumed he would be in the armored car.
Mr. HUBERT. But, at that point, it became apparent that he was not
going to be in the armored car?
Captain TALBERT. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. You had already set up a traffic-control system by having
assigned men at various intervals on Elm?
Captain TALBERT. Elm; yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. But, if they were going to use Main Street, what control
would be used for cross traffic, crossing Main Street?
Captain TALBERT. I have no knowledge, sir. Probably normal
transportation, more than likely. That is strictly my idea.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, you said that you wanted to say something about the
armored car.
Captain TALBERT. Yes, sir; I had previously been instructed about the
armored car by Chief Stevenson and Chief Lumpkin, that was at the time
they asked that the officers be placed on Main, and later transferred
in to Elm Street, and at the instruction I had, was to have a man be
observant, to make sure that the armored car didn't hit--didn't jam it
into the overhead of the rampworks.
When the armored car arrived they did back it into the Commerce Street
side, and the driver left it up near the front of the ramp because
of its weight, rather than height. Although, due to its height, it
couldn't have backed much farther down the ramp, but he was afraid
that due to the weight of the car the--it wouldn't pull it out. The
engine wouldn't have enough power to pull it out of the ramp, and so
it was left in that position until after Lieutenant Pierce pulled the
plain car that was his normal assignment car, I think equipment 239,
although, that is irrelevant, attempted to pull it up the ramp. He
couldn't get through the news media, which I would like to add to a
little later. I previously had the news media in the jail office. Now,
during one of my inspection trips I inspected the first floor of the
Police and Courts Building from the doors for Harwood and Main Street
to see that there was no congestion, and also, to look the crowds over
on Commerce, and during one of my trips, or perhaps I was contacting
the dispatcher--I was still conducting my regular patrol duties--the
news media was moving from the jail office to the ramps to clear the
jail office of them.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you supervise that movement?
Captain TALBERT. No, sir; Chief Batchelor arrived and was told of the
preparation that had been made in the basement, and I assumed looked
at the office. I wasn't present, but I assume he looked in the office
and asked that that news media be removed. He was talking to Sergeant
Putnam and Sergeant Dean. I wasn't present, nor was Lieutenant Pierce
there.
Mr. HUBERT. So, the news media were moved out of the jail area and
where did they then go?
Captain TALBERT. I was told--and this by Sergeant Putnam--that they
were first placed on each side of the ramp leading from Main and
Commerce, and after the chief observed the conflict there, he had those
on the Harwood Street side of the ramp moved across the ramp onto the
Main Street side to keep--to make more room for vehicular traffic, and
that, of course, was from Sergeant Putnam to me. I don't know what
instigated----
Mr. HUBERT. Well, did you have occasion to observe the news media in
the ramp and parking areas just prior to the shooting of Oswald?
Captain TALBERT. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, now, I think I should like to have you describe that,
and in order to facilitate that, I am going to draw a general oblong
figure which I am marking "Area A," and I'm going to draw another
general oblong figure which I am marking "Area B," and I would like you
to tell us for the record----