Mr. HUBERT. Surely.
Captain TALBERT. A reserve officer whose name I do not recall, was
placed at a point marked "9," with the instructions not to permit
anyone to enter the parking area from the elevators or stairwell. But
a reserve officer was placed in the point marked "8." We--I think
we have that in the deposition now. Reserve officers were, at that
time, brought forward when I asked if the conduits had been searched,
the top of the conduits, and--the air-conditioning conduits, if they
had been searched. They brought the two reserve officers forward who
had the filthiest uniforms. It was quite obvious that they had been
crawling around on top of them. They had searched them, and I took
their condition to state that their search had been thorough and the
fact that Sergeants Putnam and Dean told me that they had covered
each one, that the engines, engine compartments, the trucks as well
as the vehicles parked in the basement had been searched for possible
hiding places, and all of this was accomplished. After the search was
accomplished, after officers were placed in the adjacent ramps on the
Commerce Street side, on the Main Street side, and from the lobby of
the police building marked "10," lobby of the police building into the
area in front of the jail office leading into the ramp area--may I mark
the places where the officers were now? The reserve officers--we are
getting a--can I hold it for a minute?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
(Discussion off the record.)
Captain TALBERT. All right, now, I will go ahead and mark the area
where we had each----
Mr. HUBERT. Yes; you marked "10," that you had an officer there.
Captain TALBERT. I had an officer and--a reserve officer was at "11."
Two detectives were--Lowery and Beaty--Beaty and Lowery. "12" and "13"
most of this period. Number "14" on the Main Street entrance to the
police ramp was Vaughn, R. E. Vaughn, and number "15" and "16" were
Patrolman Jez and Patrolman Patterson.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, did you ever order the reserve officer at the point
"9" removed?
Captain TALBERT. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know that he had been?
Captain TALBERT. No, sir; at 11 o'clock, when the detail was made up to
put traffic men on Elm Street, it was gathered in that area, and that
man was in place at that time, at 11.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know that?
Captain TALBERT. If he was moved after 11 I don't know who moved him or
where he went, but the reserve officer "9" was in place at that time.
Mr. HUBERT. You don't know what his name was?
Captain TALBERT. I believe Brock is going to be his name, but I am not
sure.
Mr. HUBERT. I think it is Brock. Now, then, you mentioned something
about drawing off persons to patrol the intersection of Elm Street?
Captain TALBERT. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Would you tell us something about that, please?
Captain TALBERT. We had kept as many officers out of the basement area
as possible to keep from adding to the confusion of the search so we
could make a systematic search, and I had retained all of the excess
officers, and, as I recall, numbered about 13 regular police officers
in my office and the reserve officers, and excesses were retained in
an assembly room which would be behind the jail office, and after
about 11--let's back up and make that about 10:45--in that vicinity,
Chief Stevenson and Chief Lumpkin contacted me about the route of the
proposed transfer of Lee Harvey Oswald, and they asked--correction--I
asked if we were going to use marked cars or plain cars, or if we were
going to utilize sirens to stop traffic at intersections?
Chief Stevenson said he didn't want any attention attracted to the
transfer that wasn't already attracted to it, and asked if I had enough
personnel to put in the intersection of Elm Street. First he said Main
Street. The first route planned was Main, and it was changed to Elm
before I could so disperse the personnel, so, actually, we utilized Elm
all through this.
Mr. HUBERT. Just as it was?
Captain TALBERT. And they said first Main and then before--after I
had removed the men from my office to the ramp--not the ramp area,
but the parking area and told Sergeant Dean and Sergeant Steele to
place them on each intersection to stop traffic for the lights as the
people making the transfer approached them. Found then that it was to
be Elm Street instead of Main, that it was to be Elm rather than Main
and the traffic could go--the reason being that they could swing off
of Elm into Houston, directly into the prisoner loading area of the
sheriff's office, and those 13 men were placed by Sergeant Steele at
each intersection. He didn't have enough. I instructed him that he
obtain any additional men he might need from the captain who was in the
area of the county jail, and he later called me by phone and told me
of the traffic conditions down there, and I had an estimate, I don't
recall whether from him or some other officer of the approximate number
of people in that area, said around 600 or so gathered up around the
county jail; so I instructed Steele to have each one of the men fall in
behind or follow fairly closely behind the conveying vehicle so they
would be available for any trouble that might develop around the county
jail.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you ever told by anyone of the plans of the transfer?
Captain TALBERT. Yes.