Mr. HUBERT. Now mark the same way on the Main ramp the number of people
that were in the area on the Main ramp?
Mr. STEVENSON. [Marking] Well, it is purely a guess. I would say 40 to
50, in that area.
Mr. HUBERT. Let me see if I can recapitulate it.
On the Main ramp there were between 40 and 50 newspeople standing
abreast?
Mr. STEVENSON. Not news--police and all.
Mr. HUBERT. And news people standing abreast is roughly five to six to
seven to eight, perhaps?
Mr. STEVENSON. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. In this other area which you have marked with a rough
semicircle, there were between 50 and 60 people?
Mr. STEVENSON. That is an estimate, estimate on it; yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, when you came down and observed the moving of the
vehicle driven by Dhority, were those people in the ramp and basement
area already located there?
Mr. STEVENSON. Yes, sir; they were.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know what security arrangements had been made with
respect to checking the presence of those people?
Mr. STEVENSON. Yes, sir; the same security arrangement we had used all
the way. No one was to be permitted into the basement without being
a bona fide member of the press or news media, and to our knowledge,
or to my knowledge, there was no one down there except members of the
press or police officers, or officers from some department, a Federal
officer or sheriff's office.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know of any instructions that had been given with
reference to checking these people for identification?
Mr. STEVENSON. Only what was given to them on the third floor. Now, I
don't know what instructions Captain Talbert had given the men, but
he told me he had instructed that no one would be permitted in there
unless they had a press pass and was officially connected with the news
media.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he tell you how that would be ascertained?
Mr. STEVENSON. By the officers checking them and checking his
credentials.
Mr. HUBERT. I think you had gone there earlier on the occasion of about
9:45, I believe it was, when you and Batchelor went to get coffee?
Mr. STEVENSON. That was Chief Lumpkin and I drank the coffee, Mr.
Hubert.
Mr. HUBERT. Anyhow, I am thinking about the last time that you were
there prior to your going down finally, or to put it another way, the
second to the last time you were down?
Mr. STEVENSON. The next to the last time was after I drank the coffee,
Chief Batchelor and I went down there.
Mr. HUBERT. What time was it then?
Mr. STEVENSON. About the best I recollect, around 10:30.
Mr. HUBERT. Now were these news media people in those areas at that
time?
Mr. STEVENSON. Not on the Main Street or north ramp, not at that time.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know where they were?
Mr. STEVENSON. They were back in here.
Mr. HUBERT. That is to say, back in the basement area?
Mr. STEVENSON. Yes; in the basement area.
Mr. HUBERT. So at that time you think there were approximately, well,
twice the number of people that you have since described as were in the
Main ramp and the basement area, roughly about a hundred people?
Mr. STEVENSON. At that time there might not have been, because that was
some 40 or 50 minutes before the prisoner was transferred.
Mr. HUBERT. Were there people upstairs or elsewhere?
Mr. STEVENSON. Some of them were on the third floor. Some of them were
on the first floor. Now just where they all were, Mr. Hubert, prior to
the time the transfer was actually made, I don't know, but about 10:30,
I would say that there was not that many down there at that time.
Mr. HUBERT. When you said the first floor, you meant the first floor of
the police and courts--of the police department?
Mr. STEVENSON. Of the police and courts building; yes.
Mr. HUBERT. You have already testified concerning the relation of what
you call the courts?
Mr. STEVENSON. The police and courts building.
Mr. HUBERT. To the municipal building or the city hall?
Mr. STEVENSON. Right.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know of your own knowledge whether there was any
security as to the entrance to the city hall's first floor?
Mr. STEVENSON. Oh, only what Captain Talbert advised me, that they did
have it sealed off and had the elevators stopped on the first floor and
nothing to come below the first floor of the city hall proper.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know about what entrances do exist to the city hall
municipal building's first floor?
Mr. STEVENSON. Yes.
There is an entrance off of Main Street. There is an entrance off of
Commerce Street. There is also an entrance into what we call a freight
elevator off the alley on the east side which the alley runs between
Commerce and Main and right up to the east side of the city hall.
To my knowledge, those are the three entrances to the city hall proper
other than from the basement and the elevators up from the basement.
Mr. HUBERT. Isn't there a corridor, however, that leads from the first
floor of the city hall to the first floor of the police department?
Mr. STEVENSON. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know what security there was with respect to that
corridor?
Mr. STEVENSON. To my own knowledge, Mr. Hubert, I don't know other than
he did have, Captain Talbert said he had men on the first floor of the
police and courts building and I believe that you will find a steel
gate that closes off the police and courts building from the municipal
building.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know whether that gate was closed?
Mr. STEVENSON. No, sir; I do not. I did not inspect that.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know whether the entrance to the first floor of the
municipal building on Main and Commerce were locked or not locked?
Mr. STEVENSON. I did not inspect them; no, sir. I do not know of my own
knowledge, but usually on a Sunday, those doors are locked.
Mr. HUBERT. Is that statement true about the door on the alley?
Mr. STEVENSON. To my knowledge, only the maintenance crews have keys.
Mr. HUBERT. Now were any policemen assigned to any of those three
entrances from the outside into the first floor of the municipal
building? To wit, Main Street entrance, Commerce Street entrance, and
the service door on the alley?
Mr. STEVENSON. To my own knowledge, I don't know whether Captain
Talbert told me that he had security on the outside of the doors of the
city hall and the municipal building, but I did not go out and check
those to see.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you aware then--that is to say, on November 24th, of
the position of two reserve officers called Brock and Worley?
Mr. STEVENSON. Not by name; no, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know that there were two reserve officers in the
basement area, one of them near the elevators and one of them near
the----
Mr. STEVENSON. This is a driveway into the parking area.
Mr. HUBERT. The driveway into the parking area proper?
Mr. STEVENSON. To my own knowledge, no, sir; I don't. I did not go back
to the elevators over here to check on that. My officers were in this
general area in here.
Mr. HUBERT. That is to say, you are indicating from the intersection of
the jail corridor and the ramp at the basement?
Mr. STEVENSON. Directly out in front of the jail office entrance, and
in this area in here, and up this way and back here.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know anything about the removal of those two men
from the positions indicated?
Mr. STEVENSON. No, sir; I do not.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, did you observe the shooting?
Mr. STEVENSON. No, sir; I did not witness the shooting. If I may
explain that, when Mr. Dhority backed the car that was to carry Lee
Harvey Oswald to the county jail, then, as I have stated before, I
stepped to the west side of it and was right about the front hinge of
the door. I heard someone remark "They are coming out."