The testimony of Capt. James Maurice Solomon was taken at 2 p.m., on
March 26, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office
Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Leon D. Hubert,
Jr., assistant counsel of the President's Commission.
Mr. HUBERT. This is the deposition of Capt. J. M. Solomon of the Dallas
Police Department. Captain Solomon, my name is Leon Hubert. I am a
member of the advisory staff of the general counsel of the President's
Commission.
Under the provision of Executive Order No. 11130, dated November 29,
1963, and the joint resolution of Congress No. 137, and the rules of
procedure adopted by the Commission, in conformance with that Executive
order and joint resolution, I have been authorized to take a sworn
deposition from you, Captain Solomon.
I state to you that the general nature of the Commission's inquiry
is to ascertain, evaluate and report upon the facts relating to the
assassination of President Kennedy and the subsequent violent death of
Lee Harvey Oswald. In particular as to you, Captain Solomon, the nature
of the inquiry today is to determine what facts you know about the
death of Oswald and any other pertinent facts you might know about the
general inquiry.
Captain Solomon, you have appeared today by virtue of a general request
made to Chief Curry by Mr. J. Lee Rankin, who is the general counsel on
the staff of the President's Commission.
Under the rules adopted by the Commission, you are entitled to a 3-day
written notice prior to the taking of your deposition. But the rules
also provide that any witness may waive that 3-day notice if he wishes
to do so. Now, I would like to ask you if you are willing to waive the
3-day notice?
Mr. SOLOMON. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. All right, then; would you please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. SOLOMON. I do.
Mr. HUBERT. Will you please state your full name, Captain?
Mr. SOLOMON. James Maurice Solomon.
Mr. HUBERT. What is your age, Captain?
Mr. SOLOMON. Fifty-four.
Mr. HUBERT. And your residence?
Mr. SOLOMON. 1502 East Ohio.
Mr. HUBERT. What is your present occupation?
Mr. SOLOMON. My occupation at the present time at the police department
is reserve coordinator.
Mr. HUBERT. You are a member of the Dallas Police Department?
Mr. SOLOMON. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. How long have you been a member of the department?
Mr. SOLOMON. Thirty years last September.
Mr. HUBERT. Your particular assignment now is to coordinate the reserve
affairs?
Mr. SOLOMON. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Of the Dallas Police Department?
Mr. SOLOMON. My offices are at the police academy, and I am used out
there in training recruits.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you in that same position during the period November
22 to 24, 1963?
Mr. SOLOMON. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. I would like you to state for the record just how the
reserve program of the Dallas Police Department is set up, because I
don't think we have it in the record otherwise.
Mr. SOLOMON. Well, I am sure you don't. The reserve operates different
in every city that I know, and just to their particular needs.
Now, the reserve organization in Dallas is strictly what the name
implies. It is, really a reserve intended to be called upon when there
is a catastrophe, some real bad emergency, to augment our manpower.
It is a semimilitary organization in that we call it the reserve
platoon. It has three companies commanded by a captain. Each company
has three platoons. And each platoon has three squads. There are
approximately--it fluctuates just a little bit--but there are
approximately 300 men in the organization.
Mr. HUBERT. Who is the reserve captain?
Mr. SOLOMON. There are four reserve captains. Now, the reserve major
is Major Tropolis, the major in command. We call him the reserve
commander. He is George Tropolis.
Mr. HUBERT. Who are the captains?
Mr. SOLOMON. The captains are J. E. Marks, C. O. Arnett--I believe you
talked to him last night--L. C. Crump and O. S. Muller.
Mr. HUBERT. Do these men train at regular intervals?
Mr. SOLOMON. Yes, sir. They are all required to go through a training
program of about 72 hours. They do that 1 night a week. Takes about 8
months to complete that before they are used in any way, before they
are given a uniform or anything of that nature.
After they complete this training, they are outfitted with a uniform at
their own expense, and from then on the participation that they do is
considered observation training.
In other words, there is a program set up whereby they report at least
two times a month. We have it set up twice a month, and mandatory that
they come every third month. If they don't we drop them.
But each reserve is required to report at least once a month for
observation training. He can do this in a squad car, in the jail
office, or dispatcher's office, or in any phase of the police
operation, really, and he is in uniform, and he works right alongside
the regular officer and just assists him in his work in anything he
wants him to do if he has a belligerent prisoner, but still that is
considered observation training.
Here in the last year or so, we have been using our reserves more
maybe like an auxiliary, but there have been times such as a parade
or football parade--in other words, it wasn't an extreme emergency,
but it was an event that we realized we needed more manpower, and they
were anxious and willing and eager to help us, and they were being in
uniform and were doing a good job.
You want me to continue?
Mr. HUBERT. Do these men get any pay for this?
Mr. SOLOMON. No. There is no pay at all.
Mr. HUBERT. As a matter of fact, they buy their own pistol and uniform?
Mr. SOLOMON. Yes. They buy their own initial uniform. After that their
uniforms are maintained with the old uniforms that the regular officers
outgrow or something like that.
Mr. HUBERT. I gather from what you have said that you are rather strict
as to the training program that these people must observe, otherwise
you drop them?
Mr. SOLOMON. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What about the basic selection of these people? How do you
go about that? What are the criteria you use to select them?
Mr. SOLOMON. We have just an application form similar to what anybody
would fill out in applying for a job, which is for their background,
their schooling, what type of work they have been engaged in, where
they have lived, and so forth. Then, of course, I submit that
application to our personnel bureau which runs a background check on
them, criminal and civil, or any court record they might have that
might show their emotional stability or we run a credit check on them
for bad debts or something like that, that kind of indication that they
are not stable. And traffic arrests.
If it is somebody out of the ordinary, why we are kind of strict
along that score. I have these reserve captains that I just mentioned
that comprise the reserve staff, and each applicant I get after the
personnel board submits their findings, they interview the men, and
they have some information to go on there, and whether he is accepted
to go to school. After they interview him and ask him questions about
trying to feel out if they think he is emotionally suited for that kind
of work.
Mr. HUBERT. What, in your opinion, is it that interests a man to want
to be in the reserve program?
Mr. SOLOMON. Well, that may be a vocation a little bit. You know,
before I got into the program, I thought maybe it was just a group of
people that were just trying to--they were just eager, I would say, in
other words.
I thought they were, how should I say it, I just felt like they were
kind of overeager, or just nosy, so to speak, and they just wanted to
see around. But after I got into the program, I was amazed to find the
caliber of men. I have only been in 7 years. I went in 1957. It was
begun in 1952. And the man that had it then has since made a promotion
to inspector, and I was assigned out there.
Mr. HUBERT. In other words, you have satisfied yourself, I gather, that
the motivation of these people for getting in the reserves is that they
consider it a civic duty?
Mr. SOLOMON. A civic duty, yes, sir; civic minded.
Mr. HUBERT. It is not just that they want the authority of the uniform?
Mr. SOLOMON. Yes, sir. Of course, we have applicants like that. It
is the duty of the staff, in a drawn-out process of training, which
is really drawn out 8 months, and long enough to observe them, to
eliminate the ones they don't feel are suitable. I nearly always start
off with a class of 50 men and I rarely ever graduate over 30--27 to 30.
During that period of time some naturally drop out and some I ask to
leave, or just wash out, one way or another, as quickly as I can. After
all, it is a public relations program, and if I understand somebody is
in there that I know will get us in trouble, I find some excuse for him
to leave.
Mr. HUBERT. So, actually, about 60 percent of the people who start
ultimately get into the program?
Mr. SOLOMON. That's right.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you watch their conduct very carefully? On duty, of
course I know, but off duty too?
Mr. SOLOMON. Well, yes. We have had a few occasions where a few got
into some trouble. I guess just drinking or some did get into some bad
debts and embarrass us, but we counseled with them. And I have had to
let some go. Percentagewise this hasn't been much greater than in our
regular department.
Mr. HUBERT. All right. Now, I want to get to the matter of the
interview you had with Harold Holly, who I think is a reserve officer?
Mr. SOLOMON. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Can you state in your own words just what that was all
about?
Mr. SOLOMON. Well, Holly was with us a long time. He was in the
organization, I have forgotten how many years, but I don't guess that
is important.
But frankly, Holly was--he is confused. I am not exactly satisfied that
he is sure about what he is saying. His statements were so general,
such a general nature, and when I showed him the pictures he was unable
to positively identify them.
This man that he did pick out and said that he looked most like the man
that was in the basement was W. J. Newman. He was in the basement, but
he wasn't out at Parkland Hospital where he told them he saw him, and I
just got the impression that Holly was--he just wasn't too reliable a
witness.
Mr. HUBERT. What did he say to you? Of course, we will get his
testimony, but what do you remember that Holly said to you?
Mr. SOLOMON. Well, he first approached me--you see, I was at the
courthouse down in the area when Oswald was shot, so I knew immediately
from the previous slaying that one of our big headaches was going to be
at the Parkland Hospital, and I rushed on out there to try to set up a
little security out there. And Holly showed up out there after awhile,
and he made the statement to me that he thinks he knew a man--that is
the way he put it, that he thought he saw one of the men out there that
was in the basement of the city hall who knew something about that. And
I said, "Who was it," and he said, "I couldn't tell you, but I would
know him if I saw him."
Mr. HUBERT. Did he say the man was in uniform?
Mr. SOLOMON. Yes; he said he saw him out there at Parkland Hospital, so
I tried to check.
Mr. HUBERT. This was told you at Parkland Hospital?
Mr. SOLOMON. Yes; this afternoon.
Mr. HUBERT. The 24th?
Mr. SOLOMON. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he indicate that he thought he was a reserve officer?
Mr. SOLOMON. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. That is why he told it to you, I suppose?
Mr. SOLOMON. Yes; right. So I tried to find out who he was talking
about, and he went with me and we couldn't find anybody that he thought
he saw. And just from the way he talked to me, I just lost confidence
in what he was trying to tell me. But I pursued it as far as I could,
naturally, and asked him if he could identify some pictures, and I got
all the pictures of the men that reported out there, and he picked out
this man. And from there on, I didn't question him any further.
Mr. HUBERT. He did pick out the picture of W. J. Newman and he said
that was the man?
Mr. SOLOMON. He said he thought it was, it looked most like him. I
don't think that it was, but it looked most like him.