Mr. HUBERT. Did he show any anger at you then?
Lieutenant REVILL. Yes; I think it was a carryover from the first
interview, but this was a strategy that we used. Let him be angry with
me, thinking maybe that he might tell us something, but he never did.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you mention Harrison's name on the second interview?
Lieutenant REVILL. I possibly did, but at this time he was more
composed, and there was no--I don't recall any outbursts.
Mr. HUBERT. I gather that the second interview was not fruitful, in
that nothing----
Lieutenant REVILL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. No information was gathered?
Lieutenant REVILL. Neither interview was fruitful, other than from his
outburst. It led me to believe that possibly he had talked to some
officer, or had been seen by some officer prior to the shooting, but I
was never able to confirm this.
Mr. HUBERT. At the time you saw Ruby, I take it you had not interviewed
this man, Ray Rushing?
Lieutenant REVILL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. And didn't know anything about it?
Lieutenant REVILL. No, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. By the way, how did you find out about it?
Lieutenant REVILL. He called me.
Mr. HUBERT. Ray Rushing called you?
Lieutenant REVILL. Yes; I had assisted him, oh, approximately a year
ago on a problem he was having with one of his preachers. He has got
several preachers in his employment, and it was--involved a theft, and
I was able to assist him, and he called me.
Mr. HUBERT. What date, about?
Lieutenant REVILL. When he called me?
Mr. HUBERT. Yes.
Lieutenant REVILL. It was during the trial. During the picking of the
jurors. The specific date, I do not recall.
Mr. HUBERT. Anyhow, he came in and you interviewed him and made a
verbal report to Alexander.
Lieutenant REVILL. Oh, Alexander was present at the interview.
Mr. HUBERT. Do you know whether the result of that interview was passed
to the FBI or to any Government agencies?
Lieutenant REVILL. No, sir; it was not.
Mr. HUBERT. Nor is there a written report?
Lieutenant REVILL. No, sir; no written report. Rushing was reluctant to
take the stand.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he say why?
Lieutenant REVILL. Yes, he did. Because of his fight with the liquor
industry they would use this to fight him with. Any publicity they
might get of a derogatory nature would hurt him. We tried to emphasize
the point that this would not be derogatory publicity.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you point out to him that the position was somewhat
inconsistent with the fact that he was a volunteer?
Lieutenant REVILL. Yes.
Mr. HUBERT. What did he say?
Lieutenant REVILL. He decided he would testify if his testimony was
needed.
Mr. HUBERT. What was his statement as to his original motivation for
reporting this matter, that is to say, that he had seen Ruby?
Lieutenant REVILL. I don't believe he ever said what motivated him to
report this incident.
Mr. HUBERT. Was he ever asked, that you know of, why he had delayed so
long?
Lieutenant REVILL. Yes, sir; I asked him that myself.
Mr. HUBERT. What did he say?
Lieutenant REVILL. Well, he used the same story, that he did not want
to become involved in this thing because of his fight or his crusade to
dry up the liquor industry.
Mr. HUBERT. But, how did he then explain the fact that he had
volunteered?
Lieutenant REVILL. He didn't explain it. Now, this is an assumption on
my part. I believe this is why Mr. Alexander was reluctant to use him,
because Mr. Rushing is the type that there is a Communist under each
tree or each rock.
Mr. HUBERT. How old a man is Rushing?
Lieutenant REVILL. Late forty's, or early fifty's.
Mr. HUBERT. Has he been in the Dallas area long?
Lieutenant REVILL. No, sir; he had just recently moved to Dallas from
South Dakota. He tells me he is a personal friend of Senator Mundt and
the Governor of South Dakota and other influential people, which may or
may not be true.
Mr. HUBERT. Did you check to see whether he actually does have a church?
Lieutenant REVILL. Yes, sir; he is on the radio throughout the Nation.
Mr. HUBERT. Now, you showed me prior to the commencement of this
deposition, a large folder which you identified as--which is identified
from the title page of the jacket cover "File No. INT--"
Lieutenant REVILL. That's intelligence.
Mr. HUBERT. "Intelligence 25--1 through INT--intelligence 25--subject
Jack Ruby, DPD," which, I believe means Dallas Police Department.
"36398," which is the jacket, I suppose, and folder of the special
services bureau?
Lieutenant REVILL. Well, yes.
Mr. HUBERT. And you also advise me that most of this information, or
most of this folder, all except actually the first five pages are
reports that have been built up after the shooting?
Lieutenant REVILL. Yes, sir; this is correct.
Mr. HUBERT. You state to me also, I think, that this jacket has been
made available to the Secret Service?
Lieutenant REVILL. Yes, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Did they make copies of it? Do you know?
Lieutenant REVILL. They made copies of much of this information.
Mr. HUBERT. You dealt with Mr. Sorrels?
Lieutenant REVILL. Not directly with Mr. Sorrels himself. Some of his
agents. If I might use that, I might be able to explain it more fully.
If it is necessary for the record----
Mr. HUBERT. Well, I was considering making it a part of the record,
but I don't want, obviously, to take it away from you and I don't have
authority at the present time to subpena it.
Lieutenant REVILL. I will make you copies of anything you want.
Mr. HUBERT. That is what I wanted to get at. If copies have been
made already and turned over to the Secret Service, that would be
unnecessary.
Lieutenant REVILL. For example, here was toll calls, telephone
long-distance calls placed from the telephone at the Carousel at
1312-1/2 Commerce. The Ruby residence, at 223 South Ewing, and also
the Vegas Club at 3508 Oak Lawn, and also his sister's residence, Eva
Grant's.
Mr. HUBERT. As of what date?
Lieutenant REVILL. These go back to September 24, 1963,
through--correction on that. Some of them go back to May of 1963.
Mr. HUBERT. Well, let's deal with it this way, suppose I check to see
how much of this the Secret Service, or the FBI has?
Lieutenant REVILL. The FBI has this, because I gave it to them
personally.
Mr. HUBERT. The whole thing?