Mr. GRIFFIN. What did you do after you moved your car out on Commerce
Street?
Chief BATCHELOR. Shortly after that just within a few minutes these
armored cars arrived.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where were you standing when the armored cars arrived?
Chief BATCHELOR. I was in the basement, but somebody told me down
there, shouted that these armored cars had arrived, so I came up again
out of the ramp to look at the two cars to see which one we wanted. I
looked in the inside of the larger armored car and decided that this
one is the one we would have to use because it had room not only for
the prisoner, but two guards to be placed in there with him.
And this one--Mr. Hall, I believe is his name--I think it is Mr. Hall
that drove the truck up there. And this truck was too large or too tall
to drive clear to the foot of the basement ramp. It wouldn't clear
this ceiling at that point, so I asked Mr. Hall to back it in, and he
started backing it in, and he got the truck inside of the ramp with
all of the body inside and the cab on the outside, on the sidewalk. He
stopped and suggested that he not go to the bottom of the ramp with it
because of its weight. He was afraid that in trying to pull out, he
might kill the motor and stall it on the ramp, and suggested that since
it blocked the entrance, if we could use it from that point, he would
rather it go from that point.
Mr. GRIFFIN. At the point this conversation took place, had you or
anyone else to your knowledge told Hall what route would be taken?
Chief BATCHELOR. No; we told him he would follow a lead car, and
pointed out the car that he would follow.
Mr. GRIFFIN. At that point, did you indicate to him how soon it would
be before Oswald would be brought down?
Chief BATCHELOR. No, sir; this truck was parked in the ramp, and I
thought that this would be a safe place to park it because on one side
of the truck next to the west wall of the ramp there was only about
12 inches of space. And between the truck and the east wall, there
was only 18 to 24 inches of space. I placed an officer between the
west wall and the truck, which totally blocked it. And I placed two
officers between the truck and the east wall, and that totally blocked
that. Then I believe it was Lieutenant Smart and I got in the truck and
searched it. We found a soft drink bottle in the truck, which we took
out. I found a loose bolt lying on the floor, which I took out.
There was a device on the back side of the truck which was sort of a
gauge and a lever which I didn't understand what it was and I asked
Mr. Hall what that was, and he said it was an emergency brake in the
event something happened to the driver, that whoever was in the back of
the truck could pull that lever and stop the truck. We got these items
out of the truck and took them away, left the back doors of the truck
open to receive the prisoner, and then I went back down to the foot of
the ramp and waited, and in a few minutes shortly after the arrival of
the truck, Chief Stevenson came down, and this was, oh, nearly 11:30.
It was just a matter of minutes before--and told me of the change
of plans, and that they were going to send the truck in convoy down
through Elm Street, and that the car carrying----
Mr. GRIFFIN. You mean Main Street?
Chief BATCHELOR. No; Elm Street, and that the truck carrying Oswald
and a car of detectives would drop out of the convoy, out on Main
Street and drive down Main Street by themselves. In other words, the
truck was to be a decoy, and the lead car and all the other cars would
follow it on down Elm Street, while the car carrying the prisoner would
go down Main Street.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What security was there going to be?
Chief BATCHELOR. We had moved the officers over from Elm Street to Main
Street on the corner. The only security would have been a car carrying
detectives, following the car carrying the prisoner and detectives.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How were the officers moved, by a radio dispatcher, or was
somebody sent out?
Chief BATCHELOR. A sergeant was sent out, a three-wheeler. Talbert had
it done. I don't recall who did that.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you know at this point whether there was an
officer stationed at the corner of Main and Commerce? Main and Pearl
Expressway?
Chief BATCHELOR. No; I don't know whether there was or not.
(Short recess had.)
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. GRIFFIN. Why don't we state this for the record, that we have had
a recess and an off-the-record discussion between Mr. Griffin and
Chief Batchelor, and so that the record may be clear about where the
policemen who were to guard the route which was originally planned for
the transfer of Oswald, on the streets of the city of Dallas, I will
let Chief Batchelor at this time explain where they were originally to
be stationed, and where they were moved to.
Chief BATCHELOR. They were originally stationed along Elm Street, and
later were moved to Main Street where the prisoner would actually go.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I believe that before we took the recess that I was asking
you if at the time that you were down in the basement and examining the
armored car, you were aware that a man was or was not stationed at the
corner of Main and Pearl Expressway?
Chief BATCHELOR. I do not know. I was not aware. I hadn't given that
any thought at the time. Actually, Main and Expressway would pose no
traffic problem of a turning movement, at that point, because Pearl
Expressway, which is a one-way street, and the convoy would have
been next to the curb, and it would pose no problem at this point,
trafficwise.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When Chief Stevenson came downstairs and told you that the
route had been changed, where did he tell you that the caravan would
turn off Commerce Street?
Chief BATCHELOR. On Central Expressway.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When it turned left on Central Expressway, where would it
next turn?
Chief BATCHELOR. The convoy would go to Elm Street, but the prisoner
and a car of detectives would turn off at Main.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did you discuss with him the reasoning behind this
decoy?
Chief BATCHELOR. I merely asked him why the change, and he said they
decided to change it up in the Homicide Bureau in a discussion with
Chief Curry, because if anyone attacked, they would have the prisoner
in a car separate from the convoy and the public would not know this,
and they thought this would be a wise move.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now you all were aware that the TV cameras were going to
be focusing on the car or the vehicle that Oswald was placed in, didn't
you? The people in the downtown streets wouldn't be able to see that,
but there were also newsmen down there who were broadcasting and they
would be able to tell people listening in on the radio what car?
Chief BATCHELOR. You are arguing with me. I had nothing to do with
moving the prisoner.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I didn't mean to argue with you, chief.
Chief BATCHELOR. I didn't make the decision and I don't know whether it
was wise or not. It is a moot question now.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Well, now, what next happened after you talked with Chief
Stevenson about this change in plan?
Chief BATCHELOR. This happened when he told me about it, just moments
before they actually brought him down, and he told me they were
bringing a car up on the ramp, two cars up on the ramp, one to carry
the prisoner and one to carry the detectives.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Let me go back one bit here. You stated that you came
down. This one time you are talking about was an episode where you
went through the armored car, and this would have been your third trip
downstairs?
Chief BATCHELOR. And my last one.
Mr. GRIFFIN. And your last one. Now the first trip that you came
down the stairs was when you saw these reserve officers over by the
elevators?
Chief BATCHELOR. Actually, that was the second trip down, I believe.
Mr. GRIFFIN. That would have been about what time?
Chief BATCHELOR. Oh, probably 10 or 10:15, somewhere along in there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I see. So that the trip that we have been referring to
in the past, the 10:45 trip, is really most clearly distinguished by
the----
Chief BATCHELOR. I may be a little mixed up on my time, but the last
trip, the trip we are talking about when we searched the armored car
and put that in place, that was fairly close to the movement of the
prisoner, and I would say somewhere around 10:45 to 11 o'clock.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now that happened somewhere around 11:20?
Chief BATCHELOR. About 10:45.
Mr. GRIFFIN. But you never went back upstairs, from the time that you
moved your automobile up onto Commerce Street and the time that you
searched the armored car?
Chief BATCHELOR. No; Chief Stevenson did, but I didn't.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How long would you say you were downstairs from the time
that you walked down and moved your car out on the street and Oswald
arrived?
Chief BATCHELOR. Possibly 30 minutes or 35.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now after you finished examining the armored car and
you talked with Chief Stevenson, did you get a chance to look at the
placement of the news personnel, the news media people in the basement?
Chief BATCHELOR. Shortly before he came down, yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now looking toward the Main Street ramp, how many rows
deep, if there was more than one row at all, were the policemen who
were blocking the Main Street ramp?
Chief BATCHELOR. How many rows deep were the policemen?
Mr. GRIFFIN. I'm sorry, the news people, if you understand what I mean?
Chief BATCHELOR. There was about, as I remember it, about two deep
along there. Some places there might have been a third man behind, but
most about two deep.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Would you come here and mark along the Main Street ramp
about how deep these people were?
Chief BATCHELOR. [Marking.] There weren't many along there because
there were cameras there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How many people would you estimate were in that area there?
Chief BATCHELOR. Oh, there couldn't have been too many in that
particular area there. It is only 15 feet wide, maybe 20 or 25 in
there, maybe 30.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, just before Oswald was brought down, where were the
rest of the news people placed?
Chief BATCHELOR. They were along here.
Mr. GRIFFIN. That is blocking the garage entrance?
Chief BATCHELOR. Yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN. About how many people would you say were in that area?
Chief BATCHELOR. I don't know. Altogether there must have been, gee,
we had around 70 policemen in that basement altogether, and there must
have been 60 or 70 reporters and photographers and press people. They
were fairly deep across here. But this is wider and they were two or
three deep across there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You want to mark in there where you have indicated?