Mr. GRIFFIN. Where was that?
Chief BATCHELOR. This was from the Armored Motor Car Service.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Where is that located?
Chief BATCHELOR. It is on--what is the name of that street?
Mr. GRIFFIN. In the downtown area?
Chief BATCHELOR. It just borders on the downtown area. It is off of
Ross Avenue.
Mr. GRIFFIN. North or south?
Chief BATCHELOR. It is north of Ross Avenue. I should think of the name
of the street. It is an old street here, but I just can't think of it
offhand.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What is the name of the armored car company again?
Chief BATCHELOR. Armored Motor Car Service. It is actually a Fort Worth
company who services both Dallas and Fort Worth, and they have an
office here, too.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Go ahead.
Chief BATCHELOR. After this, I told him that I thought I could get one.
I then went to the city directory to see who was in charge here, where
I might get ahold of his phone number. And I called the vice president
at his home. This was on Sunday morning. It was before he had gone to
church. It must have been somewhere around 9 o'clock.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you give us the name of the vice president?
Chief BATCHELOR. It was Mr. Fleming. Mr. Fleming was the vice
president, and I talked to him at his home, and he told me that he
would be glad to furnish us one. As a matter of fact, he had two trucks
which we could take our choice. One was a small truck, but would
accommodate only one passenger in the back. The other one was what they
call an overland truck, and it had seats on either side in the back and
would accommodate several people.
And I said, "I don't know whether this will go down to the basement or
not." But I asked him how tall it was and he said he didn't know, but
he would have it measured and let me know. And I told him that I would
find out what the height of the ramp was. We have a low place in the
ramp as you go down at the bottom of the ramp, and it is only 7 feet 5
inches tall at that point, so I found out what that height was, and I
called him back.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now at the time you first talked with Mr. Fleming, did you
indicate to him what time you would need the armored vehicle?
Chief BATCHELOR. Yes; I told him sometime around 10 or a little after.
And he said he would get there as quickly as possible. He had to
call a crew down to man the truck. And Mr. Hall, who is their Dallas
representative here, brought the truck down with another driver driving
the small one.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When was the truck brought down?
Chief BATCHELOR. It was brought down--probably it wasn't at 10 o'clock,
because they didn't get there that early. It must have been closer to
11 o'clock when they finally got down there with it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you say anything else to Mr. Fleming during this first
telephone conversation? Did you tell him anything about the route?
Chief BATCHELOR. I don't believe that I told him the route we were
going to take, no. I know I didn't tell him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. While you were on the telephone with Mr. Fleming, where
was Chief Curry, if you know?
Chief BATCHELOR. He was in his office. I called Mr. Fleming from my
office. I left his office and went into my office and called him.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Chief Stevenson, where was he?
Chief BATCHELOR. He was either in his office or in Chief Curry's office
with him. We were all together.
Mr. GRIFFIN. At the time that Curry got off the first telephone call
with Decker, was there anything that Stevenson was supposed to do?
Chief BATCHELOR. Well, he and I both, under Chief Curry's instructions,
he said you'd better go downstairs and see what manpower you will need
to cover that basement down there. One other thing, Chief Lumpkin had
come in and he was the man I asked to find out for me how tall that
ramp was down there, what the clearance was.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now, did Lumpkin go down there before or after you called
Fleming?
Chief BATCHELOR. I think he went down there. He called somebody down
that knew how tall it was, but that was after I talked to Fleming the
first time.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Does your office, Chief, maintain any records of outgoing
telephone calls?
Chief BATCHELOR. No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN. At the time that you were talking to Fleming, between the
time that the chief talked with Decker and you talked with Fleming,
would there have been any occasion for a dispatcher to make any
particular communication to the people in the field as a result of the
conversation with Decker?
Chief BATCHELOR. No, sir. As a matter of fact, nobody knew this. I
mean, except the few people on the staff.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I realize that nobody would have known about the
particular contents of the conversation, but what I am getting at is,
is there any reason that somebody might have said at this point he knew
you were going to have to make a move, you'd better dispatch the men
in? You'd better send out a general call to bring in more men?
Chief BATCHELOR. This would have been handled in a telephone
conversation with the dispatcher, yet nobody would know the real reason
for it. Talbert did have some men called in. He did have some men
called in.
Mr. GRIFFIN. How did Talbert come to make this call in relation to the
conversation?
Chief BATCHELOR. I don't know, unless he was anticipating. Well,
I don't know how to say it. It had gotten on the radio and in the
newspapers and everywhere else that this was going to be at 10 o'clock,
I presume, because there was people all up and down the street, across
the street from the city hall on Commerce waiting for this thing to
happen.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were they waiting there when you came in at 8 o'clock?
Chief BATCHELOR. Oh, there wasn't anybody there that early, but they
were down there around 10 o'clock.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Can you think of anything that might have happened in the
ordinary course of things after Decker and Curry talked, that would
have been recorded in the police department?
Chief BATCHELOR. About the movement of the prisoner?
Mr. GRIFFIN. No. I am particularly referring to the movement of the
prisoner, but I am thinking of something that might pinpoint the time
in which this conversation with Decker occurred, that Curry might have
said at this point, "All right, Stevenson, bring in so many men," and
Stevenson would have told the dispatcher to send out a call, and nobody
would have known the purpose of the call, but it would fix a time?
Chief BATCHELOR. Stevenson went back after we determined we were going
to have to secure the basement and move the prisoner. He went back to
his bureau and had them send some men down there, some detectives.
He didn't have to call them from the field. He had them back there.
Talbert sent out and got some men, and I don't know whose direction
he did that on, but we went down there to see what manpower we would
need. And when we got there, he had them there, and where he got this
information, I don't know.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Now after you talked with Fleming the first time, what did
you do? After you finished that telephone conversation?
Chief BATCHELOR. We went downstairs and that is when we had instructed
them--it was Wiggins, I believe, in the jail office, to get that camera
out of there. And we instructed them--Curry went down with us, too, and
there were two cars sitting across from the jail exit door. They were
sitting in these places right here.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You want to take a pen and mark?
Chief BATCHELOR. And we had these cars moved [marking on exhibit].
Mr. GRIFFIN. What time of the morning would you estimate that was?
Chief BATCHELOR. This must have been about 9:30 or 9:15, somewhere
along in there.
Mr. GRIFFIN. You want to mark what you think the approximate time was
in between the two cars where you marked?