INTERVIEW BETWEEN THE AUTHOR AND PRESIDENT CLEVELAND AND SECRETARY
GRESHAM
When Mr. Cleveland was inaugurated in 1893, I was Auditor of the
Treasury for the Navy Department. Hon. J.G. Carlisle, of Kentucky, had
been made Secretary of the Treasury. My resignation had been tendered,
the acceptance of which I expected to see announced any day, but the
change did not take place until August of that year.
While seated at my desk one day a messenger from the White House made
his appearance, and I was informed that the President desired to see me
in person. When I arrived at the White House I was immediately ushered
into the President's private office, where he was seated alone at a desk
engaged in reading a book or a magazine. It was at an hour when he was
not usually accessible to the public. He received me in a very cordial
way. He informed me that there was an important matter about which he
desired to talk with me--to get the benefit of my opinion and
experience. He assured me of his friendly interest in the colored
people. It was his determination that they should have suitable and
appropriate recognition under his administration. He said he was very
much opposed to the color line in politics. There was no more reason why
a man should be opposed or discriminated against on account of his race
than on account of his religion. He believed it to be the duty of the
Democratic party to encourage the colored voters to divide their votes,
and the best way to do this was to accord to that race the same relative
consideration, the same treatment, and to give the race the same
recognition that is given other races and classes of which our
citizenship is composed. The party line is the only one that should be
drawn. He would not appoint a colored Republican to office merely for
the purpose of giving official recognition to the colored race, nor
would he refuse to appoint a colored Democrat simply because he was
colored. If this course were pursued, and this policy adopted and
adhered to by the Democratic party, the colored voters who are in
harmony with that party on questions about which white men usually
divide, could see their way clear to vote in accordance with their
convictions upon such issues, and would not be obliged to vote against
the party with which they may be in harmony on account of that party's
attitude towards them as a race. "In other words," he said, "it is a
well-known fact that there are thousands of colored men who vote the
Republican ticket at many important elections,--not from choice but
from what they believe to be a necessity. If the views entertained by me
on this subject should be accepted by the Democratic party, as I hope
and believe they will be, that necessity,--real or imaginary,--would no
longer exist, and the gradual division of the colored vote would
necessarily follow."
He went on to say that he had not hesitated to express himself fully,
freely and frankly with members of his own party on the subject, and
that he had informed them of the course he intended to pursue; but that
he had been advised against appointing any colored man to an office in
which white women were employed.
"Now," said the President, "since you have been at the head of an
important bureau in the Treasury Department during the past four years,
a bureau in which a number of white women are employed as clerks, I
desire very much to know what has been your experiences along those
lines." I informed the President that I would take pleasure in giving
him the information desired. I assured him that if my occupancy of that
office had been the occasion of the slightest embarrassment to anyone
connected with the public service,--whether in the office over which I
presided or any other,--that fact had never been brought to my notice.
On the contrary, I had every reason to believe that no one who had
previously occupied the position enjoyed the respect, good-will and
friendship of the clerks and other employees to a greater extent than
was enjoyed by me. My occupancy of that office had more than
demonstrated the fact, if such were necessary, that official position
and social contact were separate and distinct. My contact with the
clerks and other employees of the office was official, not social.
During office hours they were subject to my direction and supervision in
the discharge of their official duties, and I am pleased to say that all
of them, without a single exception, have shown me that courtesy,
deference and respect due to the head of the office. After office hours
they went their way and I went mine. No new social ties were created and
none were broken or changed as the result of the official position
occupied by me. I assured the President, that, judging from my own
experience, he need not have the slightest apprehension of any
embarrassment, friction or unpleasantness growing out of the appointment
of a colored man of intelligence, good judgment and wise discretion as
head of any bureau in which white women were employed.
I could not allow the interview to close without expressing to the
President my warm appreciation of his fair, just, reasonable and
dignified position on the so-called race question.
"Your attitude," I said, "if accepted in good faith by your party, will
prove to be the solution of this mythical race problem. Although I am a
pronounced Republican, yet, as a colored American, I am anxious to have
such a condition of things brought about as will allow a colored man to
be a Democrat if he so desires. I believe you have stated the case
accurately when you say that thousands of colored men have voted the
Republican ticket at important elections, from necessity and not from
choice. As a Republican, it is my hope that colored as well as white
men, act with and vote for the candidates of that party when worthy and
meritorious, but as a colored American, I want them to be so situated
that they can vote that way from choice and not from necessity. No man
can be a free and independent American citizen who is obliged to
sacrifice his convictions upon the altar of his personal safety. The
attitude of the Democratic party upon this so-called race question has
made the colored voter a dependent, and not an independent, American
citizen. The Republican party emancipated him from physical bondage, for
which he is grateful. It remains for the Democratic party to emancipate
him from political bondage, for which he will be equally grateful. You
are engaged, Mr. President, in a good and glorious work. As a colored
man I thank you for the brave and noble stand you have taken. God grant
that you, as a Democrat, may have influence enough to get the Democratic
party as an organization to support you in the noble stand you have so
bravely taken."
The President thanked me for my expressions of good-will, and thus
terminated what to me was a remarkable as well as a pleasant and most
agreeable interview.
A few days later a messenger from the State Department called at my
office and informed me that the Secretary of State, Judge Gresham,
desired to see me. Judge Gresham and I had been warm personal friends
for many years. He had occupied many positions of prominence and
responsibility. He had been a major-general in the Union army, and was
with Sherman's army during that celebrated March through Georgia. He was
one of the leading candidates for the Presidential nomination before the
National Republican Convention at Chicago in 1888, when General Benjamin
Harrison, of Indiana, was nominated.
I was a member of that Convention and one of Judge Gresham's active
supporters. In the campaign that followed Judge Gresham gave General
Harrison his active and loyal support, but, for some unaccountable
reason, he supported Mr. Cleveland against General Harrison in 1892. Mr.
Cleveland was not only elected, but, contrary to public expectation, he
carried the State of Illinois,--a State in which Judge Gresham was known
to be very popular, especially among the colored people of Chicago;
many of whom, it was said, voted for Mr. Cleveland through the efforts
and influence of Judge Gresham. Mr. Cleveland evidently believed that
his success in Illinois was due largely to Judge Gresham, and as
evidence of that fact, and because Judge Gresham was known to be a very
able man, Mr. Cleveland paid him the distinguished honor of appointing
him to the leading position in his cabinet,--that of Secretary of State.
When I called at the State Department the Judge invited me to a seat in
his private office. He said there was an important matter about which he
desired to talk with me. My name, he said, had been the subject of a
recent conversation between the President and himself. The President, he
said, was well aware of the cordial relations existing between us, and
believed that if any man could influence my action he, Gresham, was that
man.
"Now," said the Judge, "the President has formed a very favorable
opinion of you. He is anxious to have you remain at the head of the
important bureau over which you are now presiding in such a creditable
and satisfactory manner. But you understand that it is a political
office. As anxious as the President is to retain you, and as anxious as
I am to have him do so, he could not do it and you could neither ask nor
expect him to do it, unless you were known to be in sympathy with, and a
supporter of, his administration,--at least in the main. Now, you know
that I am not only your friend, but that I am a friend to the colored
people. I know you are a Republican. So am I; but I am a Cleveland man.
Cleveland is a better Republican than Harrison. In supporting Cleveland
against Harrison I am no less a Republican. As your friend I would not
advise you to do anything that would militate against your interests.
Knowing, as you do, that I am not only your friend but also a good
Republican, you can at least afford to follow where I lead. I want you,
then, to authorize me to say to the President that you are in sympathy
with the main purposes of his administration as explained to you by me,
and that his decision to retain you in your present position will be
fully and keenly appreciated by you."
In my reply I stated that while I was very grateful to the Judge for his
friendly interest in me, and while I highly appreciated the President's
good opinion of me, it would not be possible for me to consent to retain
the position I then occupied upon the conditions named.
"If," I said, "it is the desire of the President to have me remain in
charge of that office during his administration or any part thereof, I
would be perfectly willing to do so if I should be permitted to remain
free from any conditions, pledges, promises or obligations. The
conditions suggested mean nothing more nor less than that I shall
identify myself with the Democratic party. The President has no office
at his disposal the acceptance or retention of which could be a
sufficient inducement for me to take such a step as that. I agree with
what you have said about Mr. Cleveland, so far as he is personally
concerned. I have every reason to believe that he has a friendly
interest in the colored people and that he means to do the fair thing by
them so far as it may be in his power. But he was elected as a Democrat.
He is the head of a National Democratic Administration. No man can be
wholly independent of his party,--a fact recognized in the conditions
suggested in my own case. I don't think that Mr. Cleveland is what would
be called in my part of the country a good Democrat, because I believe
he is utterly devoid of race prejudice, and is not in harmony with those
who insist upon drawing the color line in the Democratic party. In my
opinion he is in harmony with the Democratic party only on one important
public question,--the tariff. On all others,--the so-called race
question not excepted,--he is in harmony with what I believe to be
genuine Republicanism. Still, as I have already stated, he was elected
as a Democrat; and, since he holds that the office now occupied by me is
a political one, it ought to be filled by one who is in political
harmony with the administration. I am not that man; for I cannot
truthfully say that I am in harmony with the main purposes of the
administration."
The Judge remarked that my decision was a disappointment to him, and he
believed that I would some day regret having made it, but that he would
communicate to the President the result of our interview. In spite of
this, my successor, Morton, a Democrat from Maine, was not appointed
until the following August.