* * * * *
_The Albocracy._
In this country (India), as in all others, there are certain established
qualifications for justices of the peace and for jurymen, and no
disqualification, in any part of the world, is equal to that of colour.
The white man has an influence which the black man has not. This
distinction prevails most in those countries in which a liberal system
of Government has been established, as in the United States of America,
and the various states existing in the southern portion of that
continent. Indeed, a term has been invented to designate it in Columbia,
in which express laws have been made for the support and maintenance of
the "Albocracy."
_August_ 14, 1832.
* * * * *
_Effect of the Savings of the Grey Government_.
I give the noble Earl at the head of his Majesty's Government full
credit for the diminution in the expenses of the country which has been
effected by the Government, but I cannot help thinking that such
diminutions will prove to be generally detrimental to the country,
inasmuch as they are effected merely for the purpose of meeting a
deficiency in the revenue for the moment. But the fact is, that many of
these reductions are applicable to the army, to the navy, to the
militia, and other most essential services of the country, which,
although not estimated for this year, must be provided for at a future
period. For instance, one branch of these savings is that for training
the militia; the saving, under this head, is 190,000 l.; but it is quite
clear that this sum must again be expended when the militia shall be
trained in future years. Another saving is that of freight, transport,
and provisions of soldiers from one part of the world to another. Now,
it is very true, that during the present year this reduction may be
made, because it does not happen that the change of regiments in the
West India colonies and India takes place; but such will not be the case
in another year, and the expenditure of 45,000 l. on that head, which
does not appear in these estimates, must again occur.
Another item of reduction is in the purchase of timber for the navy
service, which amounts to the very considerable sum of 400,000 l. It is
evident that the magazines of this country must be kept up, and all that
is really done by this apparent saving, is to throw the burden, to this
extent, on future years. With a view to a secure and adequate supply,
and to the proper seasoning of stores, and with a view to the
probability that it may become necessary for his Majesty's service to
make some great exertion, it is impossible that less than double the
amount of the estimate of the present year under this head, can
permanently suffice. Now, it is impossible to look upon these savings in
any other light than as temporary, and I will go so far as to say that
it would have been a much better principle of economy to spend this
money than to save it, if the distressed state of the finances had not
absolutely required the reduction of the expenditure. But I cannot help
taking another view of the subject. It is necessary for the country, and
essential to the character of the Government, that they should look
beyond a mere balance of income and expenditure, with a view to be
prepared for unforeseen emergencies which may arise. Can any body say,
that the Government is now left in the situation in which it ought to be
left with respect to finances? This is the last session of the present
Parliament. A reformed Parliament will meet next session, and it is
impossible for any man to say what will be the conduct of that
Parliament with respect to finance. But this is not the only ground on
which it is desirable that the finances of the country should be in a
more satisfactory state.
I say, my Lords, that I regard these financial difficulties with the
greater apprehension, when I remember that occasions may arise, and are
in fact, likely to arise, in which it may be necessary for his Majesty
to call forth all the resources of the country. When I look to the state
of Ireland, when I turn my attention to our foreign relations, and above
all, when I call to mind the present condition of the Peninsula, I find
it impossible to shut my eyes to the alarming truth, that events are on
the eve of occurring, which may call forth to the utmost, every
exertion which Englishmen are capable of making, and may demand, as I
have said before, all the resources of the empire.
_August_ 15, 1832.
_Policy of the Wellington Administration towards Portugal_.
The noble Earl (Grey) has stated, that the late government was the cause
of the usurpation of Don Miguel. Now that is a mistake in point of time;
for it will be found that Don Miguel was brought to Portugal, when the
noble Viscount opposite, (Viscount Goderich) was at the head of the
government. It is true that I was in office when Don Miguel landed in
Portugal, and when he usurped the government over which he was placed as
Regent. The noble Earl has stated, that at that time the British army
was there, and might have prevented the usurpation. I deny the fact; the
British Army had been withdrawn before the usurpation. It is true that,
before the army was withdrawn, Miguel had dissolved the Chambers, and
had given indications that it was not his intention to carry into effect
the constitution of the country; but he had given no indication of a
resolution to usurp the Sovereign power; and that usurpation was
occasioned by a decree of the Cortes, acquired for that purpose. In
point of fact the army was withdrawn; and even if it had not been
withdrawn, what was its force? Why it only amounted to 5,000 men, which
would not have been enough to effect anything. I deny therefore, that
the government has been the cause of the usurpation. When Don Miguel did
usurp the sovereign authority, the late government did all they could;
they ceased their diplomatic relations with Portugal, and then brought
away the minister from thence.
Then the noble Earl says, that the state of things just mentioned
existed when he came into office; and that the late government was
willing to recognize Don Miguel, provided he would grant a general
amnesty. The noble Earl has omitted to state all. It would have been
fair, had the noble Earl stated what had previously occurred. The first
thing we did was to advise a reconciliation between the two branches of
the House of Braganza, and we referred the question to Brazil. The
Emperor of Brazil was perfectly ready to go to war if we would make war
for him, but he would not go to war himself, because, in fact he had no
resources of his own to do so. What then became our duty? Our duty was
to place Portugal in the society of nations as soon as we could, and to
endeavour to induce Don Miguel to do that which would have the effect of
attaining that object. For that purpose, we called on Don Miguel to
reconcile the country to him, by some act of grace towards those who had
been connected with the former government of the country. But it is not
true that we desired to impose any condition with respect to that act
of grace. The principle on which we invariably acted was to make an act
of amnesty be given without any condition whatever, because it was our
wish not to interfere in any manner whatever with the government of
Portugal; and it would have been interfering, had we made any condition
which we might have been afterwards called upon to enforce. We would not
make ourselves responsible for that amnesty. We urged him repeatedly to
grant it, and if he had done so, he would most undoubtedly have been
recognized; and we fully expected, when that paragraph was inserted in
the King's Speech, that he would have given the amnesty, and have
enabled us to recognize him. I have no hesitation in saying, that I was
exceedingly anxious at that time to recognize this Prince, not because I
disputed the claim or right of the other branch of the House of
Braganza, nor because I ventured to decide upon that right, but I wanted
to do that which was done by the government of this country in a similar
case with respect to France,--I wanted to recognize the authority of the
king _de facto_, in order to enable him to carry on the government of
the country with advantage, not only to himself, and his country, but
also to Europe. If I had remained in office much longer, I would have
done it in order to remove from that country, and from Europe, the
inconveniences which have resulted from the existing state of things in
Portugal. It was not done before, because the amnesty was not given.
Much has been said about the cruelty of this Prince, and the hatred
borne towards him by the people of Portugal; but I think there has been
some extraordinary exaggeration upon that subject. The noble Earl states
that we left things in this state when he left office. It is perfectly
true; but we have, over and over again, pressed upon the noble Earl the
necessity of taking Portugal out of the state in which it was placed,
and of recognizing that government, with a view to prevent that state of
affairs which has since come to puss. The Emperor of Brazil has no power
to enter into a war in favor of his daughter, nor can she be put in
possession of Portugal, except by revolutionary means,--namely, by
employing bands of adventurers, collected in various quarters, and paid
by God knows whom.
_August_ 15, 1832.
* * * * *
_The Civil War in Portugal fomented by Earl Grey's Government_.
I believe if there be any country in the world in which it is both the
duty and interest of England to prevent the existence of hostilities,
that country is Portugal. We are bound by treaties to defend her, as she
is, in case of need, to defend England. It is affirmed that we are under
engagements to preserve a strict neutrality towards the two Princes now
opposed to each other in Portugal; but we are bound in honour and good
policy to protect that country, in which his Majesty's subjects have
such interests invested, and with which they carry on such extensive
commerce: yet the present government have hazarded all these interests
by permitting this war to be carried on there by a foreign power. The
king, in his speech, calls it, indeed, a "civil war." My Lords, it is a
revolutionary war--a war carried on by means furnished in this town, and
for the advance of which the inducement is the hope of plunder. It is
carried on by persons who have no interest in the war excepting plunder.
Yet this is the war which his Majesty has been advised by his servants
to call, upon the assembling of his parliament, "a civil war between the
two branches of the house of Braganza in Portugal." The king is made, by
his Ministers, to declare that he is anxiously desirous to put an end to
this war. "I shall not fail to avail myself of any opportunity that may
be afforded me to assist in restoring peace to a country with which the
interests of my dominions are so intimately connected." Now, I know
something of war, and I know something of war in that country; and I
will tell noble Lords how they can put an end to it at once. Let them
put forth a proclamation recalling his Majesty's subjects from the
service of both parties engaged in the contest,--let them, at the same
time, carry into execution the law of the country; let them, when the
commissioners of the customs, in the execution of their exclusive duty,
seize vessels carrying out troops, ammunition and officers, who, I am
able to prove, are at this moment serving in those armies, leave the
adjudication of such seizures to the proper tribunals; and let not the
King's ministers interfere, and let them employ the British fleet in the
Levant, and other places, to which the attention of his Majesty's
government ought to be directed, instead of being employed in watching
the shores of the Douro and the Tagus--let them do all this, and they
will soon find that peace will be restored to Portugal without any
further sacrifice. But I am sorry to say these are not the measures
adopted by his Majesty's government, nor is the law carried into
execution by that government. My Lords, I engage to prove, that though
the commissioners of the customs did, in the autumn of 1831, detain
certain vessels in the Thames, having on board the very troops,
ammunition, and arms which have been since employed in this war; and
although these commissioners are, by the act of parliament, the persons
appointed to carry it into execution,--they were ordered, by a superior
power, not to interfere.
_February_ 5, 1833.
* * * * *
_Don Miguel de facto King of Portugal_.
Don Miguel having been appointed Sovereign by the Cortes, it was not the
business of the British government to offer any opposition to their
choice; and as long as we continued in office, we were seeking for the
means of recognizing Don Miguel as Sovereign, _de facto_, of Portugal.
In point of fact, I have no doubt, if we had remained in office a
fortnight longer, we should have effected that recognition; for it was
never intended to make the proposed amnesty an indispensable condition
of that step. Our object in recognizing him, was to prevent those
disasters which I apprehended must arise from the conflict of extreme
opinions in the Peninsula.
_February_ 5, 1833.
_The Catholic Oath is a Principle_.
His Majesty has sworn to maintain the established Church of England in
Ireland; and secondly, that in the very last arrangements made to remove
the disabilities, as well of the Dissenters from the church of England
as of the Roman Catholics of Ireland, words were inserted in the oaths
to be taken by them, for the security of the Protestant establishment. I
consider those oaths as principles; and that we ought not to run counter
to them in any manner whatever.
_February_ 5, 1833.
* * * * *
The Protestants of Ireland are the friends of order in Ireland, and they
are the natural friends and connections of England. I entreat you never
to lose sight of this important truth.
_February_ 5, 1833.
* * * * *
_The Game Laws increase Poaching_.
Since the passing of the Game Act, poaching has enormously increased. It
is consistent with my own knowledge, also, that as regards my own
estate, until this law passed, there was little or no poaching upon it,
but that evil has greatly increased since that period. In fact, not long
since, I lost a servant in an affray with poachers, and I at once
determined to give up preserving game; but I was induced to relinquish
my intention in consequence of learning that the keeper, whom I was
about to discharge, could not get employment in any other part of the
country. This, alone, is the reason why I still preserve my game. I am
thoroughly convinced that, in the neighbourhood in which I reside,
poaching has increased threefold since the passing of the present Act. I
think that result is entirely owing to the circumstance that the person
who is in possession of the game is entitled to carry it away and sell
it, and cannot be questioned as to the manner in which it came into his
possession.
_May 31, 1833._
* * * * *
_Importance of Portugal to England._
If there be any nation in the world for which more than another this
country feels--and justly feels--an interest, it is Portugal. The
alliance between this country and Portugal is among the most ancient to
be found in the history of nations; it is an alliance repeatedly
recognised by all Europe; it is one from which this country has derived
advantage almost from a period beyond memory; and for the preservation
of which, in better times than these, and in order to rescue that
country out of the hands of her enemies, she has expended her best blood
and treasure.
_June 3, 1833._
* * * * *
_The Emancipation Act of 1833 a Premature Measure_.
In the discussions on the abolition of the slave trade, it was more than
once declared by the advocates of that measure, that they had no
intention of following it up by an attempt at the abolition of slavery;
but, on the contrary, those who contended most strenuously for the
abolition of the slave trade, declared that it was not intended that it
should be followed up by the abolition of slavery in the colonies, but
that their intention was, by means of the abolition of the slave trade,
to ameliorate the condition of the slaves, and improve the state of
society in the colonies. But I will not believe, from all that I have
heard and read, that even the most earnest advocates of the abolition of
the slave trade intended, immediately, to follow up the amelioration of
the condition of the slave, by the total abolition of slavery. That men
should look forward to the abolition of slavery in the colonies as
consequent on the improvement in the state of society, and the state of
slavery, is probable; and there is no doubt that a great improvement has
resulted from the abolition of the slave trade, coupled with the
measure, but that the one step should be considered as an immediate
consequence of the other, I altogether deny; and I appeal with
confidence to the discussions which formerly took place.
* * * * *
In all countries, where it is proposed to make large bodies of slaves
free, the first thing that is described as necessary to be considered
is, whether the country is in a condition to bear the change; the
second, whether the slave whom it is proposed to constitute a freeman,
will work for hire? These are points with respect to which it has always
been considered necessary to have full and convincing proof before
emancipation should be granted. The noble Earl tells us that, in this
instance, there is no proof to the contrary. I think that there is proof
to the contrary. We have heard of the adoption of a measure of this
nature within the province of Colombia. But supposing it to be true,
that 100,000 liberated negroes have shewn a disposition to labour, or
have actually laboured for hire in Colombia, still I contend that that
circumstance affords no proof whatever that the same results would
follow from the liberation 700,000 or 800,000 negroes in the British
possessions. But I by no means concur with the noble Earl as to the
sufficiency of the case of Colombia, as a case in point. I have the
authority of a very intelligent person, who was resident in Colombia at
the time that the transaction took place, and who, in writing upon the
subject, states positively that the experiment was a most dangerous one;
and that although the liberated negroes laboured for awhile, yet that a
few years afterwards, they could not be got to work at all. This is
further proved by the fact, that in the course of four or five years it
was found necessary to introduce a measure for the promotion of
agriculture, which measure, it was admitted, was called for, in
consequence of the great difficulty that was found in getting the free
negroes to work.
_June_ 23, 1833.
_Difficulty of preventing free labour in the Colonies anticipated_.
Look at our own colonies in tropical climates, and see whether you can
find any disposition in the free negro to work in the low grounds. If
you look at Surinam, or any other of the tropical climates, where free
negroes are to be found, you will find a total absence of any
disposition, on their part, to work for hire, or for any other
consideration whatever. But says the noble Earl, "the negroes work in
Africa;" of that fact, begging the noble Earl's pardon, I do not think
he can produce any proof; but even supposing that he could, I contend
that the fact does not bear upon this question--the question here is not
whether the negro, in a state of freedom, will work in Africa, but
whether, being made free, he will voluntarily labour in the low grounds
in our possessions within the tropics? I say, that there is no proof of
such labour on the part of negroes, in any part of the world. In one
quarter of the globe, in which I have some knowledge, I am certainly
aware that men do labour very hard for hire in low grounds within the
tropics; but those men are in a condition but little removed from
absolute slavery, because they are the lowest in a state of society,
which from them upwards is divided into the strictest castes. But in our
West India possessions the case is very different; there, this
difficulty from the moment of their first discovery, to the present
hour, has always existed; a difficulty arising from the circumstance,
that in those tropical climates, a man instead of working for hire,
works only for food,--and having obtained that food, which he can
procure by very little exertion, he thinks of nothing save the luxury of
reposing in listless idleness beneath the shade. That is the great
difficulty which surrounds this question.
_June_ 25, 1833.
* * * * *
_Depressing the West India Colonies will lead to the Introduction of
Foreign Slave Grown Sugar_.
Supposing that the growth of the sugar should, from the causes I have
mentioned, fail in the West Indies, where are we to get sugar? We must
get it no doubt from the colonies of other countries, where it is
produced by the labour of slaves. What then, will those who are so
anxious for the abolition of slavery say, if, in consequence of this
measure, the slave trade should be revived, with all the added horrors
of its being carried on in a contraband manner; and if, instead of
decreasing the amount of slavery in the world, we should increase it, in
Cuba, and in the other foreign West India possessions, over which we
have no control, and into which it would be impossible for us to
introduce any measure, regulating or ameliorating the condition of the
slave.
At this moment we consume more of sugar, even excluding Ireland, than
all the rest of Europe put together; and I leave it to your Lordships to
consider whether it would be possible, under any circumstances whatever,
that this country could go on without a supply of that article. How can
that supply be furnished, supposing that the production in our colonies
should fail, except by the produce of slave labour from the colonies of
other countries?
_June_ 25, 1833.
* * * * *
_East India Company; Eulogium on its Administration_.
Having been so long a servant of the East India Company, whose interests
you are discussing, having served for so many years of my life in that
country, having had such opportunities of personally watching the
operation of the government of that country, and having had reason to
believe, both from what I saw at that time, and from what I have seen
since, that the Government of India was at that time, one of the best
and most purely administered governments that ever existed, and one
which has provided most effectually for the happiness of the people over
which it is placed, it is impossible that I should be present when a
question of this description is discussed, without asking your
Lordships' attention for a very short time whilst I deliver my opinion
upon the plan which his Majesty's ministers have brought forward. I will
not follow the noble Marquis who opened the debate, into the
consideration of whether a chartered company be the best, or not,
calculated to carry on the government or the trade of an empire like
India, that is not the question to which I wish now to apply myself. But
whenever I hear of such discussions as this, I recall to my memory what
I have seen in that country--I recall to my memory the history of that
country for the last fifty or sixty years. I remember its days of
misfortune, and its days of glory, and call to mind the situation in
which it now stands. I remember that the government have conducted the
affairs of--I will not pretend to say how many millions of people,--they
have been calculated at 70,000,000, 80,000,000, 90,000,000, and
100,000,000--but certainly of an immense population, a population
returning an annual revenue of 20,000,000 l. sterling, and that
notwithstanding all the wars in which the empire has been engaged its
debt at this moment amounts only to 40,000,000 l., being no more than the
amount of two years revenue. I do not say that such a debt is desirable;
but at the same time I contend that it is a delusion on the people of
this country to tell them that that is a body unfit for government, and
unfit for trade, which has administered the affairs of India with so
much success for so many years, and which is at length to be put
down,--for I can use no other term,--upon the ground that it is an
institution calculated for the purposes neither of government nor trade.
My Lords, there is a great difference between the East India Company
governing India, and carrying on their trade with China as a joint-stock
company, and carrying on the same trade as monopolists. It was my
opinion, and the opinion of those who acted with me, that we ought, in
the first instance, at all events, to have endeavoured to have prevailed
upon them to continue trading with China as a joint-stock company. If at
this moment, they had chosen to have continued to trade as a joint stock
company, I would have allowed them; I would have adopted measures for
the purpose of inducing them to do so, and to carry on the government of
India. It is perfectly true, my Lords, that the people of this country
were, and are, desirous of participating in the trade to China; but I am
not aware that they ever expressed a desire to see the company deprived
of any branch of that trade. But then, my Lords, the noble Lord asks,
"how would you secure to them their dividends?" Why, my Lords, their
dividends, supposing the trade had turned out so ill as the noble Lord
expects it would have done, would have been secured to them, as they
must be at present, by saving all unnecessary expense in India--those
dividends would have been secured to them, as they still will be, and as
under all circumstances they must be, by bringing down the whole
expences of the Government of the country. But we had another
resource--we might have relieved the East India Company, trading to
China no longer as a monopolist, but as a joint stock company, from a
part of the burden of the provisions of the Commutation Act. I cannot
help thinking, if that course had been adopted--or even supposing,
according to the calculations of my noble Friend behind me, we had been
obliged to abandon that course, by desiring the East India Company to
withdraw from trading with China--that they still would have been in
possession of their capital, which might have been disposed of for their
advantage, and they might have been continued in the Government of
India. I entreat your Lordships to observe, that such an arrangement
would have been attended with this advantage, that they would not have
had to draw their dividends from India. One of the greatest
inconveniences attending this arrangement is, in my opinion, the
increased sum which must be annually brought home by remittance to this
country from India, to such an amount that the inconvenience is very
great, so great, that I very much doubt whether the process can be
carried on; and it must be most prejudicial to the commerce of the
country.
_June_ 5, 1833.
* * * * *
_Reform un fait accompli_.
Now that the Reform Bill has become the law of the land, I have
considered it my duty not only to submit to it, but to endeavour to
carry its provisions into execution by every means in my power.
_July_ 19, 1833.
* * * * *
_Repudiation of the Holy Alliance_.
I have passed part of my life in the foreign service of my country; but
I most sincerely protest, that I never did join with any holy alliance
against the liberties of Europe.
_July_ 19, 1833.
* * * * *
_Expediency and Principle_.
If the world were governed by principles, nothing would be more easy
than to conduct even the greatest affairs; but, in all circumstances,
the duty of a wise man is to choose the lesser of any two difficulties
which beset him.
_July_ 19, 1833.
* * * * *
_Protestantism to be supported_.
It is our duty, in every case, to do all we can to promote the
Protestant religion. It is our duty to do so, not only on account of the
political relations between the religion of the Church of England and
the Government, but because we believe it to be the purest doctrine, and
the best system of religion, that can be offered to a people.
_July_ 19, 1833.
* * * * *
_Importance of preserving the authority of the East India Company_.
The noble Lord who spoke last, quoted the opinion of Sir John Malcolm.
My Lords, I wish the noble Lords opposite had taken the advice of Sir
John Malcolm, upon the subject of forming an independent body in London,
representing the interests, and carrying on the concerns, of India. My
Lords, it is persons of this description who interpose an efficient
check upon the Government. I say, therefore, that it is much to be
lamented, that instead of placing that body in the state of independence
in which they were heretofore placed, they are to be reduced to a
situation in which they will lose a very considerable portion of their
power and influence. It is of the utmost importance that the greatest
possible care should be taken to preserve the authority of the company
in relation to their servants. Depend upon it, my Lords, that on the
basis of their authority depends the good government of India.
_July_ 5, 1833.
* * * * *
_After Emancipation, the Protestants of Ireland ought to have been
conciliated_.
The noble and learned Lord (Plunkett) said, that many of the evils that
afflicted Ireland, and for which the Church Temporalities Bill was
intended as a remedy, were occasioned by the delay of the measure of
Emancipation, after the year 1825. Why, I ask, by its delay after the
year 1825? I beg to know from that noble and learned Lord how long the
system of agitation existed in Ireland both before and after the year
1825? Why, my Lords, it has existed ever since the commencement of the
discussion of the Roman Catholic Question--that is to say, ever since
the days of the restrictive regency. From that period to the present
moment, there has been nothing but agitation, except during parts of the
years 1829 and 1830. Agitation commenced in Ireland upon the conclusion
of events in Paris, and in Brussels. Those events occasioned such
agitations and discussions as obliged the noble Duke, who was then at
the head of the Government in Ireland, to carry into execution the
Proclamation Act. Then came a change in the administration, and the
noble Earl assumed the reigns of power. He immediately chose for the
Lord Lieutenant (Lord Wellesley) a nobleman for whom I entertain great
respect but who certainly was nearly the last person who ought to have
been selected for that office. After the Roman Catholic Question was
settled, what ought the government to have done? Most certainly they
ought to have done everything in their power to conciliate--whom? The
Protestants of Ireland. Everything had already been granted to the Roman
Catholics which they could possibly require; and the object of the
government ought to have been to conciliate the Protestants. But,
instead of that, the noble Earl sends over to that country, as Lord
Lieutenant, the noble Marquis, who was the very last person that ought
to have been appointed; because, when holding that situation previously,
and on receiving information that his Majesty's government entertained
views favourable to the emancipation of the Catholics, he did,
immediately, before his departure for Ireland, issue a sort of
proclamation to the people that agitation should be continued for the
purpose of obtaining the desired boon.
_July_ 19, 1833.
* * * * *
_Irish Agitation Characterized_.
Now, my Lords, in order to enable your Lordships to understand what
this "agitation" is, I beg leave just to describe it to your Lordships.
It is, first of all, founded upon a conspiracy of priests and demagogues
to obtain their purpose--whether justifiable or not, is not the
question--by force and menace, and by the use of terror and of mobs,
wherever that terror and those mobs can be used to produce an effect
upon his Majesty's Government favourable to their views. This agitation
they have maintained by orations, harangues, and seditious speeches at
public meetings--by publications through a licentious press--by
exaggerations--by forgeries--and by all other means which it is in the
power of that description of persons to use, in order to excite the
multitude; and then, when they are excited, to make them appear in large
bodies to terrify and over-awe the people. If, my Lords, any person
ventures to oppose himself to these proceedings, he is either
immediately murdered or his house is destroyed, his cattle or other
property carried off, and combinations are formed to prevent resistance,
or the discovery of the guilty. In short, all measures are adopted which
go to, and which are intended to, destroy the Constitution of this
country. This, my Lords, is what is called the system of "agitation."
_July_ 19, 1833.
* * * * *
_What constitutes a Blockade_.
To constitute an effective blockade, it is unnecessary to say that the
port in question must be actually blockaded; and, further, that notice
must have been given of such a blockade. No capture could be made
without previously warning off vessels. There are various modes of
notice; but the most authoritative manner of giving notice is through
the Government of the power to be so warned. It should never be
forgotten, however, that there should be certain means in existence to
enforce the blockade at the time of notice.
_July_ 19, 1833.
* * * * *
_Objection to the reduction of the Number of Irish Bishops_.
I object to the proposed reduction of the number of Bishops in Ireland,
and I totally dissent from the argument upon which the propriety or
expediency of that reduction is founded. I am willing to admit that if
we were now, for the first time, establishing the Protestant Church in
Ireland. I might be inclined to think that twenty-two Bishops were more
than was necessary to the supervision of some 1000 clergymen; but when I
take into account, besides the fact that the higher number has been in
existence for centuries--when I consider the importance of the
Protestant Church in Ireland in relation to the political ties of the
two countries--when I consider, as a Right Reverend Prelate has
remarked in the course of the debate, that wherever a Protestant Bishop
is removed, there a Catholic Prelate will remain, who, doubtless, will
possess himself of the palace, and perhaps the church property, of the
reduced Protestant See; and when, above all, I consider the peculiar
circumstances of Ireland, so different from those of this country, and
which may make the episcopal superintendence of thirty or forty
benefices in the former country a matter of more trouble and anxiety
than the 600 or 1000 benefices which an English Prelate may control, I
cannot but object to the proposed reduction. Besides, there is another
circumstance which is worthy of attention in the discussion of this
subject, and that is, that the Bishops of England have the assistance of
their Deans and Archdeacons, which their Irish brethren have not. The
twenty-two Bishops of Ireland have personally to perform all the duties
which the Bishops of this country perform through their Deans and
Archdeacons.
_July_ 19,1835
* * * * *
_The Jews' Right to Citizenship denied._
The noble and learned Lord (Brougham), and the most reverend Prelate
(Whately), have both stated that they cannot understand the distinct
principle upon which the opponents of this measure rest their opposition
to the admission of the Jews to seats in the legislature. Now I beg the
noble and learned Lord, and the most reverend Prelate, to recollect that
this is a Christian country and a Christian legislature, and that the
effect of this measure would be to remove that peculiar character. Your
Lordships have been called upon to follow the example of foreign
countries, with respect to the Jews; but I think that, before we
proceed to legislate on such a subject as this, it is indispensable that
the necessity for the introduction of the measure should be shown. I
ask, what case has been made out to shew a necessity for passing this
measure? When your Lordships passed the bills for the removal of the
Roman Catholic disabilities, and for the repeal of the Test and
Corporation Acts, the reason assigned was, that it was unnecessary to
keep up the restriction on the classes of Christians affected by those
acts. But there is a material difference between the cases of the
dissenters and Roman Catholics, and the Jews--the former enjoyed all the
benefits and advantages of the constitution before the restrictions were
imposed. Was that the case with the Jews? Were the Jews ever in the
enjoyment of the blessings of the English constitution? Certainly not.
The Jews were formerly considered as alien enemies, and they were not
allowed to live in this country,--I think from the time of Edward I. to
the period of the Commonwealth. It cannot, therefore, be said that the
question of the Jews can be put on the same ground as the claims of any
class of Christians in the country.
_August 1,1843._
* * * * *
_The Jews have no Right to Civil Equality._
The noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack (Lord Brougham) has referred
to a certain Act of Parliament which passed, giving certain privileges
to the Jews, and which he said, was in the very form of words proposed
in this bill. It is true that this Act conferred benefits on the Jews,
but then it must be recollected that it was confined in its operation to
certain of the colonies; in the first instance to Canada, and
subsequently to Jamaica and Barbadoes, and others of the West Indian
colonies. But then, was there not a very good reason for this? European
inhabitants were much required in the colonies at the time the act
passed; and this was to give encouragement to the Jews to go thither and
settle. No such necessity exists now, with regard to this country,--we
do not wish Jews to come and settle here. Not one word has been said to
shew that any necessity exists for passing this measure. The noble Lord,
who addressed your Lordships early in the debate, adverted to the state
of the Jews in France, I entirely agree with the illustrious Duke near
me, and the right reverend Prelate, that this country is not bound to
follow the example of foreign nations in legislating for any portion of
the community. But it ought not to escape attention, that Buonaparte, in
legislating for the Jews, did not go the full length of this bill; and
before he did anything for them, he ordered a strict inquiry into their
case to be made. I ask, are your Lordships prepared to assent to this
bill, without any inquiry being instituted as to its necessity, or
without any reason being assigned? This bill is not the result of
inquiry, but it has been introduced on a very different
principle,--namely, because it suits the liberal opinions of the day.
The noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack, has endeavoured to shew
that, by retaining the words--"upon the true faith of a Christian," in
the Statute Book, you encourage men who have no regard to the obligation
of an oath, and thus maintain hypocrisy, while it operates as a
restriction on conscientious persons. "You admit," says the noble and
learned Lord, "men like Mr. Wilkes, Lord Shaftesbury, or Lord
Bolingbroke, but you shut out conscientious men who will not take the
oath." I am prepared to allow that there are some men whom no oath or
affirmation can reach; but this is no reason why we should give up every
test and oath. Are we on this account to throw aside every guard for the
maintenance of Christianity in the country? The Right Reverend Prelate
has stated very clearly and plainly the reason why we should not pass
this bill--namely, that this is a Christian country, and has a Christian
legislature, and that therefore, the Parliament, composed as it is, of
Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, cannot advise the Sovereign,
as the head of the Church, to sanction a law which will remove the
peculiar character of the legislature, I say that we cannot advise the
Sovereign on the throne to pass a law which will admit persons to all
offices, and into the Parliament of the country, who, however
respectable they may be, still are not Christians, and therefore ought
not to be allowed to legislate for a Christian Church. The noble
Marquis, for whom I entertain the highest respect, seemed surprised that
I should smile when the noble Marquis spoke in somewhat extravagant
terms of the distinctions which have been acquired by these persons in
foreign countries. I must apologize to the noble Marquis for having
smiled at that moment, but it certainly appeared to me that the noble
Marquis was rather extravagant in his praise; and, I may be allowed to
add, that I have never been so fortunate as to hear of those persons
being in the stations which he described. The noble marquis stated that
there were no less than fifteen officers of the Jewish religion at the
battle of Waterloo; I have not the least doubt that there are many
officers of that religion of great merit and distinction--but still I
must again repeat they are not Christians; and, therefore, sitting as I
do in a Christian legislature, I cannot advise the sovereign on the
throne to sanction a law to admit them to seats in this house and the
other house of parliament, and to all the rights and privileges enjoyed
by Christians. The noble and learned lord on the woolsack said, that
when the observation is mode that Christianity is part and parcel of the
law of the land, it is meant that that Christianity is the Church of
England. Now, I have always understood that it was the Christian
dispensation, generally; and I believe that when Christianity is talked
of as part and parcel of the law, it means the Christian dispensation,
and not the doctrines of the Church of England.
_August_ 1, 1833.
* * * * *
_Defence of a Metallic Currency_.
I always have maintained, and I always shall maintain, that the only
proper basis of our money system is a solid gold circulation. Upon that
basis I considered our monetary system fixed since the measure of 1819,
followed up as that was by improvements in 1826: I really think the
principle of those measures the best that can be applied to our
circulation. Detailed payments being made in gold, the larger payments
might be made in paper, and depend on credit; the true support of the
credit of whatever paper might be in circulation being, that it was
liable to be paid in gold on demand at any time, at the bank of England,
or at the branch-banks of the bank of England; so that, if any man chose
not to give credit to the bank of England, he had only to demand gold
for his paper; or any creditor might, at once, demand from his debtor
payment in solid coin. That however will, to a certain extent, not be
the case under this bill. I am aware that, eventually, the holder of the
paper can repair to the bank of England and demand gold as heretofore;
and must, therefore give credit to somebody for the amount. That I
consider a depreciation of the paper of the bank of England. It is a
depreciation to which if I had been a bank director, I would never have
consented; indeed, I cannot understand why the bank agreed to this
proposition. I am persuaded that, ere long, great inconveniences will
occur from the provision; and those inconveniences will be felt in a
depreciation of bank paper. What is the object of the arrangement? It is
either intended to give the bank a power of issuing paper which, under
the existing system, it does not possess, or to facilitate credit
generally throughout the country, and enable the country banks to
undertake operations which they could not otherwise attempt. It is
evident that the noble earl himself sees that the consequence will be to
facilitate and increase the issues of the country banks. That will
augment all transactions; and the result must be a great increase of
prices, and the ruin of many individuals. Nothing of this kind would
happen, if the present system were continued; namely, if the bank of
England continued to issue the number of its notes which the necessity
of the public might seem to require; and by the regularity of its
proceedings give such a check to the issues of the country banks, as
should be calculated to establish a sound and healthy circulation. Under
the existing system, the bank would proceed so as to prevent the country
banks from giving credit, except in cases which justified the
accommodation, and the circulation and commerce of the country would
continue in a wholesome state.
_August_ 23, 1833.
* * * * *
_The Duke of Wellington's reasons for supporting the Poor Law Amendment
Bill_.
I concur with the noble and learned lord on the woolsack, and with the
noble lord opposite, as to the necessity of this measure. I agree, first
of all, in the existence of grievances consequent upon the existing
administration of the poor-laws, but I do not concur in the opinion
expressed by the noble and learned lord (the Lord Chancellor) in
disapproving of the provisions of the statute of Elizabeth; but I do
disapprove of a system of administration which differs in each and
every of the 12,000 parishes in this country, and in each of which
different and varied abuses have crept in. I maintain that it is
impossible for parliament to frame any law that can by possibility
remedy or apply to the abuses which prevail at the present
moment--abuses which are as varied in their character as they are
numerous. It is their general existence all over the country--it is
their existence in a different shape in every parish of the
kingdom--which renders the appointment of a central board absolutely
necessary, with powers to control the whole of the parishes in the land,
and to adopt such remedies as will secure a sure administration of these
laws throughout the country. If my noble friend, who has spoken in
opposition to this measure, had recently attended to parliamentary
business more assiduously than he has done, he would have found that the
subject has been submitted to the house by several noble lords, and has
also been under the consideration of every administration that I have
known; but no plan has ever been suggested, or scheme proposed, to
remove and remedy the evils of the existing laws, which in my judgment
at all equalled the present, and for it I must return the noble lord
opposite, with whom it has originated, my sincere thanks. The present
remedy for the evils of the existing laws is most unquestionably the
best that has ever been devised; at the same time I must observe, that
as the central board of commissioners must necessarily have very
extraordinary and full powers, it will be necessary that they should
keep such a record of their proceedings as shall render them liable to
the actual control at all times of the government and parliament of the
country. I doubt much whether the provisions of this bill give such a
controul to the government as will afford a full knowledge to the
parliament at all times of the course pursued by the commissioners; but
in committee on the bill, I shall consider whether some alteration is
not necessary, in order to make that control more active. There are
several other clauses in the bill which require much alteration and
modification. I entirely approve of the removal of the allowance system,
which is one of the greatest evils arising from the existing poor-laws;
but I am of opinion that it ought gradually and slowly to have been
destroyed, and without a fixed day for its termination being specified
in the bill. I would recommend that this clause should be left out, and
that power should be given to the commissioners to carry gradually such
alterations in this respect into effect, as to them may seem meet.
_July 81,1834_.
* * * * *
_Tests no Security to Religion_.
The noble duke, amongst other matters, has adverted to the union between
church and state, with respect to which he has made some observations
which are undoubtedly worthy of consideration, but to which I do not
intend, on this occasion, to offer any answer. I will, however, just
observe, that I apprehend what is generally meant by dissevering the
union of the church and state is, that there should be no established
religion. To that proposition, I trust it is superfluous for me to say
that I am a most decided opponent. It is, however, a subject which I
cannot now pretend to discuss. It is my opinion, that to leave religion
to rest upon the voluntary efforts of the people, is a notion which we
are not at present in a situation competent to entertain. It is so very
great a change, and so totally different from all that we know and
observe, that we are absolutely precluded, from want of experience, from
entering upon the consideration of the question. It is not a just
criterion, by which to form a judgment, to refer to the experience of
other nations--such as the existence of Christianity in Rome before it
became the established religion of the empire, or the existence of
religion in a country so distant and so unlike our own, in all its
circumstances, as the United states of North America. That, my lords, is
the opinion I entertain, and therefore I will no longer occupy your
lordships by any further discussion on this subject. I belong to the
church of England, and am a friend of that church, from feeling and from
conviction. I do not say that I have examined all her doctrines, or that
I am master of all the grounds upon which her rites and ceremonies
stand--I do not say that I am able to discuss with my noble friend those
one thousand questions, which Bishop Law said arose out of the
thirty-nine articles, but I believe her doctrines to be scriptural, and
I know her principles to be tolerant. But, my lords, I beg leave to say,
that I adopt those doctrines upon another ground, which perhaps may
expose me, with some in the present day, to censure. My lords, I espouse
those doctrines because they are the mode of faith delivered down to me
by my forefathers; and because they are the mode of faith which I find
established in my country. I am not prepared to remove the basis upon
which is founded (though it may be apart from) the structure of the
religion of my country. I do not think that such is the wish of the
majority of the dissenters; but, at all events, it seems to me a course
calculated to lead only to a state of general scepticism and universal
suspension of religion among the people. But while I say this for
myself--while I claim to found my attachment to my religion upon
principle, it is necessary that I should say precisely the same thing
for that great body of men who may be called the dissenters of England.
Their consent is rarely contemporaneous with the establishment of the
church of England herself. The dissenters from the church of England are
those who thought that the Reformation did not proceed far enough. Their
dissent did not show itself against the established church when in power
and prosperity; but the dissenters from that church grew up first when
the Roman Catholic religion was dominant in this country, and when both
the members of the new church of England and the dissenters were alike
suffering under persecution; therefore, it is a dissent founded on
principle. Considering the weight which dissent has in this country, and
considering the extent to which it prevails, many attempts have been,
from time to time, made, as we all know, at a religious comprehension of
all denominations of Christians in the body of the church. Such attempts
have been made by some of the greatest prelates that the church has
ever known. These attempts have all failed; but, surely in our days, it
may be thought wise to attempt at least a general civil comprehension of
all classes, by admitting them, if it be possible to do so, to those
benefits which are to be derived from the public institutions of the
country.
I will not go into the foundations of the universities. I am not for
raising any quibble on that subject. I apprehend that they have grown
up, as all other institutions have done, very much from a series of
accidents, and the force of chances. One college has been founded by one
individual, and one by another; but, however they have grown up, they
have, in fact, become, and are now considered, as the national
seminaries of education. I would reserve to them, in every respect,
their corporate rights. I would respect them as places where the
religion of the country is taught, and professed; but undoubtedly I
would if possible, for the sake of general peace and union, and for the
sake of bringing together those who are now divided, try, with the
sanction and approbation of the universities themselves (and we know
perfectly well that most of their distinguished members are of opinion
that this can be done); I would, I say, try whether we could not open
the gates of these universities to that great body of this country, who
unfortunately dissent from the doctrines of the church of England. I
would not do so, however, rashly, nor with any violence to honest
prejudices, or to those well-intentioned feelings which some persons are
found to cherish.
The noble duke has said that tests are no securities against the
admission of atheists or schismatics, and that a man may take them who
dissented from them, if he chose to stifle all his feelings of right and
wrong. But, my lords, I beg leave to say that tests are no security
against any man. It is impossible ever to have looked at the history of
religion in any state, or at any period, and not to feel that the test
laws have been the weakest ground upon which any faith could stand. Were
tests any security for the heathen religion against the vital spirit of
the heaven-descended energy of Christianity? Yet we are aware that every
act of the life of a heathen was in itself a test. He could not sit to
his meat, he could not retire to rest, he could not go through the most
simple transactions of life, without some act of acknowledgment offered
towards some heathen deity. Unless these observances were attended to by
the Christians, they were subject to the most cruel punishments, and yet
such means failed to preserve the dominant faith. In fact, it is well
known that one of the most violent persecutions of the Christians,
instituted by the Roman emperors, was followed, as it were, almost
immediately by the establishment of Christianity as the dominant
religion of the empire. Were tests any security to the Roman Catholic
religion, against the growing light and energy of the Protestant faith?
Tests of various kinds were adopted at the very moment the new doctrines
showed themselves, but it was soon found that they were vain and fragile
against the light and strength of the new doctrines. Were tests any
security to these very universities themselves? I have not looked very
deeply into this subject; I have no doubt that if I were to look closer
into it, I should find more instances of the sort; but I find that about
fourteen years after the establishment of King's College, in the
university of Cambridge, a decree was sent down there by King Henry VI.,
admonishing the scholars, that is to say, in the language of the present
day, the fellows of that college, against the damnable and pernicious
errors (so it styled them), of John Wickliffe and Richard Peacock, and
denouncing the pains of expulsion from college, and perjury, against
those of them who should show any favour to those doctrines. Yet, in two
years after this, this very king's college became what, at that time was
called the most heretical, but which now, in our time, would be called
the most Protestant college in the university; and we know that these
doctrines thus fiercely denounced, and strongly guarded against by
tests, about fifty or sixty years afterwards became, by law, the
established religion of this country. It is upon her native
strength--upon her own truth--it is upon her spiritual character, and
upon the purity of her doctrines, that the Church of England rests. Let
her not, then, look for support in such aids as these. It is by these
means, and not by tests and proscriptions, that protestantism has been
maintained; let her be assured of this.
_August 1, 1834._
* * * * *
_Cause of the dismissal of the Melbourne Administration in November,
1834._
I am not responsible for the dissolution of the late government. The
late government was dissolved from the absolute impossibility of its
going on any longer. When a noble earl (Spencer), whom I do not now see
in his place, was removed from the House of Commons, by the necessity of
taking his seat in this house, it was impossible for the late government
to go on. I will just desire your lordships to recollect that it was
stated by the noble earl (Grey), who so worthily filled the situation of
prime minister for nearly four years, when his noble colleague (Lord
Althorp), in the House of Commons, thought proper to resign, "that he
had lost his right hand, and that it had thus become absolutely
impossible for him to continue to carry on the government, or to serve
the Crown with honour or advantage." Not only did the noble earl make
this declaration of his inability to go on upon the retirement of his
noble colleague from his majesty's councils, but the noble viscount
opposite, himself, when he afterwards came to form his government,
stated that the noble earl (Spencer), having consented to retain his
office and position in the House of Commons, he was prepared to
undertake to preside over his majesty's councils, and carry on the
business of the country. But this was not all; for I happen to know
that, when the noble viscount found that he was likely to be deprived of
the services and assistance of that noble lord in the other house, he
felt that his administration would be placed in circumstances of the
greatest difficulty and embarrassment. Besides that, it was perfectly
well known to his majesty, that the influence of that noble lord in the
other house of parliament was the foundation on which the government to
which he was attached, reposed; and, that that support being removed, it
must fall. When, therefore, his majesty found that it was fairly put to
him whether he would consent to arrangements for the late government
proceeding as it best could, or whether he would consent to steps being
taken for the formation of another administration, it was surely natural
for his majesty to consider his own situation, and the situation in
which the late government was lately placed by the death of the late
Earl Spencer.
_February 24, 1835_.
* * * * *
_Why the Duke of Wellington held so many offices_, ad interim, _in
November_, 1834.
I gave his majesty the best advice which, under the circumstances of the
case, it appeared to me practicable to give. I advised his majesty to
send for that right hon. gentleman (Sir R. Peel), a member of the House
of Commons, who seemed to me to be the most fit and capable person to
place at the head of the new administration, as first lord of the
treasury. That right honourable gentleman was then in another part of
the world, and some time must necessarily elapse before it would be
possible that he could return to this country. It appeared to his
majesty and to myself, however, to be essentially necessary that, in the
meantime, the government should be taken possession of and
administered. This step I considered to be absolutely necessary, and I
also felt it to be absolutely necessary that, whoever might exercise the
authority of government in the interval, should take no step that might
embarrass or compromise the right honourable baronet on his return. It
was only on that ground that I accepted, for the time, of the offices of
first lord of the treasury, and secretary of state for the home
department.
The noble viscount has made a little mistake in alleging that I was
appointed to three departments at once. He makes it a matter of charge
against me that I exercised the authority of the three secretaries of
state; but the noble viscount knows very well that the secretary of
state for the home department is competent, under certain circumstances,
to do so. It was for the public service, and the public convenience, and
no other reason whatever, that I, my lords, consented to hold, for a
time, the situations of first lord of the treasury, and secretary of
state for the home department. But I want to know whether this was, as
the noble viscount insinuates, an unprecedented act? When Mr. Canning
was secretary of state for the foreign department, he was appointed
first lord of the treasury. The latter office Mr. Canning received on
the 12th of April, and he did not resign the seals of the foreign
department until the 30th of that month. During the whole of that period
Mr. Canning discharged the duties both of secretary of state for foreign
affairs, and first lord of the treasury. My lords, I am quite aware
that there were at that period, two other secretaries of state, but the
fact is as I have stated it, that Mr. Canning exercised at the same
time; the functions both of first lord of the treasury, and secretary of
state for the foreign department. The transaction in my case was,
therefore, not unprecedented; and I must also say, that when the noble
viscount thought proper to blame me, as he did, he was bound to show
that my conduct, in that respect, had been attended with some evil or
inconvenient result. Now, it does not appear that it has been attended
with any such result. The fact is, that during the whole of the time
that I held the two offices. I cautiously avoided taking any step which
might be productive of subsequent embarrassment or inconvenience, and
when my right honourable friend took possession of his office, I can
undertake to say that he did not find himself compromised by any such
act.
_February_ 24,1835.
* * * * *
_Lord Londonderry's appointment to the Embassy at St. Petersburgh._
My lords, having learned that it would not be disagreeable to my noble
friend to be employed in the public service, I did concur in the
recommendation, or rather, my lords, I did recommend to my right
honourable friend, Sir Robert Peel, that my noble friend should be
appointed ambassador to the court of St. Petersburgh. I made this
recommendation, founded as it was on my own personal knowledge of my
noble friend for many years past,--on the many great and important
military services he has performed, and on the fitness he has proved
himself to possess for such an appointment in those various diplomatic
employments he has filled during a long period of time; more
particularly at the court of Vienna, where for a period of nine years,
he performed most important services to the entire satisfaction of the
ministers who employed him, up to the last moment of his employment. He
returned from the discharge of that office, my lords, with the strongest
testimony of the approbation of the then secretary of state for foreign
affairs. I was aware, my lords, of the peculiar talents of my noble
friend in certain respects, for this particular office, and of his
consequent fitness for this very description of diplomatic employment,
especially on account of his being a military officer of high rank in
the service of this country, and of distinguished reputation in the
Russian army. I knew the peculiar advantages that must attach to an
individual conducting such an embassy on that account. Under these
circumstances, I was justified, my lords, in recommending my noble
friend, and I was glad to find that my right honourable friend concurred
in that recommendation, and that his majesty was pleased to approve of
it. I may also add, that the nomination of my noble friend having been
communicated in the usual manner to the court of St. Petersburgh, it was
received with approbation at that court. For all these reasons, my
lords, it was with the greatest regret I learned that this
nomination,--for it had gone no further than nomination,--was not
approved of in another place; for it is in consequence of that
expression of disapproval that my noble friend, with that delicacy of
feeling which belongs to his character, has declined the office.
_March_ 16,1834.
* * * * *
_Prerogative of the Crown in appointing Ambassadors._
There can be no doubt whatever that there is no branch of the
prerogative of the crown greater, or more important, than that of
sending ambassadors to foreign courts; nor is there any branch of that
prerogative the unrestricted use of which ought to be kept more
inviolate. But, my lords, the ministers of the crown are responsible for
these nominations. They are also responsible for the instructions under
which my noble friend, or any other noble lord so nominated, is bound to
act. They are, moreover, responsible for the proper performance of these
duties on the part of those whom they select--to the other house of
parliament, and to the country at large. It is impossible, therefore,
for me to believe that the House of Commons would in this case proceed
so far as to interfere with that peculiar prerogative, and to say that
an individual who has been already nominated by the crown should not
fill the situation; inasmuch as, by so doing, the House of Commons would
not only be taking upon itself the nomination of the officer, and the
direction of the particular duties to be discharged by him--but would
also be relieving the minister from the constitutional responsibility of
the appointment. I do not think that sentiments of such a description,
on a subject of this delicacy and importance, are very general; and I
cannot bring myself to believe that a vote affirming such a violation of
the royal prerogative would have passed the House of Commons.
_March 15,1835._
I
_The Roman Catholics interested in maintaining the Established Church._
The great bulk of the Roman Catholics are as much interested as the
Protestants of the established church in maintaining the safety of the
established church.
_June 10, 1835._
* * * * *
_Defence of the Thirty-nine Articles._
I conceive that there is no cause to complain of the subscription to the
thirty-nine articles, as practised in Oxford. The explanation given by
the most reverend prelate is entirely borne out by the statues of the
university, and by the practice that prevails there; and this
explanation agrees entirely with that given by a right reverend prelate,
who was formerly head of one of the colleges at Oxford. It might,
perhaps, be desirable that some other test should be adopted to prove
that the individuals to be matriculated are members of the church of
England; the most important point is, that Cambridge and Oxford should
be filled only by members of the Church of England--upon that I consider
the whole question to rest. The noble earl said, in the course of the
discussion, that I advised your lordships not to consent to the bill
introduced last session; because, if you did, you would have to carry
to the foot of the throne a measure which would tend to subvert the
union between church and state. My meaning in so doing was neither more
nor less than this--that it was absolutely necessary that the
universities, founded as they are, should educate their members in the
religion of the church of England. Your lordships could not go to the
king, and ask his consent to a bill which had for its object to
establish in the university a system of education different from that of
the church of England, without attacking the very foundation of the
principle of the connexion between church and state. But the noble lord
says, the church herself does not exact subscription to the thirty-nine
articles from each individual. It is very true that the church of
England does not require subscription from her members, nor would the
university of Oxford require it, but as a proof that the person
subscribing was a member of that church, or of the family of a member
thereof.
The noble earl stated that individuals might obtain admittance to the
universities both of Oxford and Cambridge, notwithstanding that they
were dissenters; but there is a great deal of difference between
casually admitting dissenters, and permitting them to enter into the
universities as a matter of right. I see no objection to the admission
of the few now admitted, who must submit to the regulations and
discipline of the university, and of its several colleges; but I do
object to the admission of dissenters into the universities by right;
and my reason for making this exception is, that I am exceedingly
desirous that the religion taught there should be the religion of the
church of England; and I confess I should be very apprehensive that, if
dissenters of all denominations were admitted by right, and they were
not under the necessity of submitting to the rules and regulations of
the several colleges, not only would the religion of the church of
England not to be taught there, but no kind of religion whatever. I
state this on the authority of a report which I have recently received
of the proceedings of an institution in this country for the instruction
of children of dissenting clergymen; from which it appears absolutely
impossible, for any length of time, to adhere to any creed, or any tenet
or doctrine in these seminaries, in which every doctrine is matter of
dispute and controversy. I was rather surprised to hear the noble
viscount opposite--a minister of the crown--express his preference for
polemical disputations in the universities. I should have thought that
he would have felt it to be his inclination, as well as duty, by all
means to protect the universities from such disputes, and from a system
fruitful in such controversies; and probably to end in a cessation of
any system of religion or religious instruction whatever, on account of
the different opinions of the members.
_July_ 14,1835.
* * * * *
_University Tests rendered necessary by Toleration._
The tests in our universities are the children of the Reformation, which
the system of toleration wisely established in this country has
rendered still more necessary, if we intend to preserve the standard of
the religion of the church of England. If we open the door wide and say
"We will have no established religion at all--every man shall follow the
religion he chooses"--if, in a word, we have recourse to the voluntary
system,--then we must make up our minds to take the consequences which
must follow from the enactments of the bill and the polemical and other
controversial agitations to which it must lead. But, supposing the
object of the noble lord, to put an end to these tests, to be desirable,
I can conceive no mode of effecting this object so objectionable as the
interference by parliament with the privileges of the universities,
secured to them by charter and repeatedly acknowledged and confirmed by
parliament.
_July_ 14 1835
* * * * *
_Irish Clergy--their Depression by the Melbourne Government_.
I do say that the Protestant people and clergy of Ireland have great
reason to complain of the want of protection to their rights and
properties manifested on the part of the government of this country; and
this is the cause of those disputes and those circumstances which the
noble lord opposite (Lord Melbourne) has complained of in the few words
he has addressed to the house on the subject. Far be it from me to wish
for the renewal of any dissensions in Ireland; and, God knows, I would
go any length, and do any thing in my power to put them down in the
extent to which they now exist; but we are mistaken if we suppose that
they can be put down by oppressing one party, or allowing one party to
oppress another, or by extinguishing--an extinction which for the last
three or four years you have attempted and are now about to
complete--that description of property in Ireland allotted to the
payment of the clergy. This is the circumstance which occasions the
present dissensions in Ireland, and which has induced the present
discussion in this house. The noble lord opposite cannot lament the
cause of such discussions more than I do; but if he be determined to do
his duty, let him give the protection of his majesty's government to the
Protestant clergy and people of Ireland, as he does not hesitate to do
in the case of other classes in that country; and the evils which he so
much deplores will soon cease to exist.
_July_ 16, 1835.
* * * * *
_A Power of Revising Railway Acts ought to be Reserved by the
Legislature_.
I certainly have a very strong feeling on the subject of all these
railways to be traversed by the aid of steam. I sincerely wish that all
these projects could prove successful; but, in proportion as they may be
successful, in the same proportion is it desirable that there should not
be a perpetual monopoly established in the country. Under these
circumstances, I have a strong feeling that it is desirable to insert in
all these bills some clause, to enable the government or the parliament
to revise the enactments contained in them at some future specific
period. I conceive that, by carrying these measures into execution, a
very great injustice is often done to many landed proprietors in the
country; and they are forced either to submit to great inconvenience, or
to contend against that inconvenience by incurring a very large expense,
both in this and the other house of parliament. If some measure of the
description to which I allude be not adopted, and if these railroads are
to become monopolies in the hands of present or of future proprietors,
we shall hereafter be only able to get the better of such monopolies by
forming fresh lines of road, to the farther detriment of the interests
of the landed proprietors, and at a great increase of expense and
inconvenience. These circumstances have most forcibly struck my mind. I
have had the subject under consideration for some days; I have conversed
with others respecting it; and it appears to me that some plan ought to
be devised in order to bring these railroads under the supervision of
parliament at some future period. I therefore am anxious that the
further proceedings in all these bills[18] should be suspended for a
short time, in order that I may propose some clause, or introduce some
measure, to meet the object to which I have referred. I think it is a
subject the consideration of which ought not to fall on any individual.
It is, I conceive, a matter which the government should take into its
especial consideration. I am, however, perfectly ready to share with the
government the responsibility of proposing such a measure to the house.
[Footnote 18: Some railway bills before the Home of Lords.]
_June_ 3,1836.
* * * * *
_Moderation of the Opposition in the House of Lords towards the
Melbourne Government_.
From my own experience, I must take the liberty of observing, that I
consider the conduct pursued by noble lords on this side of the house,
throughout the present session, to have been marked with the utmost
moderation. For myself, I think I am correct in stating, that since the
address to the throne in answer to the king's speech, with the exception
only of one occasion, when I requested the noble viscount to postpone
the Corporations (Ireland) Bill till after the Easter holidays, I never
entered the house till after Easter. Since that period, I have certainly
taken part in the proceedings that have been going forward in the house,
and I have felt it my duty to oppose some of the measures of government;
but I think I shall be borne out when I say that I have accompanied the
vote which I have given with observations expressed in terms of great
moderation. I have acted on all occasions to the best of my opinion, and
in a way which I thought most calculated to be beneficial to the
country. The noble viscount has been pleased to taunt us for not having
addressed the king with a view to obtain his and his colleagues' removal
from the situations which they hold. If the noble viscount would look at
the manner in which they were appointed to office, if he would look at
the whole history for the last twelve months I think he would find
sufficient reason for our not having adopted that course of proceeding.
The noble viscount knows very well upon what ground he stands, and
knowing that, it would have been just as well in him if he had avoided
his taunts against us for not having asked the king to remove him from
office. I would take the liberty to recommend the noble viscount to
consider himself not as the minister of a democratic body in another
place, but as the minister of a sovereign in a limited monarchy, in a
country, great in point of extent, great in its possessions, and in the
various interests which it comprises; and that considering these
circumstances, he should, in future, concert such measures as he has
reason to think may pass with the approval and suit the general
interests of all,--meet the good will of all,--and not of one
particular party in one particular place only. If the noble viscount
will but follow that course for some little time, he will find no
difficulty in conducting the business of government in this house, but
will find every facility afforded him in forwarding measures of the
above description. I would beg the noble lord to recollect one fact, in
regard to the church of England, whether in England or Ireland. Let him
recollect that the avowed policy followed by this country during the
last three hundred years, has been to retain inviolable the church
establishment. We are called here to consult particularly for the good
of the church; and if the noble viscount brings forward any measures
relating to that subject, let him recollect that all measures of such a
kind must be discussed by us with that particular object in view. This
is not only the old feeling of this house of three hundred years'
standing, but it is that on which we acted no longer than eight or nine
years ago, when we had occasion to review the safeguards and general
landmarks whereby the church establishment of this country was defended.
_August_ 18, 1836.
_The Quadruple Treaty. Effects of our Intervention in Spain_.
It is well known to your lordships that I was one of those who objected
to the treaty called the "Quadruple Treaty." It is perfectly true that I
was afterwards instrumental in carrying it into effect; because it was
my duty, in the situation in which I was placed at that time, to carry
into effect those treaties which his majesty had entered into, whether I
had originally approved of them or not. I cannot, therefore, now,
disapprove of the due execution of the quadruple treaty by others; nor
will I refuse my assent to the proposition that the measures which his
majesty has adopted in execution of the treaty are satisfactory as far
as we have any knowledge of them. If any measures should have been
adopted, not already provided for in the treaty, it will be our duty to
consider them calmly and dispassionately. Much discussion has taken
place in other countries with respect to the course pursued by other
members of this alliance, in the execution of this treaty. I must say,
that so far as I am enabled to form a judgment of the treaty, (and I
know nothing more than what appears on the face of the treaty itself) it
seems to me that it has been fairly executed by all the parties who
subscribed it. When I had the honour of serving his majesty in 1834, I
was called upon to state whether the treaty in question would be carried
into execution. I then stated what I understood was the meaning and
scope of the treaty;--viz. that there should be no armed intervention in
the internal affairs of Spain, which should tend to affect the
independence of that country. That was my sense of the treaty at the
time--it is my sense of the treaty at the present moment--it was so
understood by the other parties to the treaty. It was the understanding
of all parties that there should he no military intervention in the
internal affairs of Spain. This was the understanding of the treaty, and
in the month of November, 1834, this explanation was communicated and
was satisfactory to the Spanish government.
I consider that the attempt by his majesty's government, aided even by
the strongest power in Europe, to force upon Spain any form of
government, must fail. Those who should make the attempt must take upon
themselves not only the expenses of their own army in a most expensive
contest, but those of the civil and military government of Spain; and
they must hold their position in Spain, and defray their expenses till
the new government should be settled and submitted to, and tranquillity
established in the country. I should like to see how the Commons House
of Parliament, or the Chamber of Deputies, would treat a proposition
that should call upon them to agree to a vote of money for any such
operation, for the purpose of forcibly imposing a liberal government on
Spain, or on any other country. I contend my lords, that this scheme is
absolutely impracticable. His majesty's ministers may rely on it, that
they have undertaken that which they never can perform; and that the
sooner they place themselves on the footing on which they ought strictly
to stand with reference to the quadruple alliance, the sooner will the
pacification of Spain, which we must all of us anxiously wish for, be
accomplished. I feel, for one, the strongest objection to anything like
interference with the internal affairs of the Peninsula. I object to it,
not only on account of the vast expense it must inevitably entail upon
this country, but still more so on account of the injury which it
inflicts on the parties existing in that state. Of my own certain
knowledge I can state, that the individuals composing these parties in
Spain, have actually been ruined, their properties confiscated, their
fortunes sacrificed, by the course which his majesty's government have
pursued. Acting under the assurances of his majesty's government,
individuals have adopted a certain line of conduct. They followed his
majesty's government, as a party in the state. His majesty's government,
thus acting, is obliged to move forward with the democratic movement The
unfortunate persons I have alluded to have, in consequence, been
abandoned, their fortunes sacrificed, and their prospects blighted for
ever. Events like these, my lords, which affect the character as well as
the influence of the country, inclined me to be more adverse to such
interference than I should be on the mere score of expense. I do not
mean to oppose the address, but in taking this course, I beg to be
clearly understood as not holding myself bound to approve of the
employment of any force beyond that stipulated for by the quadruple
treaty, which treaty parliament has recognised.
_January_ 30,1837.
_The Poor Law Act has surpassed his expectation_.
My lords, I supported the bill while it was in this house; and having
given that support to the bill from being a witness to the evils, and
being apprehensive of the consequences likely to have attended the
former system, I conceive it to be my duty to come forward on this
occasion, and to state that this bill has surpassed any expectation
which I had formed of the benefits likely to result from it. The bill,
my lords, may require amendment in certain parts, and it appears that
his majesty's government have taken measures to ascertain what points in
the bill so require amendment. I, for one, am ready to pay the greatest
attention to the points which may be brought under the consideration of
this house. But I must say that I approve of the measure as far as it
has gone hitherto, and I have witnessed its operation. I do not talk of
what I have seen generally, I talk of the details of the management of
the bill, from having witnessed that management in different workhouses,
in different parts of the country in which I have resided; and I must
say that it has been practically beneficial, and particularly in cases
such as these. First of all, it has put the workman and his employer
upon a true and friendly footing of confidence. Then it has connected
the man of property, the man of the highest rank in his country, with
the lowest class, with the labouring class, by admitting such to the
board of Guardians. I can mention some noble lords, who are ornaments to
this house, and who constantly attend at the weekly meetings of the
guardians, being elected guardians by the parishes in the neighbourhood
in which they reside. No measure could be attended with better results,
and being convinced that it will effect still greater benefits,
sincerely thinking so, I should be ashamed if I did not step forward,
and at once avow my sentiments respecting it. I avow at once that I
supported the bill at the time his majesty's ministers proposed it--that
I do not repent of what I did on that occasion in so supporting it--but,
on the contrary, that I rejoice in the part I then took; and I now
congratulate his majesty's ministers on its success.
_April_ 7, 1837.
* * * * *
_The Universities--their Education System the admiration of the World._
The working of all these colleges and of the system on which they are
regulated, is for the benefit of the public; and in each and every
college the object is to carry into execution the will of the founder,
just as it would probably have been had he lived to this period. In
every case the great object of the governing authorities is, to benefit
the public by the education of the youth who resort to these
institutions. The noble viscount (Melbourne) could not help admitting
that these institutions have worked well, and that latterly a great
improvement has taken place in the system of education pursued under
their auspices. The noble viscount has also spoken of the great
improvement in the system of education pursued in the new university of
Durham, and in other new universities elsewhere. But, nevertheless, the
noble viscount could not help admitting that the old universities of
Oxford and Cambridge possess the merit of having established in England
an excellent system of education, which is, in point of fact, the envy
and admiration of the world.
_April_ 11, 1837.
* * * * *
_The Quadruple Treaty condemned_.
My lords, I must confess that I did not approve of the original
Quadruple Treaty. I considered it inconsistent with the ancient
principle and the policy and practice adopted in this country with
regard to Portugal, to avoid to interfere in the disputes between the
two princes of the House of Braganza, which had been the policy of this
country for many years. It sanctioned the introduction of Spanish troops
into Portugal, which measure was inconsistent with our defensive
relations with Portugal, and which had been objected to and prevented in
that very contest between the rival princes of the House of Braganza.
Yet it gave no fresh assistance to bring the contests in Portugal to a
conclusion, excepting the promise to give the aid of this country by the
employment of a naval force in co-operation with the Spanish and
Portuguese troops, which aid was not necessary. Another objection which
I entertained to the Quadruple Treaty was, that it mixed up France and
this country in the offers and promises made to Don Carlos and Don
Miguel, in the fifth and sixth articles of the treaty. These powers
became, in fact, guarantees for the performance of these engagements, as
well as for the performance of the engagements made under the same
articles of the treaty to the subjects of Portugal and Spain. It is
impossible to describe the inconvenience of such articles; they require
the interference of government in hundreds of little questions. I have
felt the inconvenience of those articles since their adoption; I stated
my objections to them at the time, and I have seen no reason, since, to
alter the opinions I then formed.
_April_ 21, 1837.
* * * * *
_Effects of the Additional Articles to the Quadruple Treaty._
By the first of the additional articles to the treaty, the King of the
French obliged himself to take such measures in those parts of his
dominions which adjoined to Spain, as might be calculated to prevent
succours of men, arms, and warlike stores being sent from France into
Spain; and the King of Great Britain engaged, under the second of the
said additional articles, to furnish such arms and warlike stores as her
majesty the Queen of Spain might require; and further to assist her
majesty with a naval force if necessary. The Duke of Braganza was to
give his best assistance to serve her majesty, that he might be called
upon to render. So that those additional articles were essentially
different from the terms and provisions of the original treaty, by which
the removal of the two princes from Portugal was effected. I do not mean
to say, that, in the preamble to that treaty, allusion is not made to
the affairs both of Spain and Portugal, but there still is a remarkable
difference between the words used in the treaty and the additional
articles; and moat particularly in relation to the part to be taken by
this country.
_April_ 21, 1837.
* * * * *
_The Legion and the Stock Exchange.--Impotency of our interference_.
I contend, as I have before contended in this house, that his majesty's
present ministers (Lord Melbourne's government) ought not to have
departed from the position which the previous administration had
established while they were in power. I will not pretend to say what
would have been the result of their following out that course, but this
I do say, that the course pursued by his lordship's government has not
benefited the military or the financial affairs of Spain, or promoted
the peace of that country or the general tranquillity of Europe, or
attained any of the political advantages which the noble viscount boasts
have been attained by his departure from that position which the
previous government had occupied and left to their successors. But, my
lords, it did unfortunately happen that certain parties in this country
had been connected with the Spanish finances; and it was important to
those parties that the red coats should make their appearance in Spain,
and that the name of "Great Britain," and of the British legion, should
be mixed up in the operations of the war. Money was raised in this
country to defray the expense of the equipment of the "Legion," as it
was called, of 10,000 or 12,000 men, and also of their pay, their food,
and maintenance, for a certain number of months; and the noble lords, in
order that this scheme might be carried into execution, gave their
consent to the order in council for the suspension of the Foreign
Enlistment Act. The corps gathered in this country, and went to Spain,
in the spring of the year 1835, nearly two years ago. Their first
operation upon their arrival at St. Sebastian, was a march over the very
same ground to the very spot which was the scene of the late disaster.
My lords, up to that moment, the Eliot convention, as it is most
honourably and justly called, had been carried into execution. It was on
that day departed from on both sides, and from that day to this, I
firmly believe, from all I have seen and read,--and I have read much on
the subject within the last few days--there has been no certainty in the
execution of that convention. Not only has there been no certainty in
the execution of that convention, but, notwithstanding the millions of
money that Spain has expended,--notwithstanding the blood which has been
shed and the number of lives that have been lost,--I will venture to
say, that the military affairs of the Queen of Spain are in a worse
condition now than they were in the month of May, 1835.
The whole of the policy of the British government, therefore; all the
operations of the British legion, backed by the British squadron; have
effected nothing more nor less towards putting an end to the war, and
giving peace to Spain and to Europe, than the removal of the blockade of
St. Sebastian from one point to another, so as not to come within the
liability of being affected by the 68-pounders of the British steamers,
under the command of Lord John Hay.
_April_ 21,1837.
* * * * *
_Uselessness of the operations of the Legion, and Lord John Hay's
Squadron, at St. Sebastian_.
If the noble lord supposes that the safety of St. Sebastian had been
more or less endangered by the blockade, I can assure him that he is
much mistaken; for, from what I know of that fortified town, which is
one of the first or second order in Europe, I can take upon myself to
say that the Carlists might have been left in their original position
without any danger whatever to the town, because they could not make an
attack upon such a fortress. In the whole course of the war they have
not, to my knowledge, taken by an attack any fortified post; or even any
open town of any magnitude, prepared for its defence. They could not
have distressed St. Sebastian for provisions, because its communication
with the sea could not be prevented. I say, it could not be prevented,
even if the whole British fleet were blockading it, instead of being
there to relieve it. The amount of inconvenience felt in the town from
the Carlist force being in the neighbourhood, was neither more nor less
than the unpleasantness of ladies and gentlemen, residing there, being
prevented taking their evening walks in the neighbourhood. This is the
whole amount of the inconvenience from which the town was relieved. This
was the whole amount of the service rendered.
_April_ 21,1837.
_Strictures on General Evans_.
My lords, I will go a little further. I will say, that I firmly believe
that the connexion between the legion and the fleet has been injurious
to the military operations of the queen of Spain's generals. That is my
decided opinion, founded upon my knowledge of the nature of the country,
and of the position of both parties. My lords, there is one point to
which I refer; that is, the want of communication between the Queen of
Spain's generals, which can be relied upon. If corps of the size of
those now employed are not actually joined, there must be a certain
communication between them; for, without communication there can be no
co-operation; and any attempt at co-operation would, in my opinion, in
all probability, lead to disasters such as have recently taken place at
Hernani. How are these troops situated? General Evans's troops are at
St. Sebastian; General Saarsfield is at the other side of the Borunda,
at Pampeluna; and Espartero, with his army, is at Bilboa. It is
impossible that there can be any communication between these three,
except by the French frontier, and by sea from Socoa, or by the Ebro. An
arrangement is made for an attack, and a day named. What was the
consequence? General Evans made an attack, but General Saarsfield, at
Pampeluna, does not attack; there is a frost or snow, or rain, or some
physical impediment which prevents a movement on the part of Saarsfield.
General Evans cannot be informed in time, and the enemy has opportunity
and leisure to throw his whole force upon General Evans; who, even if
the troops had behaved well, would have been compelled to retire. The
position, therefore, of the legion at St. Sebastian, in order to
co-operate with the British squadron, that there might be something like
British co-operation, was not an operation of war, it was one of
stock-jobbing. My lords, it is a matter of much surprise to me, that
General Evans, who, having acquired the confidence of his majesty's
government, and that of the Queen of Spain, I presume must be an able
man--it is, certainly, a surprising circumstance, that having had
experience of the difficulties of carrying on communication in that
country, and having met with a check in the month of January, 1836, for
want of communication, he should not have felt the danger of his
position, and should have omitted to put himself in communication to a
certainty with corps in whose co-operation he was to act, instead of
keeping himself at a distance, in order that he might carry on
operations in concert with his majesty's fleet.
_April_ 21,1837.
* * * * *
_Undisciplined state of the Legion_.