DEBATE ON THE PRESIDENT'S ANSWER.

APRIL 6.--The House accordingly resolved itself into a Committee of the

Whole on said Message.

Mr. BLOUNT brought forward the following resolutions:

"_Resolved_, That, it being declared by the second section

of the second article of the constitution, 'that the

President shall have power, by and with the advice of the

Senate, to make Treaties, provided two-thirds of the Senate

present concur,' the House of Representatives do not claim

any agency in making Treaties; but, that when a Treaty

stipulates regulations on any of the subjects submitted by

the constitution to the power of Congress, it must depend,

for its execution, as to such stipulations, on a law or

laws to be passed by Congress. And it is the constitutional

right and duty of the House of Representatives, in all such

cases, to deliberate on the expediency or inexpediency of

carrying such Treaty into effect, and to determine and act

thereon, as, in their judgment, may be most conducive to

the public good.[74]

"_Resolved_, That it is not necessary to the propriety of

any application from this House to the Executive, for

information desired by them, and which may relate to any

constitutional functions of the House, that the purpose for

which such information may be wanted, or to which the same

may be applied, should be stated in the application."

Mr. HARPER, Mr. DAYTON, and Mr. KITCHELL, offered a few remarks with

respect to the propriety of considering the resolutions now moved, or

those laid upon the table, by Mr. KITCHELL, a few days ago. After

which--

Mr. MADISON rose, and spoke as follows: When the Message was first

proposed to be committed, the proposition had been treated by some

gentlemen not only with levity, but with ridicule. He persuaded himself

that the subject would appear in a very different light to the

committee; and he hoped that it would be discussed on both sides without

either levity, intemperance, or illiberality.

If there were any question which could make a serious appeal to the

dispassionate judgment, it must be one which respected the meaning of

the constitution; and if any constitutional question could make the

appeal with peculiar solemnity, it must be in a case like the present,

where two of the constituted authorities interpreted differently the

extent of their respective powers.

It was a consolation, however, of which every member would be sensible,

to reflect on the happy difference of our situation, on such

occurrences, from that of governments in which the constituent members

possessed independent and hereditary prerogatives. In such governments,

the parties having a personal interest in their public stations, and not

being amenable to the national will, disputes concerning the limits of

their respective authorities might be productive of the most fatal

consequences. With us, on the contrary, although disputes of that kind

are always to be regretted, there were three most precious resources

against the evil tendency of them. In the first place, the

responsibility which every department feels to the public will, under

the forms of the constitution, may be expected to prevent the excesses

incident to conflicts between rival and irresponsible authorities. In

the next place, if the difference cannot be adjusted by friendly

conference and mutual concession, the sense of the constituent body,

brought into the Government through the ordinary elective channels, may

supply a remedy. And if this resource should fail, there remains, in the

third and last place, that provident article in the constitution itself,

by which an avenue is always open to the sovereignty of the people, for

explanations or amendments, as they might be found indispensable.

If, in the present instance, it was to be particularly regretted that

the existing difference of opinion had arisen, every motive to the

regret was a motive to calmness, to candor, and the most respectful

delicacy towards the other constituted authority. On the other hand, the

duty which the House of Representatives must feel to themselves and to

their constituents, required that they should examine the subject with

accuracy, as well as with candor, and decide on it with firmness, as

well as with moderation.

In this temper, he should proceed to make some observations on the

Message before the committee, and on the reasons contained in it.

The Message related to two points. First. The application made for the

papers. Secondly. The constitutional rights of Congress, and of the

House of Representatives, on the subject of Treaties.

On the first point, he observed, that the right of the House to apply

for any information they might want, had been admitted by a number in

the minority, who had opposed the exercise of the right in this

particular case. He thought it clear that the House must have a right,

in all cases, to ask for information which might assist their

deliberations on the subjects submitted to them by the constitution;

being responsible, nevertheless, for the propriety of the measure. He

was as ready to admit that the Executive had a right, under a due

responsibility, also, to withhold information, when of a nature that did

not permit a disclosure of it at the time. And if the refusal of the

PRESIDENT had been founded simply on a representation that the state of

the business within his department, and the contents of the papers asked

for, required it, although he might have regretted the refusal, he

should have been little disposed to criticise it. But the Message had

contested what appeared to him a clear and important right of the House;

and stated reasons for refusing the papers, which, with all the respect

he could feel for the Executive, he could not regard as satisfactory or

proper.

One of the reasons was, that it did not occur to the Executive that the

papers could be relative to any purpose under the cognizance, and in the

contemplation of the House. The other was, that the purpose for which

they were wanted was not expressed in the resolution of the House.

With respect to the first, it implied that the Executive was not only to

judge of the proper objects and functions of the Executive Department,

but, also, of the objects and functions of the House. He was not only to

decide how far the Executive trust would permit a disclosure of

information, but how far the Legislative trust could derive advantage

from it. It belonged, he said, to each department to judge for itself.

If the Executive conceived that, in relation to his own department,

papers could not be safely communicated, he might, on that ground,

refuse them, because he was the competent, though a responsible judge

within his own department. If the papers could be communicated without

injury to the objects of his department, he ought not to refuse them as

irrelative to the objects of the House of Representatives; because the

House was, in such cases, the only proper judge of its own objects.

The other reason of refusal was, that the use which the House meant to

make of the papers was not expressed in the resolution.

As far as he could recollect, no precedent could be found in the records

of the House, or elsewhere, in which the particular object in calling

for information was expressed in the call. It was not only contrary to

right to require this, but it would often be improper in the House to

express the object. In the particular case of an impeachment referred to

in the Message, it might be evidently improper to state that to be the

object of information which might possibly lead to it, because it would

involve the preposterous idea of first determining to impeach, and then

inquiring whether an impeachment ought to take place. Even the holding

out an impeachment as a contemplated or contingent result of the

information called for, might be extremely disagreeable in practice, as

it might inflict a temporary pain on an individual, whom an

investigation of facts might prove to be innocent, and perhaps

meritorious.

From this view of the subject he could not forbear wishing that, if the

papers were to be refused, other reasons had been assigned for it. He

thought the resolutions offered by the gentleman from North Carolina,

one of which related to this subject, ought to stand on the journal

along with the Message which had been entered there. Both the

resolutions were penned with moderation and propriety. They went no

farther than to assert the rights of the House; they courted no reply;

and it ought not to be supposed they could give any offence.

The second object to which the measure related was the constitutional

power of the House on the subject of Treaties.

Here, again, he hoped it may be allowable to wish that it had not been

deemed necessary to take up, in so solemn a manner, a great

constitutional question, which was not contained in the resolution

presented by the House, which had been incidental only to the discussion

of that resolution, and which could only have been brought into view

through the unauthentic medium of the newspapers. This, however, would

well account for the misconception which had taken place in the doctrine

maintained by the majority in the late question. It had been understood

by the Executive, that the House asserted its assent to be necessary to

the validity of Treaties. This was not the doctrine maintained by them.

It was, he believed, fairly laid down in the resolution proposed, which

limited the power of the House over Treaties, to cases where Treaties

embraced Legislative subjects, submitted by the constitution to the

power of the House.

Mr. M. did not mean to go into the general merits of this question, as

discussed when the former resolution was before the committee. The

Message did not request it, having drawn none of its reasoning from the

text of the constitution. It had merely affirmed that the power of

making Treaties is exclusively vested by the constitution in the

PRESIDENT, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate. Nothing

more was necessary on this point than to observe that the constitution

had as expressly and exclusively vested in Congress the power of making

laws, as it had vested in the PRESIDENT and Senate the power of making

Treaties.

He proceeded to review the several topics on which the Message relied.

First. The intention of the body which framed the constitution.

Secondly. The opinions of the State Conventions who adopted it. Thirdly.

The peculiar rights and interests of the smaller States. Fourthly. The

manner in which the constitution had been understood by the Executive

and the foreign nations, with which Treaties had been formed. Fifthly.

The acquiescence and acts of the House on former occasions.

1. When the members on the floor, who were members of the General

Convention, particularly a member from Georgia and himself, were called

on in a former debate for the sense of that body on the constitutional

question, it was a matter of some surprise, which was much increased by

the peculiar stress laid on the information expected. He acknowledged

his surprise, also, at seeing the Message of the Executive appealing to

the same proceedings in the General Convention, as a clue to the meaning

of the constitution.

It had been his purpose, during the late debate, to make some

observations on what had fallen from the gentlemen from Connecticut and

Maryland, if the sudden termination of the debate had not cut him off

from the opportunity. He should have reminded them that this was the

ninth year since the Convention executed their trust, and that he had

not a single note in this place to assist his memory. He should have

remarked, that neither himself nor the other members who had belonged to

the Federal Convention, could be under any particular obligation to rise

in answer to a few gentlemen, with information, not merely of their own

ideas at that period, but of the intention of the whole body; many

members of which, too, had probably never entered into the discussions

of the subject. He might have further remarked, that there would not be

much delicacy in the undertaking, as it appeared that a sense had been

put on the constitution by some who were members of the Convention,

different from that which must have been entertained by others, who had

concurred in ratifying the Treaty.

After taking notice of the doctrine of Judge Wilson, who was a member of

the Federal Convention, as quoted by Mr. GALLATIN from the Pennsylvania

debates, he proceeded to mention that three gentlemen, who had been

members of the convention, were parties to the proceedings in

Charleston, South Carolina, which, among other objections to the Treaty,

represented it as violating the constitution. That the very respectable

citizen, who presided at the meeting in Wilmington, whose resolutions

made a similar complaint, had also been a distinguished member of the

body that formed the constitution.

It would have been proper for him, also, to have recollected what had,

on a former occasion, happened to himself during a debate in the House

of Representatives. When the bill for establishing a National Bank was

under consideration, he had opposed it, as not warranted by the

constitution, and incidentally remarked, that his impression might be

stronger, as he remembered that, in the convention, a motion was made

and negatived, for giving Congress a power to grant charters of

incorporation. This slight reference to the convention, he said, was

animadverted on by several in the course of the debate, and particularly

by a gentleman from Massachusetts, who had himself been a member of the

convention, and whose remarks were not unworthy the attention of the

committee. Here Mr. M. read a paragraph from Mr. GERRY's speech, from

the Gazette of the United States, page 814, protesting, in strong terms,

against arguments drawn from that source.

Mr. M. said, he did not believe a single instance could be cited in

which the sense of the convention had been required or admitted as

material in any constitutional question. In the case of the Bank, the

committee had seen how a glance at that authority had been treated in

this House. When the question on the suability of the States was

depending in the Supreme Court, he asked, whether it had ever been

understood that the members of the bench, who had been members of the

convention, were called on for the meaning of the convention on that

very important point, although no constitutional question would be

presumed more susceptible of elucidation from that source?

He then adverted to that part of the Message which contained an extract

from the Journal of the convention, showing that a proposition "that no

Treaty should be binding on the United States, which was not ratified by

law," was explicitly rejected. He allowed this to be much more precise

than any evidence drawn from the debates in the convention, or resting

on the memory of individuals. But, admitting the case to be as stated,

of which he had no doubt, although he had no recollection of it, and

admitting the record of the convention to be the oracle that ought to

decide the true meaning of the constitution, what did this abstract vote

amount to? Did it condemn the doctrine of the majority? So far from it,

that, as he understood their doctrine, they must have voted as the

convention did; for they do not contend that no Treaty shall be

operative without a law to sanction it; on the contrary, they admit that

some Treaties will operate without this sanction; and that it is no

further applicable in any case than where Legislative objects are

embraced by Treaties. The term "ratify" also deserved some attention;

for, although of loose signification in general, it had a technical

meaning different from the agency claimed by the House on the subject of

Treaties.

But, after all, whatever veneration might be entertained for the body of

men who formed our constitution, the sense of that body could never be

regarded as the oracular guide in expounding the constitution. As the

instrument came from them it was nothing more than the draft of a plan,

nothing but a dead letter, until life and validity were breathed into it

by the voice of the people, speaking through the several State

Conventions. If we were to look, therefore, for the meaning of the

instrument beyond the face of the instrument, we must look for it, not

in the General Convention, which proposed, but in the State Convention,

which accepted and ratified the constitution. To these also the Message

had referred, and it would be proper to follow it.

2. The debates of the convention in three States (Pennsylvania,

Virginia, and North Carolina) had been before introduced into the

discussion of this subject, and were believed the only publications of

the sort which contained any lights with respect to it. He would not

fatigue the committee with a repetition of the passages then read to

them. He would only appeal to the committee to decide whether it did not

appear, from a candid and collected view of the debates in those

conventions, and particularly in that of Virginia, that the

Treaty-making power was a limited power; and that the powers in our

constitution, on this subject, bore an analogy to the powers on the

same subject in the Government of Great Britain. He wished, as little

as any member could, to extend the analogies between the two

Governments; but it was clear that the constituent parts of two

Governments might be perfectly heterogeneous, and yet the powers be

similar.

At once to illustrate his meaning, and give a brief reply to some

arguments on the other side, which had heretofore been urged with

ingenuity and learning, he would mention, as an example, the power of

pardoning offences. This power was vested in the PRESIDENT; it was a

prerogative also of the British King. And, in order to ascertain the

extent of the technical term "pardon," in our constitution, it would not

be irregular to search into the meaning and exercise of the power in

Great Britain. Yet, where is the general analogy between an hereditary

Sovereign, not accountable for his conduct, and a Magistrate like the

PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, elected for four years, with limited

powers, and liable to impeachment for the abuse of them?

In referring to the debates of the State Conventions as published, he

wished not to be understood as putting entire confidence in the accuracy

of them. Even those of Virginia, which had been probably taken down by

the most skilful hand, (whose merit he wished by no means to disparage,)

contained internal evidence in abundance of chasms and misconceptions of

what was said.

The amendments proposed by the several conventions were better

authority, and would be found, on a general view, to favor the sense of

the constitution which had prevailed in this House. But even here it

would not be reasonable to expect a perfect precision and system in all

their votes and proceedings. The agitations of the public mind on that

occasion, with the hurry and compromise which generally prevailed in

settling the amendments to be proposed, would at once explain and

apologize for the several apparent inconsistencies which might be

discovered.

He would not undertake to say that the particular amendment referred to

in the Message, by which two States require that "no Commercial Treaty

should be ratified without the consent of two-thirds of the whole number

of Senators, and that no Territorial right, &c. should be ceded without

the consent of three-fourths of the members of both Houses," was

digested with an accurate attention to the whole subject. On the other

hand, it was no proof that those particular conventions, in annexing

these guards to the Treaty power, understood it as different from that

espoused by the majority of the House. They might consider Congress as

having the power contended for over Treaties stipulating on Legislative

subjects, and still very consistently wish for the amendment they

proposed. They might not consider the Territorial rights and other

objects for which they required the concurrence of three-fourths of the

members of both Houses, as coming within any of the enumerated powers

of Congress, and, therefore, as not protected by that control over

Treaties. And although they might be sensible that Commercial Treaties

were under that control, yet, as they would always come before Congress

with great weight after they had passed through the regular forms and

sanctions of the Treaty department, it might be deemed of real

importance that the authority should be better guarded which was to give

that weight to them.

He asked, whether it might not happen, even in the progress of a Treaty

through the Treaty department, that each succeeding sanction might be

given, more on account of preceding sanctions than of any positive

approbation? And no one could doubt, therefore, that a Treaty which had

received all these sanctions would be controlled with great reluctance

by the Legislature, and, consequently, that it might be desirable to

strengthen the barriers against making improper Treaties, rather than

trust too much to the Legislative control over carrying them into

effect.

But, said Mr. M., it will be proper to attend to other amendments

proposed by the ratifying conventions, which may throw light on their

opinions and intentions on the subject in question. He then read from

the Declaration of Rights proposed by Virginia to be prefixed to the

constitution, the seventh article, which is as follows:

"That all power of suspending laws, or the execution of

laws, by any authority, without the consent of the

Representatives of the people in the Legislature, is

injurious to their rights, and ought not to be exercised."

The Convention of North Carolina, as he showed, had laid down the same

principle in the same words. And it was to be observed that, in both

conventions, the article was under the head of a Declaration of Rights,

"asserting and securing from encroachment the essential and inalienable

rights of the people," according to the language of the Virginia

Convention; and "asserting and securing from encroachment the great

principles of civil and religious liberty, and the inalienable rights of

the people," as expressed by the Convention of North Carolina. It must

follow that these two Conventions considered it as a fundamental,

inviolable, and universal principle in a free Government, that no power

could supersede a law without the consent of the Representatives of the

people in the Legislature.

In the Maryland Convention also, it was among the amendments proposed,

though he believed not decided on, "that no power of suspending laws, or

the execution of laws, unless derived from the Legislature, ought to be

exercised or allowed."

The Convention of North Carolina had further explained themselves on

this point, by their twenty-third amendment proposed to the constitution

in the following words: "That no Treaties shall be directly opposed to

the existing laws of the United States in Congress assembled, shall be

valid until such laws shall be repealed or made conformable to such

Treaty; nor shall any Treaty be valid which is contradictory to the

Constitution of the United States."

The latter part of the amendment was an evidence that the amendment was

intended to ascertain rather than to alter the meaning of the

constitution; as it could not be supposed to have been the real

intention of the constitution that a Treaty contrary to it should be

valid.

He proceeded to read the following amendments accompanying the

ratification of State Conventions:

The New York Convention had proposed "that no standing army or regular

troops shall be raised or kept up in time of peace without the consent

of two-thirds of the Senators and Representatives in each House."

"That no money be borrowed on the credit of the United States, without

the assent of two-thirds of the Senators and Representatives in each

House."

The New Hampshire Convention had proposed "that no standing army shall

be kept up in time of peace, unless with the consent of three quarters

of the members of each branch of Congress." In the Maryland Convention a

proposition was made in the same words.

The Virginia Convention had proposed "that no navigation law, or law

regulating commerce, shall be passed without the consent of two-thirds

of the members present in both Houses."

"That no standing army or regular troops shall be raised or kept up in

time of peace, without the consent of two-thirds of the members present

in both Houses."

"That no soldier shall be enlisted for any longer term than four years,

except in time of war, and then for no longer term than the continuance

of the war."

The Convention of North Carolina had proposed the same three amendments

in the same words.

On a review of these proceedings, may not, said he, the question be

fairly asked, whether it ought to be supposed that the several

Conventions who showed so much jealousy with respect to the powers of

commerce, of the sword, and of the purse, as to require, for the

exercise of them, in some cases two-thirds, in others three-fourths of

both branches of the Legislature, could have understood that, by the

Treaty clauses in constitution, they had given to the PRESIDENT and

Senate, without any control whatever from the House of Representatives,

an absolute and unlimited power over all those great objects?

3. It was with great reluctance, he said, that he should touch on the

third topic--the alleged interest of the smaller States in the present

question. He was the more unwilling to enter into this delicate part of

the discussion, as he happened to be from a State which was in one of

the extremes in point of size. He should limit himself, therefore, to

two observations. The first was, that if the spirit of amity and mutual

concession from which the constitution resulted was to be consulted on

expounding it, that construction ought to be favored which would

preserve the mutual control between the Senate and House of

Representatives, rather than that which gave power to the Senate not

controllable by, and paramount over those of the House of

Representatives, whilst the House of Representatives could in no

instance exercise their powers without the participation and control of

the Senate. The second observation was, that, whatever jealousy might

unhappily have prevailed between the smaller and larger States, as they

had most weight in one or the other branch of Government, it was a fact,

for which he appealed to the journals of the old Congress from its birth

to its dissolution, and to those of the Congress under the present

Government, that in no instance would it appear, from the yeas and nays,

that a question had been decided by a division of the votes according to

the size of the States. He considered this truth as affording the most

pleasing and consoling reflection, and as one that ought to have the

most conciliating and happy influence on the temper of all the States.

4. A fourth argument in the Message was drawn from the manner by which

the Treaty power had been understood by both parties in the negotiations

with foreign Powers. "In all the Treaties made _we_ have declared and

_they_ have believed," &c. By _we_, he remarked, was to be understood

the Executive alone, who had made the declaration, and in no respect the

House of Representatives. It was certainly to be regretted, as had often

been expressed, that different branches of the Government should

disagree in the construction of their powers; but when this could not be

avoided, each branch must judge for itself; and the judgment of the

Executive could in this case be no more an authority overruling the

judgment of the House than the judgment of the House could be an

authority overruling that of the Executive. It was also to be regretted

that any foreign nation should at any time proceed under a misconception

of the meaning of our constitution. But no principle was better

established in the laws of nations, as well as in common reason, than

that one nation is not to be the interpreter of the constitution of

another. Each nation must adjust the forms and operations of its own

government, and all others are bound to understand them accordingly. It

had before been remarked, and it would be proper to repeat it here, that

of all the nations Great Britain would be the least likely to object to

this principle, because the construction given to our Government was

particularly exemplified in her own.

5. In the fifth and last place, he had to take notice of the suggestion,

that every House of Representatives had concurred in the construction of

the Treaty power, now maintained by the Executive; from which it

followed that the House could not now consistently act under a

different construction. On this point, it might be sufficient to remark,

that this was the first instance in which a foreign Treaty had been made

since the establishment of the constitution; and that this was the first

time the Treaty-making power had come under formal and accurate

discussion. Precedents, therefore, would readily be perceived to lose

much of their weight. But whether the precedents found in the

proceedings preparatory to the Algerine Treaty, or in the provisions

relative to the Indian Treaties, were inconsistent with the right which

had been contended for in behalf of the House, he should leave to be

decided by the committee. A view of these precedents had been pretty

fully presented to them by a gentleman from New York, (Mr. LIVINGSTON,)

with all the observations which the subject seemed to require.

On the whole it appeared that the rights of the House on the two great

constitutional points had been denied by a high authority in the Message

before the committee. This Message was entered on the journals of the

House. If nothing was entered in opposition thereto, it would be

inferred that the reasons in the Message had changed the opinion of the

House, and that their claims on those great points were relinquished. It

was proper, therefore, that the questions, brought fairly before the

committee in the propositions of the gentleman (Mr. BLOUNT) from North

Carolina, should be examined and formally decided. If the reasoning of

the Message should be deemed satisfactory, it would be the duty of this

branch of the Government to reject the propositions and thus accede to

the doctrines asserted by the Executive. If, on the other hand, this

reasoning should not be satisfactory, it would be equally the duty of

the House, in some such firm, but very decent, terms as are proposed, to

enter their opinions on record. In either way the meaning of the

constitution would be established, as far as depends on the vote of the

House of Representatives.

APRIL 7.--The order of the day being called for on the consideration of

the PRESIDENT's Message, the House resolved itself into a Committee of

the Whole on that subject, and the resolutions of Mr. BLOUNT having been

read--

Mr. SWIFT and Mr. W. SMITH rose together, but Mr. SMITH giving way, Mr.

SWIFT proceeded to remark, that he did not rise for the purpose of going

into the subject, but to move that the question might be then taken. The

same principles which were involved in the present question, had already

undergone a discussion of three weeks, and no doubt could remain on the

mind of any gentleman in that House on the subject; nor did he think

that if three weeks more were to be consumed in the discussion, one

opinion would be changed. Therefore, as business of the utmost

consequence called for their attention, as it was of the last importance

that the Treaties lately formed with foreign nations should be carried

into effect, he hoped they would enter upon the question of the state of

the Union. If gentlemen wished to carry the Treaties into effect, he

entreated them to come forward and do so; or, if they meant to defeat

them, he wished them at once to say so. If they went into the present

discussion at length, there would not be time sufficient to determine

upon the Treaties. He was willing to let the matter rest upon the

representation of the gentleman from Virginia. He himself had taken no

share in the debate, though if it were to be again gone into, he should

desire to be heard as well as others. But he was fully satisfied that

gentlemen who had spoken on a former occasion would unite with him in

wishing the question to be then taken.

The resolutions were then severally put and carried--51 members rising

for each.

The House then took them up.

The previous question was called, viz: Shall the question now be

put?--on which the yeas and nays were taken, and stood--yeas 54, nays

37.

The yeas and nays were taken on the first resolution, and stood--yeas

57, nays 35, as follows:

YEAS.--Theodorus Bailey, Abraham Baldwin, David Bard,

Lemuel Benton, Thomas Blount, Nathan Bryan, Dempsey Burges,

Samuel J. Cabell, Gabriel Christie, John Clopton, Isaac

Coles, Jeremiah Crabb, Henry Dearborn, George Dent, Samuel

Earle, William Findlay, Jesse Franklin, Albert Gallatin,

William B. Giles, Nicholas Gilman, Andrew Gregg, William B.

Grove, Wade Hampton, George Hancock, Carter B. Harrison,

John Hathorn, Jonathan N. Havens, John Heath, Daniel

Heister, George Jackson, Edward Livingston, Matthew Locke,

William Lyman, Samuel Maclay, Nathaniel Macon, James

Madison, John Milledge, Andrew Moore, Frederick A.

Muhlenberg, John Nicholas, Alexander D. Orr, John Page,

Josiah Parker, John Patton, Francis Preston, John Richards,

Robert Rutherford, John S. Sherburne, Israel Smith, Samuel

Smith, Thomas Sprigg, John Swanwick, Absalom Tatom, Philip

Van Cortlandt, Joseph B. Varnum, Abraham Venable, and

Richard Winn.

_Nays._--Fisher Ames, Benjamin Bourne, Theophilus Bradbury,

Daniel Buck, Joshua Coit, William Cooper, Abiel Foster,

Dwight Foster, Ezekiel Gilbert, Henry Glenn, Benjamin

Goodhue, Chauncey Goodrich, Roger Griswold, Robert Goodloe

Harper, Thomas Hartley, Thomas Henderson, James Hillhouse,

William Hindman, John Wilkes Kittera, Samuel Lyman, Francis

Malbone, William Vans Murray, John Reed, Theodore Sedgwick,

Jeremiah Smith, Nathaniel Smith, William Smith, Zephaniah

Swift, George Thatcher, Richard Thomas, Mark Thompson,

Uriah Tracy, John E. Van Allen, Peleg Wadsworth, and John

Williams.

The second resolution was then taken up, and the yeas and nays stood as

on the first.

The following members were absent when the yeas and nays were called on

the main questions:

Messrs. Brent, Claiborne, Gillespie, Greenup, Holland, New, and

Sitgreaves.

The following members were away upon leave of absence:

Messrs. Freeman, Kitchell, Leonard and Isaac Smith.

It was understood that the following members would have voted for the

resolutions had they been present:

Messrs. Brent, Claiborne, Gillespie, Greenup, Holland, and New.

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