UNITED STATES, November 7, 1792.
The papers accompanying the said message were read and ordered to lie on
the table.
The SPEAKER laid before the House two letters from Thomas Barclay,
Consul of the United States at the Court of Morocco, one dated the 28th
of May, the other the 17th of July, 1792, enclosing petitions from
Richard O'Brien, in behalf of himself and other citizens of the United
States, now in captivity at Algiers, stating the peculiar hardships they
have undergone during the time they have been kept in slavery, and
praying that Congress will consider their distressed situation, and take
such measures for their releasement as to their wisdom shall seem meet.
_Ordered_, That the said letters and petitions be referred to the
Secretary of State, for information.
THURSDAY, November 8.
Several other members, to wit: from Connecticut, JAMES HILLHOUSE; from
Pennsylvania, WILLIAM FINDLAY and ISRAEL JACOBS; and from Kentucky,
ALEXANDER D. ORR, appeared, and took their seats in the House.
SATURDAY, November 10.
Two other members, to wit: PETER SYLVESTER, from New York, and THOMAS
HARTLEY, from Pennsylvania, appeared, and took their seats in the House.
_Address to the President._
The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the
Address to the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, in answer to his Speech
to both Houses of Congress; and, after some time spent therein, the
SPEAKER resumed the chair, and Mr. LAURANCE reported that the committee
had had the said Address under consideration, and made several
amendments thereto; which were severally twice read, and agreed to by
the House.
And then the said Address, as amended, being again read, was, on the
question put thereon, agreed to by the House, as follows:
"SIR: The House of Representatives, who always feel a
satisfaction in meeting you, are much concerned that the
occasion for mutual felicitation afforded by the
circumstances favorable to the national prosperity should
be abated by a continuance of the hostile spirit of many of
the Indian tribes, and, particularly, that the reiterated
efforts for effecting a general pacification with them
should have issued in new proofs of their persevering
enmity, and the barbarous sacrifice of citizens, who, as
the messengers of peace, were distinguishing themselves by
their zeal for the public service. In our deliberations on
this important department of our affairs, we shall be
disposed to pursue every measure that may be dictated by
the sincerest desire, on one hand, of cultivating peace,
and manifesting, by every practicable regulation, our
benevolent regard for the welfare of those misguided
people; and by the duty we feel, on the other, to provide
effectually for the safety and protection of our
fellow-citizens.
"While with regret we learn that symptoms of opposition to
the law imposing duties on spirits distilled within the
United States, have manifested themselves, we reflect with
consolation, that they are confined to a small portion of
our fellow-citizens. It is not more essential to the
preservation of true liberty, that a Government should be
always ready to listen to the representations of its
constituents, and to accommodate its measures to the
sentiments and wishes of every part of them, as far as will
consist with the good of the whole, than it is, that the
just authority of the laws should be steadfastly
maintained. Under this impression, every department of the
Government, and all good citizens must approve the measures
you have taken, and the purpose you have formed, to
execute this part of your trust with firmness and energy;
and be assured, sir, of every constitutional aid and
co-operation, which may become requisite on our part. And
we hope that, while the progress of contentment under the
law in question, is as obvious as it is rational, no
particular part of the community may be permitted to
withdraw from the general burdens of the country, by a
conduct as irreconcilable to national justice, as it is
inconsistent with public decency.
"The productive state of the public revenue, and the
confirmation of the credit of the United States abroad,
evinced by the loans at Antwerp and Amsterdam, are
communications the more gratifying, as they enforce the
obligation to enter on systematic and effectual
arrangements for discharging the public debt, as fast as
the conditions of it will permit; and we take pleasure in
the opportunity to assure you of our entire concurrence in
the opinion, that no measure can be more desirable, whether
viewed with an eye to the urgent wish of the community, or
the intrinsic importance of promoting so happy a change in
our situation.
"The adoption of a constitution for the State of Kentucky,
is an event on which we join in all the satisfaction you
have expressed. It may be considered as particularly
interesting, since, besides the immediate benefits
resulting from it, it is another auspicious demonstration
of the facility and success with which an enlightened
people is capable of providing, by free and deliberate
plans of government, for their own safety and happiness.
"The operation of the law establishing the Post Office, as
it relates to the transmission of newspapers, will merit
our particular inquiry and attention, the circulation of
political intelligence through these vehicles being justly
reckoned among the surest means of preventing the
degeneracy of a free government, as well as of recommending
every salutary public measure to the confidence and
co-operation of all virtuous citizens.
"The several other matters which you have communicated and
recommended, will, in their order, receive the attention
due to them, and our discussions will, in all cases, we
trust, be guided by a proper respect for harmony and
stability in the public Councils, and a desire to
conciliate, more and more, the attachment of our
constituents to the constitution, by measures accommodated
to the true ends for which it was established."
_Resolved_, That the SPEAKER, attended by the House, do present the said
Address, and that Mr. MADISON, Mr. BENSON, and Mr. MURRAY, be a
committee to wait on the PRESIDENT, to know when and where it will be
convenient for him to receive the same.
Mr. MADISON, from the committee appointed to wait on the PRESIDENT OF
THE UNITED STATES, to know when and where it will be convenient for him
to receive the Address of this House, in answer to his Speech to both
Houses of Congress, reported that the committee had waited on the
PRESIDENT, who signified to them that it would be convenient to him to
receive the said Address at 12 o'clock on Monday next, at his own house.
MONDAY, November 12.
Another member, to wit, JOHN BAPTIST ASHE, from North Carolina,
appeared, and took his seat in the House.
_Address to the President._
The SPEAKER, attended by the House, then withdrew to the house of the
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, and there presented to him the Address
of this House, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress; to
which the PRESIDENT made the following reply:
"GENTLEMEN: It gives me pleasure to express to you the
satisfaction which your Address affords me. I feel, as I
ought, the approbation you manifest of the measures I have
taken, and the purpose I have formed, to maintain, pursuant
to the trust reposed in me by the constitution, the respect
which is due to the laws; and the assurance which you, at
the same time, give me, of every constitutional aid and
co-operation that may become requisite on your part.
"This is a new proof of that enlightened solicitude for the
establishment and confirmation of public order, which,
embracing a zealous regard for the principles of true
liberty, has guided the deliberations of the House of
Representatives; a perseverance in which can alone secure,
under the Divine blessing, the real and permanent felicity
of our common country.
"G. WASHINGTON."
The House having returned to their Chamber, resumed the reading of the
papers communicated by the Secretary of War, on Wednesday last, relative
to the Indians north-west and south of the river Ohio, and to the troops
in the service of the United States, and made a farther progress
therein.
TUESDAY, November 13.
Two other members, to wit: ROBERT BARNWELL and DANIEL HUGER, from South
Carolina, appeared, and took their seats in the House.
_Defeat of General St. Clair._
On a motion made and seconded, that the House do come to the following
resolution:
"_Resolved_, That the Secretary of the Treasury and the
Secretary of War be notified that this House intend, on
Wednesday next, to take into consideration the Report of
the committee appointed to inquire into the causes of the
failure of the late expedition under General St. Clair, to
the end that they may attend the House, and furnish such
information as may be conducive to the due investigation of
the matters stated in the said report:"
Mr. WILLIAMSON moved to strike out the latter part of the resolution,
which respected the attendance of the Secretaries on the House. This
motion, if carried, leaves the resolution a simple proposition to inform
those officers that the House were, on Wednesday, to take the report on
the failure of General St. Clair's expedition into consideration.
Mr. VENABLE objected generally to the resolution, as inconsistent with
the dignity of the House. He doubted the propriety of the measure
altogether. The gentlemen are not impeached, and therefore the House has
no right to cite them to make their appearance; and, with respect to
information, the House can command such from the Heads of Departments as
they may see proper to require. He was at a loss in attempting to
investigate the object of the resolution. He could see no purpose that
it would answer, which could not as well be obtained without it.
Mr. WHITE offered several objections to the resolution, of a similar
import with the above.
Mr. DAYTON supported the motion by a few remarks, stating the importance
of that information which those gentlemen alone could give. He adverted
to the report of the committee, which he observed had exculpated the
commanding General on that expedition, whereas he was of opinion that
the failure was owing to the misconduct of that gentleman.
Mr. TUCKER objected to the resolution. He preferred the mode of
requiring that information which the House might think necessary, in
writing.
Mr. MADISON objected to the motion on constitutional grounds, and as
being contrary to the practice of the House. He had not, he said,
thoroughly revolved the matter in his own mind, and therefore was not
prepared to state fully the effects which would result from the adoption
of the resolution; but he would hazard thus much, that it would form an
innovation in the mode of conducting the business of this House, and
introduce a precedent which would lead to perplexing and embarrassing
consequences; as it involved a conclusion, in respect to the principles
of the Government, which at an earlier day would have been revolted
from. He was decidedly in favor of written information.
Mr. CLARK was opposed to the resolution; as a member of the committee
who made the report, he had no apprehension; with respect to
information, the report and the vouchers are before the House; and such
further inquiry may be made of the proper officers as the House may
think necessary.
Mr. AMES supported the resolution. He noticed the impressions which the
failure of the late expedition had made on the public mind. Characters
had suffered in the general estimation. It was of the utmost importance
that a thorough investigation should take place, that if the failure of
the expedition was a mere casualty, and the fortune of war, it might be
made to appear; or if it was owing to misconduct, the blame might fall
on the proper subjects. The mode suggested to obtain information
appeared to him the best that could be adopted--the most adequate to the
object. It was due to justice, to truth, and to the national honor, to
take effectual measures to investigate the business thoroughly. This
inquiry appears to be the beginning of an arrangement preparatory to an
impeachment; on whom this will fall, he should not presume to say; but
still it places the subject in an important point of view, and shows in
the strongest manner the necessity of adopting the best possible mode
of ascertaining the real state of facts. This, he conceived, could not
be done so effectually as by the mode proposed in the resolution.
Mr. GILES objected to the resolution. He preferred a thorough discussion
of the report, in the first place, and a comparison of the vouchers with
the report; and if, in the issue, it should appear necessary to call for
information from these officers, it could then be done; but, in the
present state of the business, to adopt the resolution would place the
committee in a very disagreeable situation.
Mr. LAURANCE observed that the committee, in their report, say that, for
want of time, they had not been able to complete it; it is, then,
apparent from the report itself that it is immature. He stated several
particulars in the report which were incomplete, and from hence inferred
that there was material information to be received previous to being
able to form a competent judgment on the matter. He observed that, as
the information must be had, he saw no necessity of postponing the
attendance of those officers in the first instance.
Mr. MADISON, in reply to Mr. AMES's remark, that the best possible mode
ought to be adopted, observed, that there seemed to be different ideas
entertained by the different advocates of the resolution; one seemed to
implicate the officers alluded to as parties concerned; another appeared
to consider them merely as witnesses. For his part, he thought there was
no other way of proceeding, but that of adopting one or the other of
these alternatives: either to take up the report and discuss its merits,
or for the House to begin the inquiry themselves, _de novo_.
Mr. LIVERMORE objected to the resolution. He could not see any advantage
which would result from adopting it. He thought the causes of the
failure of the expedition were sufficiently obvious, without criminating
any body. He adverted to these causes--they were, the rawness of the
troops, and the superiority of the Indians as marksmen. On these points
he could not see what information could be derived from the Secretary of
the Treasury. He thought that the Legislature had gone too far already,
and that no satisfaction would result from further proceedings, but that
the subject would appear more and more involved.
Mr. BOUDINOT, after stating sundry particulars relative to the state of
the public mind at the time of the report, adverted to several parts of
it which appear to criminate particular persons, some of whom were
absent at the time of the investigation on which the report is founded.
He therefore urged the necessity of receiving from the Heads of the
Departments that information which was requisite to throw light on
several parts of the report, and that this ought to be done previous to
taking the report into consideration.
Mr. FITZSIMONS said he should vote against the resolution. He did not
think this the proper time to call for the information alluded to; nor
the mode proposed a proper one. Some remarks have been made on the
report, though it is not before the House; to these he should not
particularly reply, but would only observe, that no person had applied
to the House for redress of any supposed injury received by the report.
It has been said that the inquiry ought to have been a military one; but
it was well known that it was impossible to institute such an inquiry by
reason of the want of officers. He then gave a sketch of the mode of
proceeding adopted by the committee in conducting the inquiry, to show
that they had availed themselves of every means of information within
their power.
Mr. WILLIAMSON said he had moved to strike out the latter part of the
resolution, but he was equally opposed to the whole of it; and since he
had heard the remarks of several gentlemen, on both sides of the House,
he was clearly of opinion that the best way was to dispose of it
altogether, and let the subject proceed in the course which it had
already taken.
Mr. GILES observed, that he thought there was less delicacy observed on
this occasion, in respect to the committee, than was usual in this
House. With respect to the report, the vouchers on which every assertion
is founded are before the House. As to the incompleteness of the report,
it is an immaterial object; the few blanks it contains are occasioned by
the want of time to examine the voluminous papers necessary to be
examined, in order to ascertain some of the facts--facts not in
themselves of the first importance. He observed, that he had not the
smallest objection to the fullest investigation of the subject; he was
in favor of all the information that could be possibly obtained; he
objected not only to the mode now contended for, which he thought not
only liable to all the objections which had been made, but to many
others which might be offered.
Mr. DAYTON observed that he was one of those who were not satisfied with
the report; he did not think the conclusion which exculpated the
commanding officer could be supported by the report itself. He adverted
to several facts stated in it, which showed that the commander must have
been highly culpable; he instanced the slowness of his movements, the
dilatoriness in constructing forts, and his being surprised by the
enemy. He thought that the remarks which had fallen from gentlemen, on
what he had said, were illiberal, as they had virtually impeached his
candor, when he was not conscious of deviating from its dictates. It was
not his intention to have touched on the merits of the report, but he
had been impelled to do it from the turn the debate had taken.
Mr. GERRY was in favor of the resolution. He enlarged on the magnitude
of the object of investigation, and insisted that it was the
indispensable duty of the House thoroughly to probe the subject to the
bottom, that if any persons have been to blame they may suffer, or if
the event which has taken place, by which the national character has
suffered, and so severe and unproductive an expense has been incurred,
amounting probably to one million dollars, has been owing to
circumstances which could not be avoided or controlled, the public may
receive satisfaction as to the whole matter.
Mr. PAGE objected to the resolution, particularly to the precedent it
would establish; but, at the same time, he was in favor of the fullest
inquiry the subject was susceptible of. He said, the mode proposed would
operate to clog the freedom of inquiry, and the freedom of debate.
Mr. AMES, adverting to the spirit of the report, pointed out the
peculiar situation of the two Secretaries, and that they did not stand
on the same ground with other persons who are not so intimately
implicated in the matter. He alluded to the various objections which had
been urged from precedent, from the fulness of the investigation which
the subject had undergone in the hands of the committee, and from the
remark by Mr. LIVERMORE, that sufficient had already been done. To this
last objection he particularly replied, by saying that the public wanted
further satisfaction, and that the House could not justify themselves to
their constituents without a stricter and fuller investigation, that the
whole of the facts might be laid before them.
Mr. MADISON said, the mode now proposed involved a dereliction of the
only practicable mode of transacting public business; and that, however
imperfect that mode might be, still he believed that it was the only one
that had received the sanction of experience and utility. He therefore
hoped that the resolution would be rejected, and the mode already
adopted persevered in, and the necessary information called for in
writing, from every person in anywise interested or competent to give
it.
Mr. W. SMITH supported the resolution. He showed by the report itself,
and from the reasoning used by gentlemen in opposition to the
resolution, that the two Secretaries were implicated in the causes of
the failure of the expedition; from hence, he inferred the justice and
propriety of giving them an opportunity of exculpating themselves.
Mr. GERRY expressed surprise at the apprehension which some gentlemen
appear to entertain of the measure of introducing the Heads of
Departments into the House; for his part he had no such apprehensions.
The Secretary will attend at the orders of the House merely to give such
information as may be required, and not as members or ministers to
influence and govern the determinations of the House.
Mr. VENABLE objected further to the resolution; he urged the impropriety
of any of the Heads of Departments coming forward, and attempting in any
way to influence the deliberations of the Legislature.
Mr. LAURANCE replied to Mr. VENABLE; he observed that the gentleman
appeared to mistake the object of the resolution; it was not
contemplated that either of the Secretaries should appear on the floor
of the House to influence, in any degree, its decisions; they are to be
called on merely for information.
Mr. MURRAY objected to the resolution. The report, he observed, is made
to the House; if in the course of its discussion any further light or
information should be deemed necessary, it may then be called for, and
in that mode which shall appear most eligible; at present the question
appears to be premature. Mr. MURRAY added several other remarks, and
then the question being put, Mr. WILLIAMSON's motion for striking out
was carried.
And then the main question being put, that the House do agree to the
said resolution as amended, it passed in the negative.
_Resolved_, That the Committee of the whole House, to whom is referred
the report of the committee appointed to inquire into the causes of the
failure of the expedition under Major General St. Clair, be empowered to
send for persons, papers, and records, for their information.
WEDNESDAY, November 14.
Another member, to wit, WILLIAM BARRY GROVE, from North Carolina,
appeared and took his seat in the House.
The SPEAKER laid before the House a letter from the Secretary of War,
together with a memorial of Samuel Hodgdon, late Quartermaster General
to the Army, respectively praying that they may be heard, and permitted
to give information and explanations as to the causes of the failure of
the expedition under Major General St. Clair; which were read. The
letter of the Secretary of War is as follows:
WAR DEPARTMENT, _November 14, 1792_.
SIR: After the close of the last session of Congress, I saw
with much concern the report to the committee appointed to
inquire into the causes of the failure of the expedition,
under Major General St. Clair, of the 8th of May, 1792;
which, having been presented to the House in the last
moments of the session, was ordered to be printed, and has
since circulated in the public newspapers throughout the
United States, containing suggestions, most of them founded
upon _ex parte_ investigation, which have been understood
in a sense very injurious to my reputation.
Learning that the present day was appointed for taking into
consideration the above-mentioned report, I have waited
with anxious expectation for some act of the House enabling
me to attend the progress of the examination upon which
they are about to enter, for the purpose of furnishing such
information and explanations as might conduce to a right
understanding of facts, in which I am so materially
implicated. The failure of a proposition, which I am
informed was made to the House with that view, has added to
my solicitude and regret.
Thus situated, I feel myself called upon to ask of the
justice of the House that some mode may be devised, by
which it will be put into my power to be present during the
course of the intended inquiry, as well to hear the
evidence on which the several allegations contained in the
report are founded, as to offer the information and
explanations to which I have alluded.
To this step I am impelled by a persuasion that an accurate
and satisfactory investigation cannot otherwise be had with
equal advantage, if at all. And my entire reliance upon the
equity and impartiality of the House, will not permit a
doubt to exist on my part that such an investigation will
be exclusively the object of their desire and pursuit.
I have the honor to be, sir, with the highest respect, your
most obedient humble servant,