WEDNESDAY, July 7.
_Seat of Government._
The House again resolved itself into a committee on the bill for
establishing the temporary and permanent seat of Government, Mr.
BOUDINOT in the chair.
Mr. BURKE made some remarks on the observations of Mr. VINING, in which
he exculpated himself from all design to excite mobs and tumults among
the citizens of New York, as had been insinuated by that gentleman. He
declared that he believed the citizens incapable of behaving so much out
of character. For himself, he disclaimed any such idea. He further
observed, that the delegates from Pennsylvania were fully competent to
advocate the interests of their particular State; they had given
abundant evidence of their abilities; they therefore did not need the
assistance of the gentleman from Delaware.
Mr. HARTLEY observed, that it was the fault of the New York Senators
last year that they did not vote for a four years' residence in their
own city, and the permanent one at Germantown, which they could then
have carried. He defended himself and his colleagues from any charge of
want of generosity, and also defended the character of the Quakers. The
gentleman (Mr. BURKE) is not acquainted with the people called Quakers
or their history, or he would entertain different sentiments concerning
them. Under the famous William Penn, they settled the former Province of
Pennsylvania, between the years 1680 and 1690, near the close of the
last century; and such was their justice, wisdom, moderation and good
policy, that they gained reputation abroad. Men emigrated from the
European world to this land of freedom. They preserved peace at home;
for it was not until the year 1753, in a war, fomented on the borders of
another Province, that an inhabitant of Pennsylvania was killed by the
hands of an Indian. The Quakers had always been remarkable for their
moral laws, for the plainness of their manners, and their benevolence.
Nay, should the gentleman go to Philadelphia, he will find that these
people will treat him as well as any other society. They merit not the
abuse which has been so frequently thrown upon them.
Mr. BLOODWORTH thought that if the New York Senators had acted wrong,
yet the people should not be blamed for it. The proposition of Mr.
BURKE was so reasonable and just, that he said he could not avoid
approving of it.
Mr. LAWRENCE defended the New York Senators, and explained the reasons
of their former conduct, which, when it was known, he believed, would
rather merit the approbation of the people. He then proceeded to remark
upon the conduct of New York during the war and since. Her revenue had
been thrown into the Treasury of the United States, and every succor
that could possibly be expected was received from her. Upon the whole,
he wished the dispute of residence could be left to the decision of the
three Northern and three Southern States; and he appealed to the House,
as politicians and men, for the justice of the case.
Mr. WADSWORTH rose next. He was proceeding when he was called to order.
After some altercation on the question of order,
Mr. PAGE spoke to the merits of the question, in which he introduced
several conciliatory observations, and then added, as to the place for
the permanent residence of Congress, any unprejudiced disinterested man
in the world, looking over the map of the United States, would put his
finger on the district pointed out in the bill, and say, "This is your
place, sir." As to going to Philadelphia, it is not my wish to go and
stay there as proposed in the bill; but I say, with my colleague, (Mr.
MADISON,) that I consent to go there to get into a more central
position, and to be fairly on our way to the permanent residence on the
Potomac. As to our present situation, the citizens of New York
themselves acknowledge, nay, even the member himself who has called me
to order, acknowledges that it has no pretensions to be the permanent
residence; and it must be confessed that in proportion as it is improper
for the permanent residence, it must be improper for the temporary
residence. The continuance of Congress here has been acquiesced in by
the Southern States, merely on the supposition that a removal to the
permanent residence would take place sooner if Congress sat here than at
some other place more central. The wise and virtuous citizens of New
York know this, and cannot resist the removal.
Sir, I was not apprehensive that the observations made by gentlemen
yesterday could excite an improper resentment in their minds. There is
not a city in the world in which I would sooner trust myself and
Congress than in New York; for it is superior to any place I know for
the orderly and decent behavior of its inhabitants; but, sir, when the
member behind me, (Mr. BURKE,) who alluded to me when he was last up,
said that they were injured and robbed by Congress, I told him, as a
friend, that had I been in the chair, I should have called him to order.
I confess I was shocked to hear that gentleman's declarations repeated
by a member on the other side of the House, who is remarkable for his
coolness and his peculiar attention to every sentiment offered in debate
(Mr. GERRY.) I took the liberty, when the House adjourned, to tell that
gentleman, perhaps too freely, what I thought respecting those
declarations; if I gave him, or the member behind me any offence, I ask
their pardon; but I still think I should have done my duty had I taken
notice of the impropriety of their declarations in my place in the
House, as a friend to order and freedom of debate.
Mr. LIVERMORE said, that the motion for striking out the Potomac and
inserting Baltimore is so reasonable in itself, that I cannot conceive
there should be one person opposed to it. He observed, that Baltimore is
as far south as the Potomac; the members will then have as far to go to
one as the other. There is a river, it is said, which runs two hundred
miles into the country as far as the Allegany mountains; what advantage
can this be to Congress? I can conceive none, except that it may be to
send the acts of Congress by water to the foot of the Allegany
mountains. He thought that the centre of population was the only true
centre. It is not pretended that the Potomac is at present this centre;
but it is said that it will in time become the centre of population.
What reason is there for any such supposition? The place in which this
favorite spot is has been as long settled as any other part of the
Continent, but the population has not kept pace with many other parts of
the United States; it is therefore entirely chimerical and problematical
whether it ever will become the centre of population. He then enlarged
on the superior advantages of a populous city for the seat of
Government, and concluded by repeating that the amendment is so
reasonable in itself that he hoped every member of the committee would
vote for it.
Mr. GERRY.--In discussing this subject yesterday, I made use of such
arguments as appeared to me pertinent to the occasion. But, sir, those
arguments have had the most extraordinary construction put on them by
the gentleman from Delaware; they have been represented as tending to
excite mobs, and to raise insurrections in this city. Sir, I insist that
the observations I made had a direct contrary tendency. I said that the
bill contained those malignant principles which had a direct tendency to
agitate and inflame the minds of the citizens of America. Those
principles I was endeavoring to expose, and to show what must be their
obvious effects. Is this exciting mobs? Directly the reverse, in my
opinion. I never had any such idea; and as to the citizens of New York,
I have too just a sense of their wisdom and good judgment to harbor such
a sentiment. He then adverted to the constitution, to show that there
could be no danger of an insurrection or rebellion against the
Government. Congress is vested with a sufficient power to protect
themselves from every insult whatever; they have a right to call forth
the whole militia of the Union for their protection. [Here Mr. G. was
called to order, and some altercation ensuing, Mr. G. said he would say
nothing farther on this particular topic.] He then proceeded to state
his arguments against the Potomac, in the course of which he noticed
some observations which had fallen from Messrs. VINING and CLYMER. One
of the gentlemen had said that "Pennsylvania had a right to the seat of
the General Government." This he denied; he said no State in the Union
could pretend to such a right; Congress alone has a right to determine
where the seat of Government shall be. He entered into a lengthy
discussion on the merits of the Potomac, and among other observations
asserted that taking so southern a situation would amount to a
disqualification of many of the Northern members, who would forego their
election rather than attend the National Legislature on that river.
Mr. VINING read a report of a committee of the late Congress, respecting
two seats of Government, in which report Georgetown was mentioned. Mr.
GERRY, being one of this committee, rose to explain.
Mr. SEDGWICK, in a speech of considerable length, stated his objections
to so southern a situation as either Baltimore or the Potomac, and said
that he should have the unhappiness, he feared, of dividing on the
question from his colleagues.
Mr. SHERMAN offered some calculations respecting distances, and made
Baltimore to be the nearest to the centre of any other place that had
been mentioned.
Mr. WHITE said, he had no idea of altering the sentiments of a single
member of the committee; he did not expect the gentleman from New
Hampshire would agree with him. The gentleman from Massachusetts had
said something about the Government going into the wilderness; he said
it was true that there was not at present every accommodation which
gentlemen might wish; but there is every probability that there will be.
He said that such improvements were making in the navigation of the
Potomac as will render it a place affording every accommodation whether
Congress go there or not. He instanced several places on the Potomac
which were at this day sufficiently populous to accommodate Congress. He
then adverted to situations, and observed that a line from the Atlantic,
east and west, to the extreme point mentioned in the bill, will
intersect the State of New Jersey, include the whole of Delaware and
Maryland, and will throw thirty-one members of the representation in the
southern division of the United States. He then observed, that after the
present ferment is subsided, this position will be considered as a
permanent bond of union; and the Eastern States will find their most
essential interests promoted by the measure. He adverted to the trade of
Massachusetts, which he said was greater to Virginia than to the whole
Union besides; the Southern States will be cordial in promoting their
shipping and advancing their interests, when they observe that the
principles of justice influence them on this great national question.
He then remarked on the observation of Mr. SHERMAN respecting the
repealing of the law, and reprobated the principles on which such
observations are founded; he remarked on the attraction of populous
cities, and trusted that other ideas would prevail in this country than
what influenced in fixing the seats of Government in Europe.
Mr. SMITH (of South Carolina) said, he was in favor of the motion, as
the only one which held out a probability of ever fixing on a southern
residence. He enlarged on the difficulty and improbability of ever
removing from Philadelphia. He said that it was evident, from the
present representation, and what is most likely it will be ten years
hence, that Congress could not be removed from that place. He then
stated the number of the members to the southward and northward of
Philadelphia, and observed that the Congress that would exist at the
expiration of ten years may think entirely different from the present,
and will not think themselves bound by the law; but if they should, what
can the measure be denominated but legislating for the next century? A
system proposed the last session, which combined a much greater interest
than the present, failed; and what reason have we to suppose that this
bill will ever be carried into execution? He said no gentleman pretends
that the place proposed is now ready for the reception of the
Government; and even if the buildings were now erected, is there any
gentleman who would give his vote for going there? He would agree to a
place in the neighborhood of Baltimore, and this he supposed was the
furthest southern position the gentlemen from the eastward will ever
consent to. From all the views he could take of the measure, he was
fully convinced that the Potomac was tacked to the bill merely to carry
Philadelphia; he wished gentlemen seriously to consider the consequences
of passing a law which would so intimately and inauspiciously affect the
interests of so many people.
Mr. MADISON objected to the motion for inserting Baltimore, as it would
be risking the bill with a place which has already been repeatedly
rejected by the Senate; he religiously believed, he said, that if
Baltimore was inserted the bill would never pass the Senate; and the
fate of the bill which the gentleman mentions ought to be a serious
warning to us never to risk this with an amendment; the instance,
therefore, produced by the gentleman, is very much against his own
argument.
The question being put for striking out the word "Potomac," and
inserting "Baltimore," it was negatived--37 to 23.
THURSDAY, July 8.
_General Post Office._
The House proceeded to consider the amendments proposed by the Senate to
the bill to establish the Post Office and post roads within the United
States.
The first amendment was to strike out the first and second sections,
which specified and established the several roads, and to insert a
clause empowering the Postmaster General, under the direction of the
President of the United States, to establish them.
A concurrence in this amendment was opposed by Messrs. BLOODWORTH,
WHITE, STEELE, LIVERMORE, HARTLEY, and GERRY.
It was said, that it was delegating the power of legislation to the
Supreme Executive in one of the most important points that could be
mentioned. The revenue also will centre in the hands of the Executive;
and in process of time this revenue may be converted into an engine
destructive to the liberties of the United States; for as it is a
perpetual law, and as the time may, and probably will come, when the
Executive may be corrupt, as the revenue increases, the officers of the
department will be increased, and we do not know to what extent the
consequences may be carried. It is unconstitutional, as that expressly
reserves the power of establishing Post Offices and post roads to the
Legislature. It was further observed, it would be throwing a burden upon
the President which he cannot execute with any convenience to himself,
and, from his situation, with satisfaction to the people. The
representatives of the people, who come from all parts of the United
States, must be supposed to have a more competent knowledge of the
proper places for establishing post roads than the Postmaster General.
A concurrence was advocated by Mr. PARTRIDGE, and Mr. SEDGWICK.
It was said, that upon an accurate calculation it was found that the
roads proposed by the bill as it passed the House, are so numerous, that
so far from affording a revenue, they will prove a great burden to the
United States. The circumstances of the country are continually
changing; the seats of Government in the several States are removed from
their ancient situations to one hundred miles' distance; to accommodate
the people in such cases, old routes must be discontinued and new roads
opened, which will be a perpetual source of legislation and unnecessary
expense. This business was left to the Postmaster General by the late
Congress, and very few complaints were heard; the Postmaster General, by
his office, must be the most competent judge, as the business will be a
principal object of his attention, and actual surveys of the roads will
be made by his assistants in all parts of the United States; but if the
responsibility of this officer is divided into sixty-five parts, every
one of which has its own particular convenience in view, it must appear
evident that all responsibility is entirely dissipated. As to the
unconstitutionality, it was said that the bill proposes no more in the
present instance than is provided for in the other Executive
Departments; the principles of conducting the business are established
by the House; the mode of carrying those principles into execution is
left with the Executive, and this of necessity is done in almost every
case whatever. The House adjourned without coming to a vote.
FRIDAY, July 9.
_Seat of Government._
The House proceeded to consider the bill sent from the Senate for the
establishing the temporary and permanent seat of Government of the
United States.
Mr. BOUDINOT, after expressing his disapprobation of the bill generally,
moved that the Potomac should be struck out and the Delaware inserted,
and called for the yeas and nays; after some debate, this motion was
negatived, as follows:
YEAS.--Messrs. Ames, Benson, Boudinot, Floyd, Foster,
Gerry, Goodhue, Grout, Huntington, Hathorn, Leonard,
Lawrence, Livermore, Partridge, Rensselaer, Trumbull,
Schureman, Sherman, Sylvester, Sturges, Sedgwick,
Wadsworth--22.
NAYS.--Messrs. Ashe, Baldwin, Bloodworth, Brown, Burke,
Cadwalader, Carroll, Clymer, Coles, Contee, Fitzsimons,
Gilman, Heister, Hartley, Jackson, Gale, Griffin, P.
Muhlenberg, Madison, Mathews, Moore, Page, Parker, Lee,
Steele, Scott, Sinnickson, Stone, Sevier, Seney, Smith, (of
Maryland,) Smith, (of South Carolina,) Sumter, Thatcher,
Tucker, Vining, White, Williamson, Wynkoop--39.
Mr. AMES moved to strike out Potomac and insert Germantown, as the
permanent residence. Yeas 22, nays 39.
Variation--Mr. GILMAN, yea; Mr. TRUMBULL, nay.
Mr. SMITH (of Maryland) moved to strike out Potomac and insert between
the Potomac and Susquehanna. Yeas 25, nays 36.
Variation--Messrs. SMITH, (of Maryland,) SMITH, (of South Carolina,)
TRUMBULL, and THATCHER, yea; Mr. SHERMAN, nay.
Mr. LAWRENCE moved to strike out Potomac and insert Baltimore.
YEAS.--Messrs. Ames, Benson, Boudinot, Floyd, Foster,
Gerry, Goodhue, Grout, Hathorn, Huntington, Lawrence,
Leonard, Livermore, Rensselaer, Partridge, Schureman,
Sedgwick, Seney, Sherman, Smith, (of Maryland,) Smith, (of
South Carolina,) Sylvester, Sturges, Thatcher, Trumbull,
Wadsworth--26.
NAYS.--Messrs. Ashe, Baldwin, Bloodworth, Brown,
Cadwalader, Carroll, Clymer, Coles, Contee, Fitzsimons,
Gilman, Gale, Griffin, Hartley, Heister, Jackson, Lee,
Madison, Mathews, Moore, Muhlenberg, Page, Parker, Scott,
Sevier, Sumter, Sinnickson, Steele, Stone, Tucker, Vining,
White, Williamson, Wynkoop--34.
A motion was made to adjourn; which was also negatived.
The bill was then read the third time; and on the question, Shall the
bill pass? the yeas and nays were as follows:
YEAS.--Messrs. Ashe, Baldwin, Bloodworth, Brown,
Cadwalader, Carroll, Clymer, Coles, Contee, Fitzsimons,
Gale, Griffin, Hartley, Heister, Jackson, Lee, Madison,
Mathews, Moore, Muhlenberg, Page, Parker, Scott, Sevier,
Sinnickson, Steele, Stone, Sumter, Vining, White,
Williamson, Wynkoop--32.
NAYS.--Messrs. Ames, Benson, Boudinot, Burke, Floyd,
Foster, Gerry, Goodhue, Gilman, Grout, Hathorn, Huntington,
Lawrence, Leonard, Livermore, Partridge, Rensselaer,
Schureman, Sedgwick, Seney, Sherman, Sylvester, Smith, (of
Maryland,) Smith, (of South Carolina,) Sturges, Thatcher,
Trumbull, Tucker, Wadsworth--29.[37]
THURSDAY, August 12.
Agreeably to the concurrent vote of the two Houses, an adjournment took
place this day--to meet in the city of Philadelphia on the first Monday
in December next.
Previous to the adjournment, a unanimous vote passed both Houses,
returning thanks to the Corporation of this City for the elegant and
convenient accommodations furnished the Congress of the United States.
Adjourned, _sine die_.