From New Jersey, ELIAS BOUDINOT; and from Maryland, WILLIAM SMITH.
No additional member appeared on the 24th.
WEDNESDAY, March 25.
JONATHAN PARKER, from Virginia, appeared and took his seat.
No additional member arrived until the 30th instant.
MONDAY, March 30.
GEORGE GALE, from Maryland, and THEODORICK BLAND, from Virginia,
appeared and took their seats.
No additional member on the 31st instant.
WEDNESDAY, April 1.
Two other members appeared, to wit: JAMES SCHUREMAN, from New Jersey,
and THOMAS SCOTT, from Pennsylvania, who, forming a quorum of the whole
body, it was, on motion,
_Resolved_, That this House will proceed to the choice of a
Speaker by ballot.
The House accordingly proceeded to ballot for a Speaker, when it was
found that a majority of the votes were in favor of FREDERICK AUGUSTUS
MUHLENBERG, one of the Representatives from Pennsylvania. Whereupon Mr.
MUHLENBERG was conducted to the chair, from whence he made his
acknowledgments to the House for so distinguished an honor.
The House then proceeded in the same manner to the appointment of a
Clerk, when it was found that Mr. JOHN BECKLEY was elected.
On motion,
_Ordered_, That the members do severally deliver in their credentials at
the Clerk's table.
THURSDAY, April 2.
LAMBERT CADWALADER, from New Jersey, appeared and took his seat.
FRIDAY, April 3.
GEORGE CLYMER, from Pennsylvania, appeared and took his seat.
SATURDAY, April 4.
GEORGE PARTRIDGE, from Massachusetts, appeared and took his seat.
The House proceeded to the election of a doorkeeper, and assistant
doorkeeper; when Gifford Dudley was chosen to the former, and Thomas
Claxton to the latter office.
MONDAY, April 6.
DANIEL CARROLL, from Maryland, appeared and took his seat.
_Ordered_, That leave be given to bring in a bill to regulate the taking
the oath or affirmation prescribed by the sixth article of the
Constitution; and that Messrs. WHITE, MADISON, TRUMBULL, GILMAN, and
CADWALADER, do prepare and bring in the same.
On motion,
_Resolved_, That the form of the oath to be taken by the
members of this House, as required by the third clause of
the sixth article of the Constitution of Government of the
United States, be as followeth, to wit: "I, A B, a
Representative of the United States in the Congress
thereof, do solemnly swear (or affirm, as the case may be)
in the presence of Almighty GOD, that I will support the
Constitution of the United States. So help me God."
A message from the Senate, by Mr. ELLSWORTH.
Mr. SPEAKER: I am charged by the Senate to inform this
House, that a quorum of the Senate is now formed; that a
President is elected for the sole purpose of opening the
certificates and counting the votes of the electors of the
several States, in the choice of a President and Vice
President of the United States; and that the Senate is now
ready in the Senate Chamber, to proceed, in presence of
this House, to discharge that duty. I have it also in
further charge to inform this House that the Senate has
appointed one of its members to sit at the Clerk's table to
make a list of the votes as they shall be declared,
submitting it to the wisdom of this House to appoint one or
more of its members for the like purpose.
On motion,
_Resolved_, That Mr. Speaker, attended by the House, do now
withdraw to the Senate Chamber, for the purpose expressed
in the message from the Senate; and that Mr. PARKER and Mr.
HEISTER be appointed on the part of this House, to sit at
the Clerk's table with the member of the Senate, and make a
list; of the votes, as the same shall be declared.
Mr. Speaker accordingly left the chair, and attended by the House,
withdrew to the Senate Chamber, and after some time returned to the
House.
Mr. Speaker resumed the chair.
Mr. PARKER and Mr. HEISTER then delivered in at the Clerk's table a list
of the votes of the electors of the several States in the choice of a
President and Vice President of the United States, as the same were
declared by the President of the Senate, in the presence of the Senate
and of this House, which was ordered to be entered on the Journal.[16]
WEDNESDAY, April 8.
Two other members, to wit: JNO. LAWRENCE, from New York, and THOMAS
FITZSIMONS, from Pennsylvania, appeared and took their seats.
_Duties on Imports._
On motion, the House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on
the state of the Union, Mr. PAGE in the chair.
Mr. MADISON.--I take the liberty, Mr. Chairman, at this early stage of
the business, to introduce to the committee a subject, which appears to
me to be of the greatest magnitude; a subject, sir, that requires our
first attention, and our united exertions.
No gentleman here can be unacquainted with the numerous claims upon our
justice; nor with the impotency which prevented the late Congress of the
United States from carrying into effect the dictates of gratitude and
policy.
The union, by the establishment of a more effective government, having
recovered from the state of imbecility that heretofore prevented a
performance of its duty, ought, in its first act, to revive those
principles of honor and honesty that have too long lain dormant.
The deficiency in our Treasury has been too notorious to make it
necessary for me to animadvert upon that subject. Let us content
ourselves with endeavoring to remedy the evil. To do this a national
revenue must be obtained; but the system must be such a one, that, while
it secures the object of revenue, it shall not be oppressive to our
constituents. Happy it is for us that such a system is within our power;
for I apprehend that both these objects may be obtained from an impost
on articles imported into the United States.
In pursuing this measure, I know that two points occur for our
consideration. The first respects the general regulation of commerce;
which, in my opinion, ought to be as free as the policy of nations will
admit. The second relates to revenue alone; and this is the point I mean
more particularly to bring into the view of the committee.
Not being at present possessed of sufficient materials for fully
elucidating these points, and our situation admitting of no delay, I
shall propose such articles of regulations only as are likely to
occasion the least difficulty.
The propositions made on this subject by Congress in 1783, having
received, generally, the approbation of the several States of the Union,
in some form or other, seem well calculated to become the basis of the
temporary system, which I wish the committee to adopt.[17] I am well
aware that the changes which have taken place in many of the States, and
in our public circumstances, since that period, will require, in some
degree, a deviation from the scale of duties then affixed: nevertheless,
for the sake of that expedition which is necessary, in order to embrace
the spring importations, I should recommend a _general_ adherence to the
plan.
This, sir, with the addition of a clause or two on the subject of
tonnage, I will now read, and, with leave, submit it to the committee,
hoping it may meet their approbation, as an expedient rendered eligible
by the urgent occasion there is for the speedy supplies of the federal
treasury, and a speedy rescue of our trade from its present anarchy.
_Resolved_, As the opinion of this committee, that the
following duties ought to be levied on goods, wares, and
merchandise, imported into the United States, viz:
On rum, per gallon, ---- of a dollar; on all other spirituous liquors
----; on molasses ----; on Madeira wine ----; on all other wines ----;
on common bohea teas per lb. ----; on all other teas ----; on pepper
----; on brown sugar ----; on loaf sugar ----; on all other sugars ----;
on cocoa and coffee ----; on all other articles ---- per cent. on their
value at the time and place of importation.
That there ought, moreover, to be levied on all vessels in which goods,
wares, or merchandises shall be imported, the duties following, viz: On
all vessels built within the United States, and belonging wholly to
citizens thereof, at the rate of ---- per ton.
On all vessels belonging wholly to the subjects of Powers with whom the
United States have formed treaties, or partly to the subjects of such
Powers, and partly to citizens of the said States, at the rate of ----.
On all vessels belonging wholly or in part to the subjects of other
Powers, at the rate of ----.[18]
Mr. BOUDINOT.--The necessity of adopting some measure, like the one
proposed by the honorable gentleman from Virginia, is too apparent to
need any argument in its support. The plan which he has submitted to the
committee appears to be simple and sufficiently complete for the present
purpose; I shall, therefore, for my own part, be content with it, and
shall move you, sir, that the blanks be filled up in the manner they
were recommended to be charged by Congress in 1783. My reason for this
is, that those sums have been approved by the Legislatures of every
State represented on this floor, and of consequence must have been
agreeable to the sense of our constituents at that time; and, I believe,
nothing since has intervened to give us reason to believe they have made
an alteration in their sentiments.
Mr. WHITE.--I wish filling up the blanks may be deferred until the
business is more matured; nor will this be attended with a loss of time,
because the forms necessary to complete a bill will require so much as
to give gentlemen leisure to consider the proper quantum of impost to be
laid, as well on the enumerated articles as on the common mass of
merchandise rated _ad valorem_; for, as was hinted by my colleague,
something may have occurred to render an alteration in the sums
recommended in 1783 in some degree necessary; and if so, time will be
given to consider the subject with more attention in the progress of the
bill, and no unnecessary delay can arise; wherefore, I move you, sir,
that the committee now rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit
again.
Mr. MADISON.--I do not consider it at this moment necessary to fill up
the blanks, nor had I it in contemplation at the time I offered the
propositions. I supposed that most of the gentlemen would wish time to
think upon the principles generally, and upon the articles particularly;
while others, who, from their situation and advantages in life, are more
conversant on this subject, may be induced to turn their particular
attention to a subject they are well able to do justice to, and to
assist the committee with their knowledge and information; unless such
gentlemen are now prepared and disposed to proceed in filling up the
blanks, I shall second the motion for the committee's rising.
THURSDAY, April 9.
EGBERT BENSON, from New York, and ISAAC COLES, from Virginia, appeared
and took their seats.
_Duties on Imports._
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the
state of the Union, Mr. PAGE in the chair.
Mr. LAWRENCE.--The subject of the proposition laid before the committee
by the honorable gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. MADISON,) will now, I
presume, Mr. Chairman, recur for our deliberation. I imagine it to be of
considerable importance, not only to the United States, but to every
individual of the Union. The object of the revenue alone would place it
in this situation, and in this light I mean now to consider it. If I am
not mistaken, the honorable mover of the plan viewed it as a temporary
system, particularly calculated to embrace the spring importations;
therefore, in order to discover whether the mode laid before you is well
calculated to answer this end, it will be proper to consider its
operation. The plan consists of certain distinct propositions; one part
is intended to lay a specific sum on enumerated articles, the other a
certain per cent. _ad valorem_: perhaps simplifying the system may be
productive of happy consequences, and it strikes me that confusion and
perplexity will be best avoided by such a measure; hence, it may be
proper to lay a duty at a certain rate per cent. on the value of all
articles, without attempting an enumeration of any; because, if we
attempt to specify every article, it will expose us to a question which
must require more time than can be spared, to obtain the object that
appears to be in the view of the committee. A question, I say, sir, will
arise, whether the enumeration embraces every article that will bear a
duty, and whether the duty to be affixed is the proper sum the article
is able to bear. On this head, sir, I believe that the committee have
not materials sufficient to form even the basis of the system, beside
being wholly incompetent to determine the rate most advantageous to the
article of revenue, and most agreeable to the interest and convenience
of our constituents. Knowledge on these points can only be obtained by
experience; but hitherto we have had none, at least of a general nature.
The partial regulations made by the States, throw but little light on
the subject, and its magnitude ought to induce us to use the greatest
degree of caution.
A system of the nature which I hinted at, will, in my opinion, be not
only less complex and difficult in its formation, but likewise easier
and more certain in its operation; because the more simple a plan of
revenue is, the easier it becomes understood and executed: and it is,
sir, an earnest wish of mine, that all our acts should partake of this
nature. Moreover, by adopting the plan I have mentioned, you will
embrace the spring importation and give time for digesting and maturing
one upon more perfect principles; and, as the proposed system is
intended to be but a temporary one, _that_ I esteem to be best which
requires the least time to form it.
With great deference I have submitted these sentiments to the committee,
as what occurred to me to be the better plan of the two; though, I must
own, it is a subject on which I am not so fully informed as I wish to
be, and therefore hope the indulgence of the committee in considering
it.
Mr. FITZSIMONS.--I observe, Mr. Chairman, by what the gentlemen have
said, who have spoken on the subject before you, that the proposed plan
of revenue is viewed by them as a temporary system, to be continued only
until proper materials are brought forward and arranged in more perfect
form. I confess, sir, that I carry my views on this subject much
further; that I earnestly wish such a one which, in its operation, will
be some way adequate to our present situation, as it respects our
agriculture, our manufactures, and our commerce.
An honorable gentleman (Mr. LAWRENCE) has expressed an opinion that an
enumeration of articles will operate to confuse the business. So far am
I from seeing it in this point of view, that, on the contrary, I
conceive it will tend to facilitate it. Does not every gentleman
discover that, when a particular article is offered to the consideration
of the committee, he will be better able to give his opinion upon it
than on an aggregate question? because the partial and convenient impost
laid on such article by individual States is more or less known to every
member in the committee. It is also well known that the amount of such
revenue is more accurately calculated and better to be relied on,
because of the certainty of collection, less being left to the officers
employed in bringing it forward to the public treasury. It being my
opinion that an enumeration of articles will tend to clear away
difficulties, I wish as many to be selected as possible; for this reason
I have prepared myself with an additional number, which I wish subjoined
to those already mentioned in the motion on your table; among these are
some calculated to encourage the productions of our country, and protect
our infant manufactures; besides others tending to operate as sumptuary
restrictions upon articles which are often termed those of luxury. The
amendment I mean to offer is in these words: I shall read it in my
place, and, if I am seconded, hand it to you for the consideration of
the committee.
_Resolved_, As the opinion of this committee, that the
following duties ought to be laid on goods, wares, and
merchandise imported into the United States, to wit:
[The articles enumerated for duty were beer, ale, and porter; beef,
pork, butter, candles, cheese, soap, cider, boots, steel, cables,
cordage, twine or pack thread, malt, nails, spikes, tacks, or brads;
salt, tobacco, snuff, blank books, writing, printing, and wrapping
paper; pasteboard, cabinet ware; buttons, saddles, gloves, hats,
millinery, castings of iron, slit, or rolled iron; leather, shoes,
slippers, and golo shoes; coach, chariot, and other four wheel
carriages; chaise, solo, or other two wheel carriages; nutmegs,
cinnamon, cloves, raisins, figs, currants, almonds.]
This motion was seconded by Mr. SCHUREMAN.
Mr. WHITE.--I shall not pretend to say that there ought not to be
specific duties laid upon every one of the articles enumerated in the
amendment just offered; but I am inclined to think, that entering so
minutely into the detail, will consume too much of our time, and thereby
lose us a greater sum than the additional impost on the last-mentioned
articles will bring in; because there may be doubts whether many of them
are capable of bearing an increased duty; but this, sir, is not the case
with those mentioned in the motion of my colleague: for I believe it
will be readily admitted on all sides, that such articles as rum, wines,
and sugar, have the capacity of bearing an additional duty besides a per
cent. _ad valorem_. His system appears to be simple, and its principles
I conceive, are such as gentlemen are agreed upon, consequently a bill
founded thereupon would pass this House in a few days; the operation of
the law would commence early, and the treasury be furnished with money
to answer the demands upon it. This law would continue until mature
deliberation, ample discussion, and full information, enabled us to
complete a perfect system of revenue: for, in order to charge specified
articles of manufacture, so as to encourage our domestic ones, it will
be necessary to examine the present state of each throughout the Union.
This will certainly be a work of labor and time, and will perhaps
require more of each than the committee have now in their power. Let us,
therefore, act upon the principles which are admitted, and take in the
most material and productive articles, leaving to a period of more
leisure and information a plan to embrace the whole.
Mr. TUCKER.--In common with the other gentlemen on this floor, I
consider the subject which engages our present deliberations as of very
great importance as it relates to our agriculture, manufactures, and
commerce; I also consider it of consequence that we should give full
satisfaction to our constituents by our decision, be that whatever it
may; and I think this most likely to be effected by establishing a
permanent regulation, although in the interim, a temporary system may be
expedient.
I have no objection, sir, to go so far into the matter as to pass a law
to collect an impost _ad valorem_, whilst it is understood to be but a
temporary system; and likewise to lay a duty on such enumerated articles
of importation as have been heretofore considered as proper ones by the
Congress of 1783. So far, sir, the matter may be plain to us, and we run
no hazard of doing any thing which may give dissatisfaction to any State
in the Union. The duties proposed by the Congress of 1783 were, I
believe, five per cent. on the value of all goods imported, and an
additional duty on a few enumerated articles.[19] This recommendation of
Congress has been so universally received by the several States, that I
think we run no risk of giving umbrage to any by adopting the plan; but
the other articles which have just been offered, are, I apprehend, to
many of us so novel, and, at the same time, so important, as to make it
hard to determine the propriety of taxing them in a few hours, or even
in a few days.
In order to preserve the peace and tranquillity of the Union, it will
become necessary that mutual deference and accommodation should take
place on subjects so important as the one I have first touched upon.
And, in order that this may take place, it is proper that gentlemen
deliver their sentiments with freedom and candor. I have done this in a
manner which I conceived it my duty to do, and shall just repeat that I
wish to confine the question to that part of the motion made by the
honorable gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. MADISON,) which respects laying
a general impost on the value of all goods imported, and the small
enumeration which precedes it: if it is in contemplation to do
otherwise, I shall be under the necessity of moving for a division of
the question. If I should lose this, and a high tonnage duty be insisted
on, I shall be obliged to vote against the measure altogether; when, if
the business is conducted on principles of moderation, I shall give my
vote for it to a certain degree.
Mr. HARTLEY.--If we consult the history of the ancient world, we shall
see that they have thought proper, for a long time past, to give great
encouragement to the establishment of manufactures, by laying such
partial duties on the importation of foreign goods, as to give the home
manufactures a considerable advantage in the price when brought to
market. It is also well known to this committee, that there are many
articles that will bear a higher duty than others, which are to remain
in the common mass, and be taxed with a certain impost _ad valorem_.
From this view of the subject I think it both politic and just that the
fostering hand of the General Government should extend to all those
manufactures which will tend to national utility. I am therefore sorry
that gentlemen seem to fix their mind to so early a period as 1783; for
we very well know our circumstances are much changed since that time: we
had then but few manufactures among us, and the vast quantities of goods
that flowed in upon us from Europe, at the conclusion of the war,
rendered those few almost useless; since then we have been forced by
necessity, and various other causes, to increase our domestic
manufactures to such a degree as to be able to furnish some in
sufficient quantity to answer the consumption of the whole Union, while
others are daily growing into importance. Our stock of materials is, in
many instances, equal to the greatest demand, and our artisans
sufficient to work them up even for exportation. In these cases, I take
it to be the policy of every enlightened nation to give their
manufactures that degree of encouragement necessary to perfect them,
without oppressing the other parts of the community; and under this
encouragement, the industry of the manufacturer will be employed to add
to the wealth of the nation.
Mr. MADISON.--From what has been suggested by the gentlemen that have
spoken on the subject before us, I am led to apprehend we shall be under
the necessity of travelling further into an investigation of principles
than what I supposed would be necessary, or had in contemplation when I
offered the propositions before you.
I am sensible that there is great weight in the observation that fell
from the honorable gentleman from South Carolina, (Mr. TUCKER,) that it
will be necessary, on the one hand, to weigh and regard the sentiments
of the gentlemen from the different parts of the United States; but, on
the other hand, we must limit our consideration on this head, and,
notwithstanding all the deference and respect we pay to those
sentiments, we must consider the general interest of the Union; for this
is as much every gentleman's duty to consider as is the local or State
interest--and any system of impost that this committee may adopt must be
founded on the principles of mutual concession.
Gentlemen will be pleased to recollect, that those parts of the Union
which contribute more under one system than the other, are also those
parts more thinly planted, and consequently stand most in need of
national protection; therefore they will have less reason to complain of
unequal burthens.
There is another consideration; the States that are most advanced in
population, and ripe for manufactures, ought to have their particular
interests attended to in some degree. While these States retained the
power of making regulations of trade, they had the power to protect and
cherish such institutions; by adopting the present constitution, they
have thrown the exercise of this power into other hands: they must have
done this with an expectation that those interests would not be
neglected here.
In my opinion, it would be proper also for gentlemen to consider the
means of encouraging the great staple of America, I mean agriculture;
which I think may justly be styled the staple of the United States, from
the spontaneous productions which nature furnishes, and the manifest
advantage it has over every other object of emolument in this country.
If we compare the cheapness of our land with that of other nations, we
see so decided an advantage in that cheapness, as to have full
confidence of being unrivalled. With respect to the object of
manufactures, other countries may and do rival us; but we may be said to
have a monopoly in agriculture; the possession of the soil, and the
lowness of its price, give us as much a monopoly in this case, as any
nation or other parts of the world have in the monopoly of any article
whatever; but, with this advantage to us, that it cannot be shared nor
injured by rivalship.
If my general principle is a good one, that commerce ought to be free,
and labor and industry left at large to find its proper object, the only
thing which remains will be to discover the exceptions that do not come
within the rule I have laid down. I agree with the gentleman from
Pennsylvania, that there are exceptions, important in themselves, and
which claim the particular attention of the committee. Although the
freedom of commerce would be advantageous to the world, yet, in some
particulars, one nation might suffer to benefit others, and this ought
to be for the general good of society.
The next exception that occurs, is one on which great stress is laid by
some well informed men, and this with great plausibility. That each
nation should have within itself the means of defence, independent of
foreign supplies: that in whatever relates to the operations of war, no
State ought to depend upon a precarious supply from any part of the
world. There may be some truth in this remark, and therefore it is
proper for legislative attention. I am, though, well persuaded that the
reasoning on this subject has been carried too far. The difficulties we
experienced a few years ago, of obtaining military supplies, ought not
to furnish too much in favor of an establishment which would be
difficult and expensive; because our national character is now
established and recognized throughout the world, and the laws of war
favor national exertion more than intestine commotion, so that there is
good reason to believe that when it becomes necessary, we may obtain
supplies from abroad as readily as any other nation whatsoever. I have
mentioned this, because I think I see something among the enumerated
articles that seems to favor such a policy.
Mr. BOUDINOT.--I believe that it will not be disputed, that the best and
easiest way of supplying the public wants, is by raising a revenue on
the importation of goods by way of impost, though the manner in which it
should be done, I confess, is a subject on which I stand greatly in need
of information. I should, therefore, most cordially comply with the
request of the gentleman from South Carolina, (Mr. TUCKER,) in order to
obtain time for consideration, and to wait the arrival of the absent
gentlemen, in order that we may have that assistance which is to be
derived from them. Did I consider the question on the present motion
final, I should be at a loss how to act; but this, I take it, is not the
case. I presume it is intended by the mover only to lay his motion on
the table, with the original propositions open for debate and
consideration, till the committee are possessed of sufficient
information to proceed. I also confess, that, in general, I am in favor
of specific duties on enumerated articles. I shall therefore vote for
the amendment; but, in doing this, I shall not consider myself as bound
to support the whole, nor, indeed, any particular article which, upon
due consideration, I may deem either impolitic or unjust; for I cannot
conceive, that, by adopting the amendment, we tie up our hands, or
prevent future discussion. No, sir, that is not the case; and as I trust
we all have the same object in view, namely, the public good of the
United States, so I hope that a willing ear will be lent to every
proposition likely to promote this end; nor do I doubt but gentlemen are
mutually inclined to sacrifice local advantages for the accomplishment
of this great purpose.
On motion of Mr. LEE, the committee rose and reported progress, and the
House adjourned.
SATURDAY, April 11.
Mr. CLYMER submitted it to the consideration of the committee, how far
it was best to bring propositions forward in this way. Not that he
objected to this mode of encouraging manufactures and obtaining revenue,
by combining the two objects in one bill. He was satisfied that a
political necessity existed for both the one and the other, and it would
not be amiss to do it in this way, but perhaps the business would be
more speedily accomplished by entering upon it systematically.
Mr. BOUDINOT.--It appears to me that this business of raising revenue
points out two questions, of great importance, demanding much
information. The first is, what articles are proper objects of taxation,
and the probable amount of revenue from each. The second is, the proper
mode of collecting the money arising from this fund, when the object and
its amount are ascertained. There are three sources from which we may
gain information on the first question, namely, from the revenue laws of
the different States, for I believe a partial revenue has been raised
almost in every State by an impost. The second source of information,
and a very natural one, is the great body of merchants spread throughout
the United States; this is a very respectable and well-informed body of
our fellow-citizens, and great deference ought to be paid to their
communications--they are in a peculiar situation under the present
constitution, to which they are generally esteemed sincere friends--they
are also more immediately interested in the event of the proposed
measure, than any other class of men. To this Government they look for
protection and support, and for such regulations as are beneficial to
commerce; for these reasons, I think they deserve our confidence, and we
ought to obtain from them such information as will enable the Congress
to proceed to a general permanent system on more solid principles.
There are gentlemen on this floor well calculated to represent the
mercantile interests of this country, and in whose integrity and
abilities I have the highest confidence; but it is the duty of the
members of this body to see that the principles upon which we act, are
those calculated to promote the general good, and not confined to the
local interests of a few individuals, or even individual States, so that
they will decline trusting alone to this species of information, when
another is attainable.
Mr. FITZSIMONS thought it best to make the system as perfect as possible
before the committee determined its duration.
Mr. MADISON, that the subject which was under consideration divided
itself, as had been observed by the honorable gentlemen from Jersey,
into two parts; and hence he concluded that they might very properly be
provided for by two separate bills; and while the Committee of the Whole
are selecting articles and taxing them, another committee can be
employed in devising the mode of collection. This method he thought more
likely to reconcile the opinions of the committee than any he had heard
suggested.
Mr. SHERMAN gave it as his opinion, that in fixing the duties on
particular articles, if they could not ascertain the exact quantum, it
would be better to run the risk of erring in setting low duties than
high ones, because it was less injurious to commerce to raise them than
to lower them; but nevertheless, he was for laying on duties which some
gentlemen might think high, as he thought it better to derive revenue
from impost than from direct taxation, or any other method in their
power. He moved that the article of rum should be charged with fifteen
cents per gallon--he used the term cents because it was a denomination
of national coin, fixed by the late Congress, ten of which make a _dime_
and ten _dimes_ one dollar.
Mr. SMITH was apprehensive fifteen cents would be too high, and
therefore moved ten cents, which he thought would raise more revenue
than the other.
Mr. MADISON advised and moved for the rising of the committee, in order
to give gentlemen time to make up their minds respecting the quantum of
impost to be laid on each article.
MONDAY, April 13.
WILLIAM FLOYD, from New York; THOMAS SINNICKSON, from New Jersey; JOSHUA
SENEY, from Maryland; EDANUS BURKE, DANIEL HUGER, and WILLIAM SMITH,
from South Carolina, appeared and took their seats.
On motion,
_Ordered_, That Mr. BENSON, Mr. PETER MUHLENBERG, and Mr. GRIFFIN, be a
committee to consider of and report to the House respecting the
ceremonial of receiving the President, and that they be authorized to
confer with a committee of the Senate for the purpose.
TUESDAY, April 14.
_Duties on Imports._
The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the
state of the Union; Mr. PAGE in the chair.
Mr. BLAND, from Virginia, thought the committee not prepared to enter on
the business of impost in the accurate manner which the form of the
propositions seemed to imply. No gentleman on the floor could be more
desirous than he was to go into the measure of a permanent system; but
he could not agree to proceed at this time, for want of information.
When he looked at the list of articles, he saw some calculated to give
encouragement to home manufactures. This might be in some degree proper;
but it was a well-known fact, that the manufacturing arts in America
were only in their infancy, and far from being able to answer the
demands of the country; then certainly you lay a tax upon the whole
community, in order to put the money in the pockets of a few, whenever
you burthen the importation with a heavy impost.
Mr. SCOTT.--The subject before us naturally divides itself into two
heads. First, what article shall be the subject of a particular tax, and
what shall remain in the common mass liable to an impost _ad valorem_?
The second, what the sum is that is proper for the article we select?
For both these points will be necessary, because it can hardly be
supposed that all articles can be enumerated, while some certainly
ought. This being the case, it leads us to inquire what rule or
principle shall be laid down in order to make a proper discrimination;
for surely some reason should be assigned for this distinction. I
presume the particular article which is to be subjected to an
extraordinary duty must either come at so cheap a rate, according to its
intrinsic value, as to bear a greater impost without being unreasonably
expensive, or it must be one which we do not stand in need of at all,
and only used for the purposes of luxury. If an article does not come
within one of these descriptions, I see no reason why it should be taxed
in an extraordinary manner.
On motion of Mr. GALE, the word _rum_ was changed into distilled spirits
of Jamaica proof.
Mr. LAWRENCE proposed to lay twelve cents on this article, saying, I
believe, Mr. Chairman, it will be necessary to consider, when we are
about to lay a duty on any article, how far it is likely to be
collected, especially if our main object is to obtain revenue by our
impost. I trust it does not require much illustration to prove to the
satisfaction of the committee, that if you lay your duties too high, it
will be a temptation to smuggling; for, in the proportion which that sum
bears to the value of the article, will be the risk run in every attempt
to introduce it in a clandestine manner, and, if this temptation is made
too strong, the article will furnish no revenue. I believe, if the
committee shall impose a duty of fifteen cents, as proposed by the
gentleman from Connecticut, (Mr. SHERMAN,) it will be so strong a
temptation for smuggling, that we shall lose our revenue altogether, or
be compelled to use a mode of collection probably different from what we
have been accustomed to--a mode so expensive as to absorb the whole
produce of the tax.
I wish to lay as large a sum on this article as good policy may deem
expedient; it is an article of great consumption, and though it cannot
be reckoned a necessary of life, yet it is in such general use, that it
may be expected to pay a very considerable sum into your treasury, when
others may not with so much certainty be relied upon. But, when we
consider the relative proportion of the first cost of it, and the
fifteen cents duty, we shall find it about one third. This, I cannot
help thinking, is too high, as the risk of a total loss may be ventured
in order to save so great a sum; it is surely a great temptation, and I
dread its consequences on more accounts than one.
Mr. MADISON.--I would tax this article with as high a duty as can be
collected, and I am sure, if we judge from what we have heard and seen
in the several parts of the Union, that it is the sense of the people of
America that this article should have a duty imposed upon it weighty
indeed. The duty proposed by the gentleman from New York (Mr. LAWRENCE)
very little exceeds what is laid in this State, and very little what is
laid in some other States, while some have thought it expedient to
impose an excise superior. The question then is, whether the highest sum
can be collected? I am of opinion that higher duties may generally be
collected under the government of the Union than could be under that of
the particular States, because it has been the policy of some, not only
to decline going hand in hand together, but actually to oppose
regulations made in a neighboring State. Being persuaded, likewise, that
the highest sum will not exceed the power of the law to enforce the
collection of, I shall vote for it.
Mr. BOUDINOT.--I am in favor of taxing this article as high as there is
a probability of collecting the duty. I think our doing so will answer
two or three good purposes. The present object of the committee is to
raise a revenue, and no article on the list before you is more likely to
be productive than this one; but a high duty may also discourage the use
of ardent spirits; if not, it may discourage the West Indies from
turning their molasses into rum. This being the case, they have no other
market for molasses than this country, and our own distilleries, with
the advantages arising therefrom, will be able to rival them in the
manufacture of that article; so far it may tend to the benefit of the
country. I conceive it might be proper, on these accounts, to lay a much
higher duty than has been proposed, were it not for the considerations
mentioned by the gentleman from New York, that we run a risk of losing
all by grasping at too much.
Mr. LAWRENCE.--The sum proposed is higher than the duty collected in
this State, which is about eight cents; I fear, therefore, that it
cannot be collected. If we are to reason and act as moralists on this
point, I am certain it is the wish of every member to prevent the use of
ardent spirits altogether, for their influence on the morals of the
people is of the most pernicious kind. Nor does the mischief terminate
here, as I apprehend it is equally destructive to the health; but we are
not to deliberate and determine on this subject as moralists, but as
politicians, and endeavor to draw (if I may use the expression) from the
vices of mankind, that revenue which our citizens must, in one form or
other, contribute. The question is, what shall be the duty on any
particular article? To accomplish this purpose, we must determine by the
circumstances of that article. Now, if we lay a high duty on Jamaica
rum, it is supposed it will prevent the consumption; but then the
purpose we have in view is frustrated, either because we cannot collect
the tax, or the object of it is no longer imported. The consequence in
this latter case would be, that the morals of our citizens are not
impaired; yet it does not appear to me that this consequence would
certainly flow from a system of high duties. I rather fear it would lead
no further than to set men on schemes to evade the duty; and none of us
are ignorant of the ingenuity and invention which can be exercised, when
interest prompts mankind to an evasion of the law. We know the situation
of the different States; the coast disposed by its prodigious extent to
favor every means of illicit trade. A cargo of rum could be landed in
Jersey, and the whole, reshipped in small vessels, might soon be brought
into this city. If this should be the effect of our law, we have no
other way to correct the operation, but by adopting a mode of collection
odious to all, on account of the numerous train of officers it would
require in its execution. But there would also be a danger of vessels
running into creeks and small inlets, for the purpose of landing their
cargoes, as well as on the sea-shore. Hence a necessity would arise of
employing a number of vessels to check and correct such abuses, and the
probable event would be, that all the impost collected would go to
defray the expense of getting it into the treasury.
The committee now agreed to tax ardent spirits, of Jamaica proof,
fifteen cents; and all other spirituous liquors twelve cents.
On filling up the blank on molasses:
Mr. MADISON.--It is agreed, I presume, that spirits of every kind are
proper objects of taxation, but whether we shall tax spirits in the case
before us, or whether we shall tax the article from which it comes, is a
question worthy of the consideration of the committee for several
reasons. I believe it will be best to lay our hands on the duty, by
charging this article on its importation, to avoid a more disagreeable
measure. I would, therefore, lay such a duty on molasses, as is
proportioned to what we have affixed upon rum, making an allowance in
favor of our own manufacture. I think eight cents per gallon will allow
a sufficient advantage to them, but of this I am not positive, and,
therefore, shall not pertinaciously adhere to that sum, if it be
thought too high; but I presume I am right in the principle upon which I
contend, that we ought to collect the duty on the importation of
molasses, in preference to any other way.
Mr. FITZSIMONS.--I think the duty on this article depends, in a great
measure, upon what has been already agreed to. If the tax of West India
and country rum is not well proportioned, it may be destructive of the
end we have in contemplation. If, agreeably to the idea of the gentleman
from New York, we affix a low duty, a great deal more rum will, in all
probability, be distilled and used, than heretofore; of course, it will
effectually rival the Jamaica rum, and the Union will lose the revenue
which we calculate upon. Eight cents, I apprehend, is as well
proportioned to the other taxes as can be devised.
Mr. GOODHUE considered molasses as a raw material, essentially requisite
for the well-being of a very extensive and valuable manufacture. It
ought likewise to be considered (as was truly stated) a necessary of
life. In the Eastern States it entered into the diet of the poorer
classes of people, who were, from the decay of trade and other
adventitious circumstances, totally unable to sustain such a weight as a
tax of eight cents would be upon them. Moreover, the tax was upon
particular States as well as individuals, for it was a fact of public
notoriety, that Massachusetts imported more molasses than all the other
States together. She imports from 30,000 to 40,000 hogsheads annually.
He would make one observation more. It had been the policy of Great
Britain, as he well remembered, to encumber and depress the distillation
of molasses. To do this, at one time they laid a duty of three pence
sterling per gallon. It was conceived to be an oppressive measure, but
it had little other effect than to cause heart-burnings and enmity. It
produced no revenue, and the Parliament were forced to reduce the duty
to a penny. From experience, therefore, as well as from the arguments
before urged, he was inclined to believe that the committee would be
satisfied with fixing a lower sum. He could not consent to allow more
than two cents.
Mr. THATCHER.--It appears to me, that for the want of a certain and
fixed principle to act upon, there is a great danger of making some
improper establishments. It is for this reason that I wish not to hurry
on the business with so much precipitation. Did gentlemen consider, when
they agreed to a high duty on ardent spirits, that it would be a pretext
for increasing the duties on a necessary of life. I presume a principal
reason why a high tax on spirits was admitted, was in order to
discourage the use of it among ourselves. If this was the intention of
the committee, I have no objection to the burthen; but, even here, I
fear difficulties will arise. Did we judiciously examine whether the
spirit of the law accords with the habits and manners of the people? and
did we assure ourselves of the full execution of the law? If we did
not, the act becomes impolitic, because a law which cannot be executed
tends to make the Government less respectable.
Mr. AMES.--I have not had the advantage of hearing all the arguments in
support of the eight cents proposed; but those I have heard I am not
satisfied with. The principles on which this tax is founded, I
understand to be this: that it is an article of luxury, and of pretty
general consumption, so that the duty is expected to fall equally upon
all; but that it will not operate in this manner, I think is easily
demonstrable. Can a duty of fifty per cent. _ad valorem_, paid, as it
were, in an exclusive manner, by the State of Massachusetts, be equal?
No, sir. But taking it as a part of the general system, can it be equal
unless a proportionable duty, equal to fifty per cent., is laid upon
articles consumed in other parts of the Union? No, sir; and is it in the
contemplation of gentlemen to lay duties so high as to produce this
equality? I trust it is not; because such duties could never be
collected. Is not, therefore, eight cents disproportioned to the rates
fixed, or intended to be imposed on other articles? I think it is; and,
if to these considerations we add what has been said before, relative to
its being a raw material important to a considerable manufacture, we
cannot hesitate to reject it.
However gentlemen may think the use of this article dangerous to the
health and morals of our fellow-citizens--I would also beg them to
consider, that it is no more so than every other kind of spirituous
liquors; that it will grow into an article for exportation; and although
I admit we could export it even encumbered with the duty proposed, yet
by it we run the risk of having the manufacture totally ruined, for it
can hardly now stand a competition at home with the West India rum, much
less can it do so abroad. If the manufacturers of country rum are to be
devoted to certain ruin, to mend the morals of others, let them be
admonished that they prepare themselves for the event: but in the way we
are about to take, destruction comes on so sudden, they have not time to
seek refuge in any other employment whatsoever. If their situation will
not operate to restrain the hand of iron policy, consider how
immediately they are connected with the most essential interests of the
Union, and then let me ask if it is wise, if it is reconcilable to
national prudence, to take measures subversive of your very existence?
For I do contend, that the very existence of the Eastern States depends
upon the encouragement of their navigation and fishery, which receive a
deadly wound by an excessive impost on the article before us.
I would concur in any measure calculated to exterminate the poison
covered under the form of ardent spirits, from our country; but it
should be without violence. I approve as much as any gentleman the
introduction of malt liquors, believing them not so pernicious as the
one in common use; but before we restrain ourselves to the use of them,
we ought to be certain that we have malt and hops, as well as
brew-houses for the manufacture. Now, I deny that we have these in
sufficient abundance to the eastward; but if we had, they are not taxed.
Then why should the poor of Massachusetts be taxed for the beverage they
use of spruce, molasses and water? It surely is unreasonable. I hope
gentlemen will not adopt the motion for eight cents until they are
furnished with some better evidence of its propriety and policy than any
that has yet been given, or as I suspect that can be given.
Mr. FITZSIMONS was pleased that gentlemen went so fully into a
discussion of a subject which they conceived of great importance, but he
begged them not to lose sight of an observation that had already been
made, that whenever a particular duty was supposed to bear hard on any
one member of the Union, it ought to be regarded as a part only of a
system bearing equally upon all. He was a friend to commerce, it was his
particular profession, and what he had principally devoted his attention
to; and therefore it might justly be imagined he was unwilling to fetter
it with restraints; but as a member of this body, he considered it
proper to forego a pertinacious adhesion to that system, when its
interest came in competition with the general welfare.
The gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr. Ames) has represented the proposed
regulation as tending eventually to the ruin of the commerce, fisheries,
and manufactures of that State. I do not believe (added he) such a
consequence would result from a duty of eight cents on a gallon of
molasses; if I did, I would be one of the last to advocate the measure;
but to understand this circumstance more fully, let us proceed to an
inquiry of the ground on which we stand. The State of Massachusetts
imports a greater proportion of this article than any other in the
Union; she will have therefore (say the opponents of the measure) to pay
exclusively all the impost upon it. Let us examine this. Some part of
the molasses is consumed in the substance, but all the remainder is
distilled: this must either be consumed in the State, or exported from
it; in the latter case, I would propose that all the rum shipped to
foreign nations should draw back the duties it had paid as molasses.
This would obviate all that was said relative to the competition between
this State and other nations at a foreign market. As to what is
exported, but consumed in some other parts of the United States, it is
but proper that a duty should be paid, and although it may be advanced
in the first instance by the people of Massachusetts, yet it will be
ultimately paid by the consumers in other parts.
What is consumed within the State itself, gentlemen surely do not mean
to have excluded from a duty. If they consume more country rum than West
India, they pay a less duty than those States which consume a greater
proportion of the latter. As to what is used in its raw, unmanufactured
state, it will be sufficient to observe, that as it is generally a
substitute for sugar, the consumers will therefore avoid the tax on that
article, and pay it on the other. In Pennsylvania they mostly use sugar;
now, if the people there pay a tax on that article, it is but
distributive justice that the people of Massachusetts pay one on the
article they use for the same purpose.
Mr. GOODHUE.--Fifteen cents, the sum laid on Jamaica spirits, is about
one-third part of its value; now eight cents on molasses is considerably
more: the former is an article of luxury, as was observed when it was
under consideration, therefore that duty might not be improper; but the
latter cannot be said to partake of that quality in the substance, and
when manufactured into rum, it is no more a luxury than Jamaica spirits.
I cannot see, therefore, why molasses ought to be taxed forty or fifty
per cent. when the other pays but thirty-three. Surely the substance
ought not to pay at this rate--then what good reason can be offered for
the measure?
Mr. BOUDINOT had attended to the arguments of the gentlemen on both
sides of the question, and was led to believe the proportion was not
properly observed. By the resolution of Congress in 1783, the molasses
was fixed upon due consideration at one penny, and West India rum at
fourpence. The proposed proportion was two-thirds of what is charged on
West India rum. He thought this too high, as it would be an encumbrance
on a considerable manufacture; six cents were therefore a more equitable
rate than eight cents were; he believed also, that it was as much as the
article would bear, especially if it was considered that the whole of
the article was not manufactured into rum, but a large proportion
consumed in substance. This might also be near what is intended to be
charged on sugar; by fixing it at this rate, the necessity of lowering
the duty at some future day would be avoided, which he thought an object
worthy of the committee's consideration.
Mr. BOUDINOT wished the gentleman to consider the difference in the
price; if he did that, he would allow it to be reduced to six cents; if
this principle could now be fixed, it would carry them through the
whole.
Mr. PARTRIDGE allowed, if all the molasses was distilled into rum, that
a small duty might be proper; but when it was considered as an article
of sustenance to the poor, and as a requisite to the support of the
fisheries and navigation, he hoped the committee would allow but a very
small one indeed. He wished it was possible to discriminate between what
was manufactured into rum, and what was consumed in the raw state,
because a higher duty might be collected in the former case than in the
latter.
Mr. FITZSIMONS stated, that there were 327,000 gallons of rum imported
into Pennsylvania in 1785, which would tend to show how great a part
was consumed by the citizens of the Union; a demand in one State so
great as this, proved how likely it was for New England rum to rival the
West India. He thought the prices of the two articles gave the country
rum a very considerable advantage, and therefore a duty of seven cents
could not be very injurious to the manufacture.
The question was put on seven cents and lost.
And it was agreed to fill the blank with six cents.
On filling up the blank on Madeira wine,
Mr. SHERMAN moved fifteen cents.