Q. Which side?
A. I think on the left side.
Q. Where--what part of the city?
A. He was wounded out in the neighborhood of Thirty-seventh or
Thirty-eighth streets.
Q. Was his a gun-shot wound?
A. I think it was a pistol shot.
Q. What were the others?
A. The others appeared to me like a pistol shot. This boy Jones, he was
there in the hospital. He was shot in that place. His wound appeared
like a pistol-shot wound. He was shot about the forks of the road. That
would be, I suppose, Thirty-fifth street, maybe. Then there was another
man by the name of Scott that was wounded in the leg. I didn't see his
wound.
* * * * *
Mayor Phillips, _sworn_:
By Mr. Means:
Q. I would like to ask you one question. The committee would like to
know, or I would, at least, if you put Allegheny City into the hands of
this man Ammon, and if so, what you told him?
A. Put Allegheny city into the hands of Ammon?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. Emphatically, no! I never put anything into the hands of Ammon.
Q. Did you tell him to take charge of the lower part of Allegheny City?
A. I did not, sir.
Q. Did you tell him to resist any arrest that might be attempted to be
made upon him?
A. Positively, no! I will tell you what I did say. When I went, I found
there were five or six hundred men, and my force was very small and I
cautioned them to be careful what they are doing, that they would get
themselves into trouble, there is danger ahead, and says I, "Be careful
what you are doing." That was the sum and substance of what I said. I
cautioned Ammon, and it turns out there were three or four of my
officers heard me say so. The chief of police is here now, if you would
like to have him corroborate it.
Q. Do you know of any official communication that Ammon had with the
railroad officials?
A. I do not, sir.
Q. Do you know of any communication at all that he had with them?
A. Hearsay, sir. I know nothing of my own knowledge--only heard it
indirectly, from some person to me, that he had something from J. D.
Layng.
Q. He did not tell you himself?
A. No, sir.
Q. Saw no telegram from Mr. Layng to him?
A. No, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you have any conversation with Mr. Robert Ammon during the time
he had charge of that railroad--the Fort Wayne railroad?
A. Yes, sir; I had conversation--at the time he had charge?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. I did not know that he had charge. He was there.
Q. Did he tell you at any time that one of your police officers
attempted to arrest him, and he refused to be arrested?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know of the fact that one of your police officers attempted
to arrest him?
A. No, sir.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did you, at any time, attempt to arrest Ammon--any of your officers?
A. Afterwards. Will I give you the particulars of that, sir--the time
that I went down with the policemen to protect that ten miles of
freight, and again to bring up the first lot.
Q. What day was that?
A. I cannot tell you.
Q. That was after the riot?
A. Several days.
Q. I mean the Friday morning when the trouble first commenced in
Allegheny?
A. It was Thursday or Friday before the troubles over here--Thursday or
Friday. You asked me about something on Friday?
Q. Yes?
A. No. I only went down there at that time. I think that is the only
time I ever saw him, except after that, the day he was arrested.
Q. Did he tell you that one of your officers had attempted to arrest
him, and he refused to submit, because he had not a warrant?
A. No; I don't remember that--because he hadn't a warrant. No, sir. I
never heard of this thing, either through Ammon or the policeman. I
know nothing of it at all. I don't believe it.
Q. Do you remember Ammon telling you this?
A. No; I do not.
Q. That you said in reply that that was right, and for him to go ahead?
A. That's stuff. That ain't my style.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Allow no man to arrest him?
A. Oh, no, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. At any time sent policemen to arrest Mr. Ammon, in preserving the
peace?
A. I sent police down. I sent a note over to--I am not sure whether I
sent the note over to see John McCauley, and he needed protection away
down the road. I understood that the men would protect the property as
long as they could, and when they were worn out and weary, they would
send me word, and I would put out a police force to protect the city.
This was several days after that. I did so. I sent them ten or twelve
miles down the road. I had no authority to do it with the city police,
but they agreed to pay, and have since paid, an improvised police
force.
Q. The railroad men, although they were on a strike, did they show any
disposition to be riotous or lawless, and destroy property?
A. Not at all, sir. They told me at this Sunday meeting, that they
would do all they could to protect the property until the matters were
settled in regard to wages, or something, with the company.
Q. Did you have any information, or make any arrests of them--interfere
with them?
A. No, sir. They said some of the trains were going through which were
stopped. I didn't make any arrest before. I cautioned them prudence and
carefulness, and the danger and the risk they were running. The men
pledged me what they would do to protect the property, and they did it
manfully. One night they came up and said they were worn out, and I had
the promise of a hundred men to come down from off the hill, and the
men didn't come, and one of the messengers came from the railroad men,
and I told him I was very sorry, I had been promised one hundred men,
and they didn't come, and I would have to ask them to go back again
that night, and they did it, though worn out, with a positive assurance
from me that I would see that they were relieved the next day.
Q. Those were railroad men?
A. Those were railroad men.
Q. Ammon applied to you for assistance?
A. I never saw Ammon, but that one day.
Q. Never applied to you for assistance at all?
A. No, sir; I don't believe he did.
* * * * *
W. D. Ross, _sworn_:
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. Allegheny City.
Q. What was your occupation in July last?
A. I was chief of police.
Q. Of Allegheny City?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you present during the conversation between Mayor Phillips and
Robert Ammon, or Boss Ammon, or Bob Ammon, or whatever his name is?
A. I was present a part of the time. I was not there all of the time.
Q. Be kind enough to state what your recollection of the occurrence is?
A. Well, I was on the scene of action down there before Mayor Phillips
came--had been called down. I think I was in Pittsburgh when the word
came to the office that they wanted some men down to help disperse this
riot--preventing cars from going out, and, I think, took fourteen or
fifteen men down, and found a large crowd. I suppose there was two
hundred or two hundred and fifty persons there, with an apparent
determination to prevent the cars from going out, and showing the
disposition manifested by them. They were armed with links and coupling
pins, and a great many of them had clinkers. I saw that they were
determined to make resistance, and I talked to Mr. Ross, the
dispatcher, and told him to send down a car, and see if they could get
through. I told Ammon we had come there for the purpose of stopping any
violence that might be offered to the railroad employés, and we were
informed that a crowd was there to offer resistance, from this side of
the river--from Pittsburgh. His answer was, "Not a God damn bit of it."
He says, "We are all employés of the Fort Wayne road. We have been
discharged from the employment, and there are no Pittsburghers here,
and we don't intend to let one pound of freight go out of this yard
until our terms were complied with." And when I told him it was a
pretty high-handed measure, or something like that, to take possession
of the railroad and its property, and they would get into trouble,
"Well," he said, "we might just as well die here as be starved to
death," and he told me that they had this thing organized all over the
country. It was not confined to Pittsburgh. It was North, South, East
and West, and he had been in possession of the facts; and, says he, "I
could stop it as quick as that," snapping his fingers, "by telegraphic
dispatch that our terms are complied with." I had instructed a dispatch
man to send down a locomotive and cars, and see if they could pass us,
and when the cars came down Ammon stopped it, says, "Now is our time to
strike," and he stepped up in front. The whole crowd rushed with him.
They stopped the cars and mounted the locomotive, about two or three
with him, and ordered them to return to the yard. They had no business
coming out, and they reversed their engine and went back, and I saw
there was no use in attempting to make an arrest. There was ten to one
against us, and as determined to not be arrested as we would be to
arrest them. When the cars ran back, I says, "Now, Ammon, you have
taken possession of the road by violence, and we don't want to offer
any resistance. The question will be determined by law whether you are
going to hold it, or whether the railroad company is entitled to it." I
thought the best way was to act with persuasion, and, says I, "You will
be held responsible. If you have any right to do this, it will be a
matter to be determined by law. We don't want to see any violence
offered." I told Ross that I did not think it was worth our while to
attempt to arrest them.
Q. Told whom?
A. Ross, the dispatcher in the yard. While we were talking about it,
Mayor Phillips came down, and I went over to talk to the mayor. I left
Ammon, and I think I remarked to the mayor that we were not able to do
anything, and then Ammon came up and began to talk with him. The mayor
told him he had need to look out, he would get into trouble. Something
of that kind, that was the remark I heard. The mayor talked to him,
that it was a high-handed measure, or something of that kind--I could
not say positively what--something to that effect. I heard Ammon say he
could not help it. He had told the mayor about the same as he told me,
that he was in possession of the knowledge of the whole fact--how it
was got up. He went to talk to him and I left them, and I left them
while Ammon was relating his connection with the matter.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you hear the mayor tell Ammon that he should have charge of the
lower part of the city of Allegheny?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you hear him tell him to resist any person that should attempt
to arrest him?
A. No.
Q. Did not hear a conversation of that kind?
A. No; I talked to Ammon, and told him that he would be arrested; said
I, "It is only a matter of time."
Q. You told Ammon he would be arrested?
A. I told him that he would be arrested. That it was only a matter of
time. We didn't want any property destroyed, if we could prevent it.
Q. What was Ammon's reply to you when you told him he would be
arrested?
A. He said he would die before he would be arrested--that was his
determination, he said. It was a matter of life and death with the men,
and they were willing to stand out--have their terms complied with
before they would surrender.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you or any one else attempt to arrest him at any time during the
riot?
A. No; I don't think we did do anything of the kind. I was down several
times and saw them still in force there, but my object was more by
persuasion to keep them from committing any overt acts of violence,
further than to stop trains. I did not want to see any property
destroyed or any lives lost, and I knew that the best policy was to
counsel peace and keep from getting into a fight with so small a force
as we had. There were more than twenty, I suppose, to one of us, and
then, besides that, they had the sympathy of a number of the men that
were with us--probably of our police officers. It was with a good deal
of difficulty that they would even consent to go down. I had to
threaten to put them off the force, but I concluded we had better
counsel peace, and keep from getting into trouble with them by
arresting them.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you hear any of the citizens have any conversation with the men
when you were there, counseling them to hold it?
A. I did hear one of the citizens.
Q. Just state to this committee what that citizen said to Mr. Ammon?
A. That was a man by the name of Hahn. He made a remark of this kind;
says he: "The railroad men are right." That was in Ammon's presence. I
don't know whether he directed his remarks to Ammon or to me. Says he,
"The railroad operators are right, and I will give as much as I can
afford to sustain them and help them hold out."
Q. What did you say that man's name was?
A. His name is Hahn. He is a grocer.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You say he has a grocery store?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where?
A. Down in the Sixth ward of Allegheny City. That was the only remark
that I heard.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Do you know of any understanding between the railroad officials and
this man Ammon, that he should run that railroad in their interest?
A. No, sir; I was down there--I won't be too certain what morning it
was. They had taken possession of the telegraph office.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The strikers had?
A. The strikers had, and there appeared to be an arrangement to
operate. The company wanted to put one operator in, and Mr. Ross was
negotiating with a party--wanted to put in an operator to act in
concert with the others, that all telegraphic dispatches that should
come over the line might be under the supervision of the two, and the
company would select one and they the other. That what business was
done, running what little freight was allowed to come through the
telegraph wires, would not be obstructed. And Ammon made that
proposition. He got up on a barrel or bench of some kind at the
telegraph office, and to the crowd he stated what proposition was made
to them, that the railroad company wanted to put another man to operate
along with others.
Q. In concert with the other operator?
A. Yes; and says he, "This is the proposition. Now we have got the
matter in charge ourselves, and I think we are able to run it. We don't
need the assistance of the railroad company." Says he, "It is for the
men here to say whether they will accede to this proposition or not.
For my part, I think we can control it ourselves, and if the strikers
are in favor of accepting the proposition they would signify it by
saying aye." They took a vote, and there was nobody said aye, and they
took the negative, and they all cried no. He appeared to have control
of the thing, and was running it, and all he had to do was to suggest
or intimate what was desired, and they were ready to vote it.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Ammon and his party--did he accept the proposition from the railroad
officials that they should have an operator?
A. No, sir; they would not accept it. They had the matter in charge, he
said, and they would not accept it. They voted it down.
Q. Did Ammon say to this crowd, which he appeared to be a leader
of--boss of--anything about the railroad officials asking him to run
that road, take charge of it, and turn over the earnings of the
railroad--railroad officials?
A. No; not that I heard of.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You speak of a proposition made by the railroad officials. Who made
this proposition?
A. Well, it was Mr. Ross. That was their wanting to send some
dispatches along on the road. Mr. Ross was dispatcher of the road, and
they had taken possession of the railroad and telegraph office
belonging to the road, and, as I understood it, put a telegraph
operator of their own in there.
Q. Did he make this proposition of his own accord, or by the authority
of the officials of the railroad company?
A. I could not say. I just said what Ammon said. Ammon mounted a bench,
and he said the railroad company had made this proposition. Now, says
he, "We have got charge of the concern, and we are capable of running
it."
Q. Did you hear Mr. Ross make any proposition at all?
A. No, sir; It was Ammon's own statement.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did Ross have any conversation with you as chief of police in regard
the situation of things there?
A. Yes, sir. He wanted me to do all I could to keep matters quiet--keep
them from committing any overt acts of violence, if I could.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Was there any disposition on the part of these men expressed to
destroy property?
A. Well, I could not say that there was after I talked to them. The
mayor had talked to them, &c. We counseled peace, and Ammon said, says
he, "All that I am afraid of--we are going to hold the property. We
will take care of it, we will protect it." I told him he was
responsible for it. If he let it be destroyed the responsibility would
rest upon him. I wanted to reason with him, as I seen he had control of
the affairs.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Wanted him to realize the situation?
A. Realize the situation they were in, and make a more weighty
responsibility on them, for having taken it by force, if they would let
it be destroyed. I told him so. Says he, "All I am afraid of is, when
the hands stop work, they will hang around these damned doggeries and
get drunk, and come in here and create a disturbance, and lead the
thing into trouble." Says he, "If we just stopped them, I would not be
a bit afraid of any property being burned." I told them they had just
as good a right to stop doggeries as they had to stop a railroad, the
rule would work both ways. If you could take possession of one class of
property, why not take possession of the other. I talked with them, and
I concluded I would go around and notify the saloons to stop myself. I
saw it was the best we could do under the circumstances, and we did
notify them, and they obeyed and stopped until the next Monday or
Tuesday afterwards. I used a little strategy with them. I told them the
mayor had instructed me to stop them, and under the law if they did
anything to aid, abet, or encourage riot, they were responsible; that
the sale of liquor might have that tendency, and they appeared to be
cautious, and shut up their places.
Q. They shut up because you told them the mayor had ordered them; it
was not this Boss Ammon?
A. No, sir; it was not Boss Ammon, it was Mayor Phillips and me had
talked about that, and thought best to keep down riot in every form we
could, under the excited state of affairs.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did Ammon and his men who were acting in concert with them, make any
effort to compel saloons from selling whisky?
A. No, sir; I don't think he did anything at all in the matter.
Q. You say that Mr. Ammon remarked, that he could stop all this rioting
and strike by a single dispatch, if their terms were complied with. Did
he say what those terms were?
A. He was going on to state the terms at the time Mayor Phillips came
down, and the mayor arriving there he hadn't got through with his
statement. So far as his statement to me was concerned it was, that the
men that had been discharged would all be returned to their positions
again, and re-instated at the old wages, that double-headers should be
taken off--he was going on making a statement of this kind when Mayor
Phillips arrived and interrupted him. I don't know what all he would
have stated. It was a part of it, that the men should all be
re-instated that had been discharged, at their former wages, with an
assurance that they would remain, and double-headers taken off the
road.
Q. Did your force act in concert with the strikers in protecting the
property of the Fort Wayne railroad?
A. We acted under the advice of Mayor Phillips, and we acted in
concert, as a matter of course, in protecting property. We sent down
men to watch the property and to keep it from being stolen.
Q. You assisted the railroad strikers, or they did so, in protecting
the property?
A. They appeared to exercise a guard over it for one or two nights. I
guess we had taken charge of the freight trains and set a watch over
them, and then, when they gave them up we took charge of them. We sent
police down, thirty or forty police, along the road where they had run
them out to watch the property, and to keep it from being stolen and
carried away.
Q. Was it a general understanding between your police force and these
railroad men that you would assist each other in stopping any violence
or destruction of property?