By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. 202 Juniata street, Allegheny.
Q. What is your business?
A. Engineer of the Fort Wayne railroad.
Q. Were you an engineer of that road in July last?
A. I was.
Q. State, Mr. Jackson, whether you had any knowledge of any
pre-arranged plan among the railroad employés to strike?
A. I had not.
Q. Before the day of the 19th of July?
A. I had not. The first time I heard of it I came in in the evening at
nine-twenty, Friday evening. I heard that they were stopping the trains
from coming out.
Q. You came in from the west on Friday evening?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That was the first you knew anything about it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you know anything about the organization of the Trainmen's
Union?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. For what class of employés was that organized?
A. Brakesmen and firemen.
Q. Conductors?
A. Conductors.
Q. Engineers, too?
A. Engineers, I think.
Q. What was the purpose and object of that union?
A. Indeed, I could not say.
Q. Were you connected with it?
A. No, sir.
Q. Don't belong to it?
A. No, sir.
Q. Had you any talk with men that did belong to it?
A. No, sir.
Q. Were you solicited by other employés to join it?
A. Yes; I was asked to join it.
Q. What reasons did they give--what inducements did they hold out for
your joining it?
A. Indeed, I hardly know what they were.
Q. Who asked you to join it?
A. Conductors.
Q. What persons?
A. Indeed, I could not say.
Q. Conductors asked you to join it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did they say was the object of the union?
A. They did not say.
Q. Didn't they give you any object?
A. Didn't give me any information.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Did they say to you how much advantage it would be to you to join
it?
A. No, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was it secret?
A. Yes; I believe it was.
Q. You know how extensive it was?
A. No, sir; I do not.
Q. Don't you know how many lodges there were organized?
A. Lodges organized all over the country, I think.
Q. You say you knew nothing of any pre-arranged plan for a strike?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you go out again after coming in on Friday night?
A. No, sir; not until after it was settled.
Q. And remained in the city of Allegheny all the time?
A. Yes, sir; I was over Sunday afternoon.
Q. Were you over Saturday to Pittsburgh?
A. I came over Saturday about two-thirty, or near two-thirty to three
o'clock.
Q. Where did you go Friday night?
A. During the night I stayed in about two squares of home--Washington
avenue, there.
Q. With the crowd?
A. There was a crowd around there. There was not very many.
Q. What class of men--railroad employés?
A. There was very few railroad men there.
Q. What were you staying there for?
A. I thought it was best to stay there. I heard of the trouble over in
the city here, and I thought I would not come over, and that the best
place to stay was at home.
Q. You were not at home?
A. Within two squares of home.
Q. How many men were there with you?
A. I suppose the forepart of the evening there was a good many men
around there.
Q. How many would you judge?
A. I suppose maybe fifty or hundred; but they scattered away.
Q. All railroad men?
A. No, sir.
Q. What other men were there, besides railroad employés?
A. There was men that lived around there.
Q. And you remained there all night?
A. I remained there. I stayed there until about two o'clock in the
morning.
Q. What was the object of that meeting?
A. There was no meeting.
Q. About fifty of you together. Would not you call that a meeting?
A. There was only two or three of us at seven or eight o'clock.
Q. What was the purposes or the objects of the coming there?
A. The men were just waiting. They saw the fire over at Pittsburgh.
Q. Was there any fire Friday night?
A. This was Saturday night.
Q. Friday night, you said?
A. I went right home Friday night.
Q. And stayed at home?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Then it was Saturday night you spoke of the coming there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Sunday morning, where were you?
A. I did not get up at all until about ten o'clock.
Q. What time did you come over to the depot?
A. I came over about half-past two.
Q. How long did you remain at Union depot?
A. About ten or fifteen minutes.
Q. Did you come up to Twenty-fifth street?
A. No, sir.
Q. Where did you go from Union depot?
A. I came down Smithfield street, and went over the bridge to Allegheny
again.
Q. You remained with this crowd until two o'clock, that you have spoken
of?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where were you during the day on Sunday?
A. Sunday night came over to the city, between one and two o'clock on
Sunday.
Q. Go up to the ground?
A. I was over at the Union depot. I was up on the hill side.
Q. How large a crowd was engaged in burning and plundering?
A. I do not know. I could see eighteen or twenty in the crowd.
Q. Did you see any railroad men among them?
A. I did not see a railroad man.
Q. Did you know any of the men?
A. I know some of them.
Q. Who were they?
A. I thought you asked me if I knew any of the railroad men--no, I did
not know the men there.
Q. Did you know any of the men you saw there?
A. No.
Q. How long have you been working on the railroad?
A. About seventeen years.
Q. Then you knew most of the men who were working on railroads leading
out of Pittsburgh, did you not?
A. I did not know a very few of them, except on our own road.
Q. Except on the Fort Wayne road?
A. I have stopped right there.
Q. You know nothing of any pre-arranged plan among the men for a
strike?
A. No, sir; I did not.
Q. You belong to the Engineers' Brotherhood?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there anything talked of in that organization of strikes?
A. No, sir; there was not.
Q. Was there anything communicated from the Trainmen's Union to the
Engineers' Brotherhood of a strike?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. If you know anything of the origin or the cause of the strike, I
wish you to state it to us fully?
A. All I know about it, is the reduction of the wages ten per cent.
Q. That you think was the cause of it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there any order on the Fort Wayne road for running
double-headers?
A. No, sir.
Q. Then the only thing that they had to complain of on the Fort Wayne
and Chicago road, was the ten per cent. reduction, was it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. When did that take effect?
A. I think it was on the 1st of July. I could not say certain.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Was there a necessity to run double-headers on the Fort Wayne and
Chicago road, if they want to do it?
A. I do not know. I guess there is about as much necessity as there is
on the Central road, if they wanted to do it.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Are double-headers used as a general thing where there are heavy
grades?
A. Not on our road, there ain't.
Q. You have no very heavy grades on the Fort Wayne road?
A. We pull seventeen cars as our load.
Q. Don't you know, as a railroad man, that double-headers are used
generally on heavy grades, if at all?
A. I know they are used on the Pennsylvania road.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were there any other complaints or grievances by the men of that
road?
A. Indeed, I can't say that there was.
Q. Have you ever heard?
A. No, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Is there any other secret organization of railroad men, besides the
Engineers' Brotherhood, that you know of?
A. No, sir.
Q. Are you at liberty to state the object of the Engineers'
Brotherhood?
A. It is a more beneficial thing than anything else.
Q. The object of that association is not to control railroad companies,
is it?
A. No, sir.
Q. Simply for their own benefit?
A. Benefit; yes, sir.
Q. During the trouble at the outer depot, or on the Fort Wayne, did you
know of any armed force of railroad men that were prepared to protect
any trains from coming into the city of Pittsburgh that had troops on?
A. I know there was a lot of them went to get some guns. Went down to
the lower end of the yard.
Q. Railroad men?
A. I could say I did not see that. I saw a crowd about two squares off
from our house. I could see them move down the track. I understood
afterwards that was who they were.
Q. In your conversation with railroad men of the Pennsylvania Central,
did you learn what their grievances were?
A. No; not particularly.
Q. Did they not complain of double-headers?
A. Yes; I believe there was a complaint of double-headers.
Q. Anything else?
A. Indeed, I could not say that there was.
Q. On your road it was on account of reduction of wages, was it, that
they struck?
A. I think that is what it was.
Q. Are you acquainted with Bob Ammon?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you receive any orders from him?
A. No, sir.
Q. During the strike?
A. Never saw him during the strike.
Q. Did you assist the railroad men in protecting the property of the
company?
A. I did, sir.
Q. Help to guard it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Against the mob?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there any violence used to prevent the running of trains that
you know of?
A. Not as I know of.
Q. No threats made?
A. No, sir; I didn't hear any.
Q. Were you on duty during the riots--were you at work, or did you run
your engines during the troubles?
A. I would if they had wanted me to.
Q. If the company wanted you to?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you assist the strikers in running the cars down out of danger?
A. I was over at the city the afternoon they were taken out.
Q. Take any of the cars out yourself?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you run any engine during that time--from Thursday until Monday?
A. No, sir.
Q. Were you called on by the railroad officials?
A. No, sir.
Q. Or by Bob Ammon?
A. No, sir.
Q. You are still in the employment of the road?
A. Yes, sir.
At this point the committee adjourned until three o'clock, this
afternoon.
PITTSBURGH, _Saturday, February 23, 1878_.
The committee met at three o'clock, pursuant to adjournment, Mr.
Lindsey in the chair. All members present.
* * * * *
William W. Thompson, _sworn_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. Fourth ward, Pittsburgh.
Q. What is your business?
A. Attorney.
Q. State, Mr. Thompson, what knowledge you have of the riots and means
taken to suppress--I do not know the fact that you are called to prove
particularly, but go on and state it?
A. I just say this: That during the time of the riots, I was chairman
of the police committee of the city of Pittsburgh, and that on the
evening of Saturday, the 21st of July, I was up at city hall. The mayor
had called a special meeting in order to enable him to employ
additional police, and he employed the policemen round about the city
hall at that time to deliver the notices, and we had a meeting on
Sunday morning, at ten o'clock, and authorized the mayor to employ as
many additional policemen as he deemed necessary for the emergency.
That was all that the police committee had authority to stop.
Q. What time was that meeting?
A. On Sunday, the 22d of July, at ten o'clock.
Q. You then authorized him to employ as many police as he deemed
necessary?
A. Yes; for the emergency that was all we could do. Afterwards that
evening I was at city hall, and Colonel Howard--I do not remember the
number of his regiment--
Q. The Nineteenth, I believe?
A. I think it was the Nineteenth--asked me to call a meeting of the
councils. At that time, on account of the absence of Negley, I was
president of common council, and at his instance I called a meeting of
the common council, and also issued a call, in the name of Mr. Aiken,
president of the select council, for a meeting of the select council
the next morning at ten o'clock, for the meeting to authorize the
payment of any expenses that might be necessary for the purpose of
suppressing the riot. We had a meeting next morning, at ten o'clock,
and authorized the payment of whatever expenses were necessary for that
purpose.
Q. Did the mayor increase his police force after that, to your
knowledge?
A. I know before that time the policemen had been reduced, on account
of want of appropriation--had been reduced one half--and he sent out
notices for all the discharged policemen to come in and be sworn in as
additional policemen. That was Saturday, and on Sunday morning there
were some of them there, but not many of them. There were a good many
of the police refused to serve on account of being employed for an
emergency. They said if they were to be employed for the balance of the
year they would serve, but if they were to be employed for a few days,
to go into this fight, they would not act. That evening--that Sunday
evening--there were several residents down in the Fourth ward, in the
neighborhood of the Duquesne depot, employed a force to guard the
Duquesne depot there that night. It was said there was going to be an
attack on it, and they had a guard around it to protect it that
night--to prevent the rioters from setting it on fire. There were two
men arrested for making an attempt to burn it. I believe they were
tried and convicted afterwards for attempted arson.
Q. Was there any disposition on the part of either branch to employ all
the force required in the city to suppress the riot?
A. That whole matter rested with the police committee, and the vote of
the police committee was unanimous authorizing the mayor to employ as
many men as he deemed necessary. There was no opposition. We held a
joint session Monday morning for the purpose of authorizing the payment
of all expenses necessary for that purpose. My recollection for that
purpose has been paid without any objection that I know of.
* * * * *
E. P. Jones, _sworn_:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. In the Thirteenth ward, Pittsburgh.
Q. What is your business?
A. Attorney.
Q. I do not know the fact you are called upon to prove, but if you will
just go on and state it----
A. I hardly know myself. I saw a good deal of the riot, but I think
some one mentioned to me that it was with reference to the
circumstances that I saw Saturday night. I rode past the round-house
between nine and ten o'clock, on Saturday night.
Q. What time?
A. Between nine and ten o'clock. When I got to the round-house, and was
just passing it, there was a two horse carriage drove up. It stopped,
or was stopped, just when I was there, and they had something in the
carriage that they delivered to the crowd, taking the articles from
under the seats, and as soon as they delivered them to the crowd, the
whole crowd burst in one applause and hurrah. I presume, too, without
knowing the fact--I did not see the articles--but I thought they were
ammunition and arms. I went on, after that. There was a great crowd of
people there, and I rode by way of Liberty street from that point down
to the depot. Every avenue leading on Liberty street, and to the
round-house, were crowded with people going that way. They were all in
a great hurry.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You did not see what was in the carriage?
A. No; I could not say that I saw the articles, positively. I happened
to mention that circumstance, and some one----
Q. Did you hear in the crowd anything expressive of what it was?
A. Nothing but applause. They received whatever there was there, with
great applause and excitement. I saw the burning on Sunday.
Q. Do you know who drove the carriage?
A. No, sir; the driver was sitting up in one of those high sitting
carriages--a two horse carriage. It stopped right at the round-house,
in the midst of the crowd, and the articles, whatever they were, were
delivered.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you know the carriage?
A. No, sir; it appeared to be a hired carriage. I am satisfied of that.