By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You are sure they didn't say not to fire, and you only heard the
word "fire?"
A. I am sure of the parties I speak of.
Q. That they were not cautioning their men not to fire on the crowd?
A. No, sir; I am sure of that.
Q. Couldn't you have made a mistake, and only heard the last word?
A. Not from the position I was. The parties may have been mistaken in
regard to where they got their order.
Q. When they were ordered to charge bayonets, what was the command
given to charge bayonets?
A. As I spoke before, the command was given, that I could hear the
command but couldn't hear what was said to the troops. It was given to
two companies in a low tone of voice, but what I understood to be
"charge bayonets," and a charge bayonets was immediately made after
this order. It was in a low tone of voice.
Q. Not as a military officer ought to give a command?
A. Not as I would suppose a military officer should give a command. I
am not posted in regard to how they should give it.
Q. He didn't say it as though he meant business?
A. It looked very much like it.
Q. He gave it in a low tone of voice?
A. Just gave it in a low tone of voice to those two companies--it was a
command to those two companies.
Q. When he gave the command fire, did he speak it distinctly as though
he meant exactly what he said?
A. Who are you speaking of?
Q. The officers that gave the command?
A. Yes; they spoke it distinctly.
Q. As though they meant exactly what they said?
A. I supposed from that they meant it, that is the reason I got out of
the road. I thought they meant what they said.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What position did those officers occupy when this command to fire
was given. The officers I speak of giving the word "fire?"
A. They were in front of the command.
Q. In front of the rank?
A. In front of the rank. There was no room for them in place else.
Q. You are sure they were in front of the rank?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Seven or eight of them, you say?
A. If you will allow me to explain about the officers. Six, seven, or
eight. There was two ranks of troops, stretching from the switch at
Twenty-eighth street down the track in two ranks, and those two
companies were at the upper end. What I supposed to be the general
officers were in the rear of those two officers, and the other officers
were scattered down along. There was two lines. There was seven or
eight not scattered along, because they were over near to what I
considered to be the generals.
Q. They were in front of the rank?
A. The line was facing this way. [Illustrating.] There was no officers
outside of this rank [indicating] that I could see, and there was no
room in this rank, because here is a truck--a coal truck. I stood from
where I could stoop down and touch the soldiers.
Q. Wouldn't you suppose this was a pretty bad place for an officer to
stand?
A. I should think it was.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. These officers stood between the mob and their men?
A. No, sir.
Q. They were behind the men?
A. What I consider the mob was at the switch at Twenty-eighth street.
That was the switch here. [Illustrating.] The Philadelphia troops were
formed in two ranks. There was the two companies coming up here,
[indicating,] one in single file, and when they got to the switch the
men stopped them. They were in single line. This company was brought up
between the two lines, forcing every person out, keeping that part of
the track clear. They succeeded until they got to this switch. When
they got to the switch one company was not successful in driving them
back.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You said the officers were in front of the men, did you mean those
men that were standing in line? The officers were in front of them, was
the ones you speak of?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. It was these officers gave the command to fire?
A. These officers I was speaking of.
Q. It was not the men that were marching up to clear the crowd--I mean
marching towards the crowd?
A. It was not those officers I heard.
Q. It was the bystanders? Those officers had nothing to do with those
companies?
A. No, sir; not with those two companies up the track--no, sir.
Q. Did the companies commanded by the officers who gave the command,
fire?
A. I didn't wait to see.
Q. You don't know that they did fire?
A. Not from my own knowledge, but from the parties wounded and killed,
I would suppose so.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. How long after the command was given did you hear the firing?
A. I got back of this house before I heard any firing.
Q. What distance was you from the crowd, where you stood, when the
command was given, when the firing began?
A. I suppose I would be a distance about forty yards, before I heard
any firing.
Q. After the command to fire was given, you retreated to the oil-house?
A. I got the oil-house between me and the Philadelphia troops.
Q. How far was that from where you stood when the command was given?
A. I think it was forty yards from where I stood on the track.
Q. How long after you got to the oil-house, did you hear the firing?
A. I could hardly tell--it was a very short time. I don't think you
could count a minute.
Q. You think you were not behind the oil-house one minute before the
firing began?
A. Until I heard the firing.
Q. You started as soon as ever you heard the command to fire?
A. Just as soon as I could get off the track. As soon as I heard the
command "fire," I commenced my way back in this crowd on the track,
just as quick as I could get off and run.
Q. About how long did it take you to get through that crowd and behind
the oil-house?
A. Didn't take me very long. I was not very long getting there, I know
that.
Q. A minute?
A. I do not think I was a minute getting off the track. I was over a
minute getting behind the oil-house.
Q. You were there not over a minute before you heard the firing?
A. I am sure of that.
Q. Do you think it was two minutes after the order to fire was given,
before the firing began?
A. I think so; yes, sir.
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. Where did these stones and missiles come from?
A. The things I saw thrown were right from back of what we call a
switch-tender's shanty. There is a little shanty we call the
switch-tender's shanty. It was parties standing back of that--I could
see it from where I was standing--most of them that were thrown.
Q. How much of a shower of stones was it?
A. There was no shower. There was not even a slight storm. It was not
what I would call a shower of stones.
Q. Only two or three stones thrown?
A. There might have been--I guess I saw six or seven. There were lumps
of mud and pieces of wood. I do not think I saw a stone. I did see
mud--that is, hard mud seemed to be taken from the side of the hill.
Q. Did you see one of those soldiers fall, in the ranks that marched
down there?
A. Yes, sir; there was one of them fell, and they picked him up, and
took him into the hospital grounds. He was sun-struck, or something of
that kind.
Q. How do you know he was sun-struck?
A. That is what some of his comrades claimed. Before they got to
Twenty-eighth street this man dropped. He seemed to be a Jew, from his
looks. The boys used the expression: "Let the damned Jew lay there."
The railroaders got water for him, and bathed him.
Q. Have you ever told anybody that you heard the firing there, and
heard the command given to fire?
A. I was a witness in the criminal court, in the murder case against
General Pearson.
Q. Have you told anybody outside that you heard the command to fire
given?
A. I believe I did.
Q. Have you told persons you heard General Pearson give the command to
fire?
A. Not in direct words.
Q. Have you not stated several times, on the street corners, to
different parties, that you heard General Pearson give the command to
fire?
A. No, sir; I do not think I ever did--not in those words.
Q. Did you ever state to anybody that you had heard the commanders of
companies give the command to fire, before stating it here?
A. I do not know. I forget exactly just what words my testimony was in
the court.
Q. I am not asking you what testimony you gave in the court. Have you
ever stated to any person before to-day, outside of the court, or
anywhere, that you heard officers of companies give the command to
fire?
A. I believe I have. Yes, sir.
Q. And you have stated that you heard General Pearson give the command
to fire?
A. Not in those words.