Mr. HOSTY. Ever since.
Mr. STERN. Ever since?
Mr. HOSTY. Correct.
Mr. STERN. Are you familiar with the Dallas area generally?
Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir.
Mr. STERN. You know the downtown locations?
Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir.
Mr. STERN. The buildings and streets?
Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir.
Mr. STERN. Can you tell us whether you were assigned to the case of Lee
Harvey Oswald?
Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir; I was.
Mr. STERN. Did you take over from Agent Fain or in some other way?
Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; I did not take over directly. When Agent Fain
retired directly from the Bureau he had closed the case. He had a case
which we call a pending inactive case on Mrs. Marina Oswald. This case
I did take over. It was in what we call a pending inactive status,
that is, nothing was to be done for a period of 6 months. Then at the
end of the 6-month period it was then turned into a pending case and I
went out and attempted to locate Mrs. Marina Oswald for the purpose of
interviewing her.
I might add that it is the practice of the FBI to interview immigrants
from behind the Iron Curtain on a selective basis, and she was so
selected to be one of these persons to be interviewed.
Mr. STERN. When was this?
Mr. HOSTY. This was March 4, 1963, when I began my inquiry as to
her present whereabouts. I determined on March 4, 1963, through the
Immigration and Naturalization Service records that she had moved
from Fort Worth to the Dallas area. She was living on a street called
Elsbeth Street in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas.
Mr. STERN. What happened in connection with the case of Lee Harvey
Oswald?
Mr. HOSTY. This case was closed at this time. It was closed.
On March 11, 1963, I made inquiry at this Elsbeth address, and
determined from the landlady, I believe her name was Mrs. Tobias, that
she had just evicted Lee and Marina Oswald from her apartment building
because of their alleged fighting and his alleged drinking. They caused
a disturbance and she had asked him to leave on March 3, 1963. She
told me they had moved a short distance away. She didn't know where.
On that same date, I was able to determine from the postal authorities
that they had changed their address to 214 Neely Street, also in the
Oak Cliff section of Dallas.
On the 14th of March, I verified that Oswalds were residing at this
address when I found the mailbox with the name of Lee and Marina Oswald
at this address, 214 Neely Street. Now, because of the alleged marital
difficulties they were having, I in my judgment decided this was not
the time to interview Mrs. Oswald, but to allow a certain cooling off
period. So I then checked Lee Oswald's file, at which time I determined
that he had a contact with the New York Daily Worker.
Mr. STERN. How did you learn that?
Mr. HOSTY. From our New York office. Our New York office sent a letter
through to the Dallas office. This was the first time I had seen this
letter.
Mr. STERN. This appeared in his file?
Mr. HOSTY. In his file; yes, sir.
Mr. STERN. Even if the case was closed, the file would continue to
accumulate?
Mr. HOSTY. That is correct, and they are periodically rechecked for
things of this nature.
I noticed it, and then because of the domestic difficulty and the
fact that I knew I would be interviewing his wife in the near future,
I requested that the case be reopened. I requested the supervisor in
Dallas to reopen the case to me.
Mr. STERN. Was that in writing or verbally?
Mr. HOSTY. Actually, it was, it would appear in writing. I did this by
sending a letter to the Bureau, to the FBI headquarters in Washington,
setting forth the information I had developed, and then on our office
copy I made a request that this case be reopened. This is a normal
procedure that we go through when we open cases, or reopen cases.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Hosty, did the letter from your New York office say
what the nature of the contact with the Daily Worker was?
Mr. HOSTY. It said he was on the mailing list, sir, of the Daily Worker.
The CHAIRMAN. On the mailing list?
Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Proceed.
Mr. HOSTY. Then, like I say, I made a judgment that it would be best
not to interview Mrs. Oswald at this time until there was a certain
cooling off of their domestic difficulty, because it is not wise to
interview a person of that type under a strain.
So I set it up that I would go back and recheck in 45 days. This was
not highly urgent at the time. We had waited a period of time, and it
wouldn't hurt to wait another 45 days. When I went back to check again
in May, the middle of May, I found out that they had moved from their
Neely Street address and had left no forwarding address.
Mr. STERN. Stop there and let's go back and cover a few details.
Mr. HOSTY. All right, sir.
Mr. STERN. Your recommendation to reopen the case of Lee Harvey Oswald
was made at the end of March 1963?
Mr. HOSTY. Right; I believe the letter would be dated March 31.
Mr. STERN. Was your recommendation accepted?
Mr. HOSTY. Yes; and it was reopened.
Mr. STERN. With respect to the pending inactive investigation of Marina
Oswald, had any work been done previous to the time when you thought
about interviewing her?
Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; in a pending inactive case it is really almost in
the same status as a closed case. We do nothing on it, and it was just
a waiting period of 6 months that we had set up.
Mr. STERN. Had that case been an active case?
Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; it never had been. It was opened as a pending
inactive case.
Mr. STERN. So that no work had been done?
Mr. HOSTY. No, sir.
Mr. STERN. Until the point in time when you were considering the
possibility of interviewing Mrs. Oswald?
Mr. HOSTY. The only work that had been done was the work which I did
in connection with the Lee Oswald case for Mr. Fain. I checked the
immigration records on Marina Oswald and got her background, just put
her background, her name, her description, her place of birth, and that
sort of thing in the file.
Mr. STERN. What is the difference administratively between a "pending
inactive" and a "closed" case?
Mr. HOSTY. In a pending inactive case, any information coming into the
office would be routed to the agent, it would not be put in the file
and be missed by the agent.
Mr. STERN. Could Lee Harvey Oswald's case have been put in a pending
inactive status rather than a closed status in 1962?
Mr. HOSTY. I wasn't involved in that. Mr. Fain was the one.
Mr. STERN. But as far as administrative procedures are concerned?
Mr. HOSTY. If they had so desired, I think they could have, yes.
Mr. STERN. There was no policy or procedure?
Mr. HOSTY. If there was some more work to be done, if they had decided
to, say, reinterview him at, say, in 6 months, they could have.
Mr. STERN. But it would have taken something of that sort?
Mr. HOSTY. Yes; it would have to be some more work to be done on the
case in the opinion of the agent.
Mr. STERN. So that pending inactive is part of pending?
Mr. HOSTY. It is sort of midway between.
Mr. STERN. Only the work you have decided to do is more remote?
Mr. HOSTY. Right.
Mr. STERN. More in the future?
Mr. HOSTY. Right.
Mr. STERN. You say that you were considering interviewing Marina Oswald?
Mr. HOSTY. Right.
Mr. STERN. Did you know that she did not speak English?
Mr. HOSTY. Yes; I knew that. In fact, I determined that when I did the
neighborhood check on the 3d of March.
Mrs. Tobias told me that she didn't speak a word of English and
couldn't communicate with anybody except her husband who spoke Russian.
Mr. STERN. I show you a report of four pages, marked "Report of James
P. Hosty, Jr."
Mr. HOSTY. Right.
Mr. STERN. Dated 9-10-63.
Mr. HOSTY. Right.
Mr. STERN. And marked for identification Commission Exhibit No. 829.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 829 for
identification.)
Mr. STERN. Can you identify that report for us?
Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir; that is my report.
Mr. STERN. Tell us how you came to prepare this report?
Mr. HOSTY. Well, as I told you earlier, in May I found that they had
left, Marina and Lee Oswald had apparently left the Dallas area.
In June, I believe it was the middle of June, we received a
communication from our New Orleans office advising that one Lee Oswald,
was apparently in New Orleans, and requested information on him. They
had had previous correspondence with the Dallas office in connection
with the Lee Oswald case, as an auxiliary office, and we are aware that
we did have a case on him. They asked if this could be the same man,
and I wrote back and told them that Lee Oswald had left the Dallas
area, and for them to attempt to verify the presence of Lee Oswald and
Marina Oswald in New Orleans.
Mr. STERN. This was at what time, Mr. Hosty?
Mr. HOSTY. This was June 17, I believe, they notified us, and by the
time I got the letter back to them within a week or 2 it would have
been the end of June, early part of July. I sent a request back that
they verify his presence in New Orleans. They then wrote back a letter
to me, within 2 or 3 weeks. It would have been in August when it came
back, that they had verified Oswald's presence in New Orleans, and that
he was working in New Orleans.
Now, this meant under our procedure that since Lee Oswald and Marina
Oswald were now located in the New Orleans division, they would take
control of the case.
Mr. STERN. Would you explain briefly for the Commission the terms
"Office of Origin" and "Auxiliary Office" and how you use those terms?
Mr. HOSTY. Office of origin is the office covering the area of the
residence of the individual under investigation. This is the office
which controls the case. Now, an auxiliary office is any other office
which has investigation in the case and assists the office of origin in
this matter.
New Orleans had earlier been an auxiliary office. Dallas had been the
office of origin. Now, the situation was reversed, because Lee Oswald
and Marina Oswald were now in New Orleans. This had been verified.
Mr. STERN. Would you just summarize the relevant dates from March 1963
through August 1963 in terms of your concern and what you found out
about his movements and your communications with the New Orleans office?
Mr. HOSTY. All right. This would be March 4 I got the address in Dallas.
March 11 I determined that they had moved from that one address to
another address in Dallas.
March 14 I verified that address. I sent the communication to the
Bureau and requested the case be reopened on March 25. I rechecked in
the middle part of May as to if they were still at that address in
Dallas and determined that they were gone.
On June 17 New Orleans contacted our office, and advised that they had
information that the Oswalds were in New Orleans. Early July I wrote to
New Orleans and requested that they verify this information and let me
know. Early August they did so verify it.
Mr. STERN. If you will look at page 2 of the report we have marked for
identification No. 829----
Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir.
Mr. STERN. The last paragraph on that page relates--well, tell us what
information that refers to.
Mr. HOSTY. It says, "On April 21, 1963, Dallas confidential informant
T-2 advised that Lee H. Oswald of Dallas, Tex., was in contact with the
Fair Play for Cuba Committee in New York City at which time he advised
that he passed out pamphlets for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee.
According to T-2, Oswald had a placard around his neck reading, 'Hands
Off Cuba, Viva Fidel.'"
Mr. STERN. Did you attempt to verify that information?
Mr. HOSTY. When I got it, it was approximately 6 or 7 weeks old, past
the date it allegedly took place, and we had received no information
to the effect that anyone had been in the downtown streets of Dallas
or anywhere in Dallas with a sign around their neck saying "Hands Off
Cuba, Viva Fidel." It appeared highly unlikely to me that such an
occurrence could have happened in Dallas without having been brought to
our attention. So by the time I got it, it was, you might say, stale
information and we did not attempt to verify it.
Mr. STERN. When you record this as something that an informant advised
about on April 21, that doesn't mean he advised you or the Dallas
office on April 21?
Mr. HOSTY. That is right.
Mr. STERN. Did this information come from another part of the FBI?
Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir; it came from the New York office of the FBI. They
were advised on the 21st of April.
Mr. STERN. But the information didn't get to you until some time after?
Mr. HOSTY. In June, I believe.
Mr. STERN. Did you have any information apart from this that there was
an organization active in the Dallas area called, "The Fair Play for
Cuba Committee"?
Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; we had no information of any organization by that
name.
Mr. STERN. Had you at this time ever heard of such an organization?
Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir; I had.
Mr. STERN. In what connection?
Mr. HOSTY. The New York office had advised all offices of the FBI
to be on the alert for the possible formation of chapters of this
organization which was headquartered in New York.
Mr. STERN. Had you investigated the Dallas area in that connection?
Mr. HOSTY. We had checked our sources, I had and other agents assigned
to the internal security division had checked sources. We were on the
alert for it.
Mr. STERN. And you found what?
Mr. HOSTY. We found no evidence that there was any such organization in
Dallas.
Mr. STERN. Have you reviewed this report marked for identification No.
829, Mr. Hosty?
Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir; I have.
Mr. STERN. In connection with your preparation for testimony today?
Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir.
Mr. STERN. Is there any change you would like to make in anything set
forth in it?
Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; I wish it to stand as it reads.
Mr. STERN. Is there anything you would like to add?
Mr. HOSTY. No, sir.
Mr. STERN. Amplify?
Mr. HOSTY. No, sir.
Mr. STERN. The letters "RUC" appear on the first page after the
synopsis.
Mr. HOSTY. Right.
Mr. STERN. What do they mean?
Mr. HOSTY. That stands for "Referred Upon Completion" to the office of
origin.
Mr. STERN. What does that indicate?
Mr. HOSTY. This indicates that as an auxiliary office we have now
completed our investigation.
Mr. STERN. When did Dallas become an auxiliary office in connection
with this case?
Mr. HOSTY. It became an auxiliary office upon the submission of the
proper forms to the New Orleans office in which I designated them as
office of origin. They had verified the residence and employment of Lee
Oswald in their city, so upon sending this report and the form they
automatically became office of origin.
Representative FORD. Who makes that determination, Mr. Hosty?
Mr. HOSTY. Well, sir; actually it is made by the person who resides in
their area, sir. When they reside in their area and work in their area
they automatically become office of origin.
The old office of origin sends a form to the new office and advises
them, "You are now office of origin." Of course the Bureau gets a copy
of that.
Representative FORD. Do you actually move the files or do they get
duplicates?
Mr. HOSTY. No, sir. What we do is we review our files and see what
communications in the file they do not have copies of. Then they are
then sent the copies of any communications they don't have, so that
they have a complete file. There is nothing that they don't have.
Representative FORD. You don't actually transfer anything from your
office?
Mr. HOSTY. No; the file is not transferred. Individual communications
would be if they were lacking a particular communication. Now, in
this case New Orleans had previous communications. They did have some
background. It was necessary for me to give them a couple of Mr. Fain's
reports that you people have looked at earlier. I had to send those
reports to them. They hadn't gotten them.
Mr. STERN. I think it is appropriate to have this admitted at this
time, if we may, Mr. Chairman.
The CHAIRMAN. The document that has been numbered 829 may be admitted.
(The document heretofore marked Commission Exhibit No. 829 for
identification was received in evidence.)
The CHAIRMAN. I would like to ask you, Mr. Hosty, about the information
that Mrs. Tobias gave you. I am reading from it now: "Mrs. Tobias
advised they had considerable difficulty with Mr. Oswald who
apparently drank to excess and beat his wife on numerous occasions.
They had numerous complaints from the other tenants due to Oswald's
drinking and beating his wife."
Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. Did you investigate that to see if that was true.
Mr. HOSTY. No, sir; I took her word for it. There was no reason for
me to press it any farther. She had apparently looked into it and had
evicted them on the basis of her feelings. I was just reporting what
she had done.
Mr. STERN. Had you had any part of the investigation of the case of Lee
Harvey Oswald before the time covered by the report?
Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir; I had.
On the 12th of July 1962 on request of former Agent John Fain, I
checked the records of the Immigration and Naturalization Service in
Dallas, and got the background information on Marina Oswald, the wife
of Lee Oswald. I incorporated it into a memorandum.
Mr. STERN. I show you Commission Exhibit No. 824 which has previously
been admitted. Can you identify any part of that?
Mr. HOSTY. Yes, sir; starting in the details here, when it says "At
Dallas the following investigation was conducted by S. A. James P.
Hosty, Jr.," this is a direct copy of my memorandum which I prepared
for Agent Fain down to and including all of page 2.