Mr. STERN. At the end of the synopsis on the first page are the letters
"RUC." Can you tell us what that means?
Mr. FAIN. That is a symbol to save typing and stenographic effort
and so forth. It is known to all agents, and it means "Referred Upon
Completion," "RUC," "Referred Upon Completion," to the office of origin
actually. In other words, it indicates that the investigation there
at that point where it was conducted has been completed and we are
referring it back.
Mr. STERN. To an office which had prime responsibility?
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; in this case I suppose it was the Bureau in
Washington. I see the Bureau file number up there at the top.
Mr. STERN. I see. Do you recall, Mr. Fain, how you were assigned
to investigate this matter which is entitled in this report "Funds
Transmitted to Resident of Russia"?
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir.
We received a communication, or rather the Dallas office did, from
Bureau to the effect that there was an indication that application had
been made by Mrs. Oswald, Marguerite C. Oswald, for a draft, purchase
transfer of funds, to be sent to Lee Harvey Oswald over in Russia, and
I was given the assignment to contact her and find out all I could
about the circumstances.
Mr. STERN. Concerning the transfer of funds?
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; you will notice that the title in this case is
"Funds Transmitted to Residents of Russia," that was the type of
inquiry.
Mr. STERN. To your recollection, had you ever before this time heard
the name "Lee Harvey Oswald" or any other member of the Oswald family?
Mr. FAIN. Well, I believe--let's see, April 27, 1960, I talked to
Robert Lee in an effort to locate his mother.
Mr. STERN. By this time, Mr. Fain, I mean the time covered by your
report, not the date of the report.
Mr. FAIN. Just what I read in the newspapers about his having gone over
into Russia. The papers played it up.
Mr. STERN. Did you have any official responsibility in connection with
Lee Harvey Oswald before the time covered by this report?
Mr. FAIN. No, sir; no, I did not.
Mr. STERN. On page 2 of the report--is this a record of an interview
that you held, Mr. Fain?
Mr. FAIN. It is. It is a record of the interview that I conducted.
Mr. STERN. Is this a form normally used for reporting interviews?
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. STERN. What is your practice or what was your practice, while an
FBI agent, in making interviews? Would you make notes of the interview
as you interviewed a subject?
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. STERN. Are you familiar with any shorthand method?
Mr. FAIN. I had a course in shorthand and, of course, still know some
of the symbols and, at that time, did use it, mixed it up with my other
English as I wrote it. I did use it.
Mr. STERN. Can you tell from this report when you made the interview?
Mr. FAIN. I interviewed Robert Lee Oswald, who was the brother, older
brother, of Lee Harvey Oswald, the subject of this case, on April 27,
1960, at Fort Worth, Tex.
Mr. STERN. Can you tell the Commission where that appears from your
report?
Mr. FAIN. The date of the interview?
(At this point in the proceedings, Representative Ford entered the
hearing room.)
Mr. STERN. Yes.
Mr. FAIN. The date of the interview is located on the lower left-hand
corner, and also the place of the interview.
Mr. STERN. When did you transcribe--or, first, how would you do that
normally?
Mr. FAIN. Well, I dictated this on May 2, 1960. It evidently was
transcribed by the stenographer, as noted, on the upper right-hand
corner--this is a little dim--but it looks like May 6, 1960. This is a
very old copy.
Mr. STERN. You would dictate this to a secretary, Mr. Fain?
Mr. FAIN. Some of it I dictated on the dictaphone, some of it I would
do by rough draft and send by mail to Dallas, and if I happened to be
in Dallas, I would dictate to the stenographer.
Mr. STERN. Would you ordinarily preserve your rough notes of the
interview after you dictated your report?
Mr. FAIN. Not after it gets in this form, because this contains all the
information in the notes we have. In other words, we put everything
right in. Now this is supposed to be an exact transcript of the
information. It is not a recording of the information. I don't mean to
leave that impression.
Mr. STERN. And you would normally destroy your notes?
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; unless there was some--there would be no reason
to keep my notes, once I put all the information I was assured was in
here. Once that is true I destroyed them.
Mr. STERN. I think these reports largely speak for themselves, Mr.
Fain, but I would like to ask you a few details to clarify statements
in the report.
On page 3 in the report of your interview of Mrs. Marguerite Oswald,
you say in the second line, "She volunteered for interview." What does
that mean in this connection?
Mr. FAIN. You will notice that on the lower left-hand corner it
indicates I talked to her on the 28th, April 28, which was the day
after I talked to her son Robert Lee, and evidently he had gotten in
touch with her on the same afternoon that I talked to him or that
night. Anyway she knocked on the door the next day and wanted to talk
to me; and she came in voluntarily. I believe Robert told me that he
would get in touch with her. He gave me her address, at least, and I
was going to send out a lead to have her interviewed down there, but
she came in to talk to me, voluntarily.
Mr. STERN. Would you look at page 4 of your report, Mr. Fain, the
fourth full paragraph from the top of the page, the paragraph that
begins, "Mrs. Oswald stated," and the last sentence of that paragraph
reads, "Mrs. Oswald stated that she would not have been surprised to
learn that Lee had gone to, say, South America or Cuba, but that it
had never entered her mind that he might go to Russia or might try to
become a citizen there." As far as you can remember, is that accurately
what she said?
Mr. FAIN. Yes; that is as she said, I put it down. She seemed very much
upset that he had gone to Russia.
Mr. STERN. Did she explain that to you?
Mr. FAIN. None other than this. In other words, she said she wouldn't
have been surprised that he had gone to, say, South America or Cuba,
she was taken aback by learning he had gone to Russia. You see, he had
told her he was going over to New Orleans to go to work over there,
and she was apparently very surprised that he had taken this boat to
Europe, to Russia.
Mr. STERN. Mr. Fain, in your report of your interview with Mrs.
Marguerite Oswald, you quote several letters and refer to other
specific bits of information. How did you get that so accurately?
Mr. FAIN. She had all of those in her purse. She had all those
clippings that had appeared in the paper, and she had quite a stack of
them there, and I got the information out of those at the time.
Mr. STERN. She displayed them to you and let you copy them?
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; she displayed them to me, that is right.
The CHAIRMAN. Gentlemen, are there any other questions any of you would
like to ask Mr. Fain? He has stated that everything he knows concerning
this matter is contained in his written report.
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; that is correct.
Representative FORD. May I ask a question?
The CHAIRMAN. Yes, indeed.
Representative FORD. Is it the practice of the Bureau to check with
relatives of those who defect or make an attempt to defect to the
Soviet Union?
Mr. FAIN. Well, I was--my primary motive here was--trying to locate
her. I wanted to talk to her. If I had been able to talk to her, the
mother, I probably wouldn't have contacted Robert. But he was the only
one that I could locate there that knew anything about it, about where
she might be, so I, in the course of things, interviewed him to try to
find out what I could find out from him.
Representative FORD. I am more concerned about the overall policy.
Whenever an individual makes an attempt to defect or does defect, is
it the policy of the FBI to subsequently interview relatives of the
individual who tried or did defect?
Mr. FAIN. Mr. Ford, I am unable to answer that because I am not versed
in overall policy, and I am sorry. I am not trying to avoid your
question, but I just actually don't know.
Representative FORM. What prompted you then in your capacity to
interview----
Mr. FAIN. Robert?
Representative FORD. Either Robert or Mrs. Oswald?
Mr. FAIN. Well, I was instructed to get in touch with her and find out
what the situation was. The only way I could get the information was to
talk to her, and I talked to Robert only in connection with my attempts
to locate her.
Representative FORD. But your instructions came from whom?
Mr. FAIN. I don't have the memorandum or communication that came in
here in connection with this, but it came from the Bureau, I am sure,
through the Dallas office.
Representative FORD. And you were working out of Dallas?
Mr. FAIN. Right. My supervisor over in Dallas, no doubt, either called
me or else very likely he wrote an assignment and mailed it to me in
Fort Worth.
Representative FORD. Your assignment was really to check with the
mother, both, or all?
Mr. FAIN. Actually, I don't recall how the assignment was worded, I
really don't. I haven't seen it for over a year and a half, and I just
don't recall exactly how that came.
Representative FORD. But the only reason for such an interview was the
fact that the son had gone to Russia and either defected or attempted
to do so; was that the basis of the investigation?
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir. We wanted to find out the circumstances and about
these funds and any information we could ascertain and, of course, it
is always important in this type of case to find out whether or not
any of these--especially intelligence agents or anyone like that might
contact these people and try to get information from them. We try to
get these people to let us know if anything like that happens.
Representative FORD. That was really the purpose of the interview or
investigation you conducted?
Mr. FAIN. Let me see if I can find out. In this paragraph 4 there is an
indication----
Representative FORD. Paragraph 4 on what page?
Mr. FAIN. Paragraph 4 on page 2. "He stated he had no contact in any
manner or form with any individual known to him to be a Soviet official
or affiliated in any way with Soviet establishments. He also advised
that as far as he knows neither his mother or other members of his
family had had any contact whatsoever with Soviet officials or with
Soviet establishments."
I explained to him the jurisdiction of the FBI, that the FBI had
jurisdiction in internal security matters in the United States, and
Robert told me that he would immediately contact the FBI in the event
he was contacted by Soviet officials. Then I also asked him, as is
contained in that final paragraph on the same page, "Oswald stated
that neither he nor his mother as far as he knew had been requested
to furnish any items of personal identification to Lee Oswald in
Russia. He said he would immediately contact the FBI in the event any
information like that came to his attention."
Representative FORD. These were the only interviews you had with either
one of them?
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; at that time, yes, sir.
Senator COOPER. Can I ask a question?
Mr. McCLOY. Did you have one at any other time?
Mr. FAIN. These were the first interviews. We will get to those later.
Do you want to go into those?
Mr. McCLOY. Never mind. We will get to those in due course. But wasn't
the touch-off on this investigation the fact that a transfer order
or an attempted remittance was being sent to Oswald in Russia by his
mother?
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. McCLOY. That was the thing that prompted the inquiry, wasn't it?
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; that is right.
The CHAIRMAN. Senator.
Senator COOPER. Yes.
Did Mrs. Oswald give you any reason for her statement she would not
have been surprised if Lee Oswald had gone to Cuba or some South
American country? Did she explain that statement?
Mr. FAIN. No; she didn't. She just--of course, she was all upset and
bothered by his having gone to Russia, and she expressed great surprise
that he had gone to Russia, and she said just casually or during the
course of the conversation she wouldn't have been surprised for him to
have gone, say, to South America or to Cuba, but to go to Russia, she
was totally surprised and taken aback.
Senator COOPER. She didn't give you any reason why she would not have
been surprised----
Mr. FAIN. No; she didn't go into that.
Senator COOPER. Whether he had said anything about Cuba or South
America.
The CHAIRMAN. All right, Mr. Fain. Do you have other questions?
Mr. STERN. I have other questions for him. I thought we might break it
up in the order of his reports.
The CHAIRMAN. Go right ahead.
Mr. STERN. One last question at this stage, Mr. Fain: Did Mrs. Oswald
indicate to you in any way that she thought Lee Harvey Oswald had gone
to Russia in any capacity other than as a private citizen?
Mr. FAIN. No; she did not. She apparently didn't know why he had gone
at all. She was surprised he had gone in the first place.
Mr. STERN. She did not suggest in any way that he might have been an
agent of the United States or serving United States interests in Russia?
Mr. FAIN. I think she did remark something about she believed he was a
secret agent. Maybe she was clutching at anything----
Mr. STERN. She did? Is that covered in that report?
Mr. FAIN. In one of these reports I believe it is.
Mr. STERN. I am talking about this one, as of this time.
Mr. FAIN. No; I believe that came in something else. She told evidently
the State Department in Washington, D.C.
Mr. STERN. Yes.
Mr. FAIN. That is where that came from.
Mr. STERN. I am asking whether she suggested this to you at the time of
your interview of Mrs. Oswald on April 28, 1960.
Mr. FAIN. No; I don't recall anything of that. I have confused that.
Mr. STERN. Mr. Chairman, may we have the report admitted into evidence?
The CHAIRMAN. It may be and it will take the next number.
Mr. STERN. That was marked for identification 821.
The CHAIRMAN. All right. No. 821 may be admitted.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 821 for
identification, and received in evidence.)
Mr. STERN. Mr. Fain, I show you a report of 11 pages dated July 3,
1961, entitled "Lee Harvey Oswald." Can you identify this report for
us, and we will number it for identification No. 822.
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; this is my report. It is dated July 3 of 1961.
Mr. STERN. Have you reviewed this report recently in preparation for
your testimony today?
Mr. FAIN. I have.
Mr. STERN. Is the report complete in all respects of the subject matter
it covers?
Mr. FAIN. Yes; it is.
Mr. STERN. Is it accurate in all respects of the subject matter it
covers?
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. STERN. Is there any addition or correction you would like to make
to the report as it stands now?
Mr. FAIN. No, sir.
Mr. STERN. The report shows on the cover page, Mr. Fain, that a copy
was sent to the Office of Naval Intelligence in New Orleans, La. Can
you tell us why that was done?
Mr. FAIN. Well, this investigation at this time was under internal
security category R, and you will notice that predicated on information
received by a communication of January 11, 1961, from District
Intelligence Office, Naval District, New Orleans, La., advising that
Oswald, who had attempted to defect in Russia in October 1959, and
who was a member of the U.S. Marine Corps Reserve had been given an
undesirable discharge from the U.S. Marine Corps Reserve on August 17,
1960.
Mr. STERN. When you say the investigation was predicated on this
information, what precisely do you mean?
Mr. FAIN. That was the reason that this report was initiated from that
incoming communication from New Orleans.
Mr. STERN. And how did this information come to you? Was it sent to you
directly, if you know, from the New Orleans Naval District or did it
come from FBI----
Mr. FAIN. It would have come through Dallas, the headquarters division
office in Dallas.
Mr. STERN. But so far as you know was it sent from New Orleans to
Dallas or from New Orleans to FBI headquarters in Washington and then
disseminated to Dallas?
Mr. FAIN. I expect it came directly to the Dallas office. It could have
been, the office there might have gotten a copy of it, might have
gotten the original, and this might have been a copy. I just don't
recall.
Mr. STERN. Were you instructed to make this investigation or did you
initiate it yourself on the strength of this information from the naval
district in New Orleans?
Mr. FAIN. There again I believe that the supervisor in Dallas asked
that this case be--or did reopen it and asked for a background
investigation. It looks like this is a background type of investigation
on the individual Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr. STERN. When you say "reopen," Mr. Fain, does that mean there was a
case opened previously on Lee Oswald?
Mr. FAIN. No; I used the wrong term. I confused it with this report.
This looks a different type of investigation, this "Funds Transmitted
to Residents of Russia."
Mr. STERN. That was not an investigation of Lee Harvey Oswald as such?
Mr. FAIN. That is right.
Mr. STERN. This was actually the first report concerning the individual?
Mr. FAIN. That is correct.
Mr. STERN. So that did this represent the opening of a case on Lee
Harvey Oswald, Mr. Fain?
Mr. FAIN. Yes; it did.
Mr. STERN. And as far as you know, there was no earlier investigation
of Lee Harvey Oswald as such; is that correct?
Mr. FAIN. I believe that is correct.
Mr. STERN. I am just asking you of your own knowledge.
Mr. FAIN. That is right.
Mr. STERN. You say this was a background investigation. What do you
mean by that, Mr. Fain?
Mr. FAIN. Well, we always ascertain his correct name and aliases, and
residences, where he previously lived, his employment, his citizenship
status, his nationality background, his education, his military record,
whether or not he had any relatives, close relatives, in the Armed
Forces; and we get a physical description of him, identification
record, and where possible we always get a photograph; and his mother
furnished a copy of the photograph to us on April 28, 1960.
Mr. STERN. On the first page of the report, the initial "C" appears
after the synopsis. What does that mean, Mr. Fain?
Mr. FAIN. That means closed.
Mr. STERN. What does that indicate to you in terms of the investigation?
Mr. FAIN. Well, it indicated that we obtained the information
concerning this person, to identify him, as to who he was, something
about him, about his background; it appearing there was no further need
for investigation at that time, we closed the case.
Mr. STERN. Your report indicates at page 8 that the files of the office
of naval intelligence in Louisiana were checked. Was that done at your
request, if you recall? Did you check those files?
Mr. FAIN. I did not. That would have been checked in the New Orleans
division.
Mr. STERN. Would this have been done at your request or on the
instructions of someone else?
Mr. FAIN. I am of the opinion that that information probably came along
with the other information or subsequent to the other information on
which this case was predicated. I don't recall asking them to make any
check like that.
Mr. STERN. The first paragraph on page 1 reads a little differently. It
says, "Information received by communication from the Naval District,"
and on page 8 you refer to a check of the files of Naval Intelligence.
Mr. FAIN. It sounds like a check was made, and they had made some
information available to us, and I incorporated it in this report.
Mr. STERN. "They" is--who do you mean by "they"?
Mr. FAIN. The New Orleans Division of the FBI.
Mr. STERN. Of the FBI?
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. STERN. But the first indication on page 1, when you refer to
information received by communication from the District Intelligence
Office, does that seem to indicate a check was made by the FBI office
in New Orleans or this information was delivered by the Office of Naval
Intelligence voluntarily, without request?
Mr. FAIN. I don't recall ever dictating a request. It could have
happened, but you must remember it has been over a year and a half
since I referred to these things. And----
Mr. STERN. Sure.
Mr. FAIN. That just sounds like it is a communication we received from
there, and that we opened the case based on that information. That
would be my opinion now.
Mr. STERN. But you don't know why they would have been sending you that
information?
Mr. FAIN. That can be ascertained.
Mr. STERN. Yes. We, perhaps, can find out from other witnesses if you
don't remember, and if you don't know, just tell us that.
Mr. FAIN. I do not know; I don't recall that.
Mr. STERN. All right. On page 10, the top paragraph, in reference to a
review of the files of the passport office of the Department of State,
again do you recall whether this was done at your request by someone
else?
Mr. FAIN. No, sir; I do not. It could have been requested by letter out
of the Dallas office or it might have been that it was made up here at
seat of Government.
Mr. STERN. But in any event did you check these files at the State
Department?
Mr. FAIN. I did not.
Mr. STERN. The passport office?
Mr. FAIN. No. My investigative jurisdiction was the Fort Worth area and
vicinity.
Mr. STERN. Again would you summarize your recollection of the purpose
and direction of the investigation at this stage, at the time covered
by this report. What do you recall to have been the purpose and
direction of the investigation?
Mr. FAIN. At this particular point it seems we were looking at this
individual, opened the case to find out who he was and see if he was
any kind of an internal threat, a threat to the internal security of
our country.
Mr. STERN. What was your evaluation of that question as a result of
your investigation?
Mr. FAIN. At that time we--there was nothing appearing that he was
of any potential danger to the security of--I was trying to find out
whether or not, you will notice on page 9 there the last paragraph,
to see whether or not he was a member of the Communist Party in Fort
Worth, and my check of our confidential sources showed that there
was no knowledge available, no information available, that he was a
member of the Communist Party. That was supposed primarily my immediate
objective, to find out whether or not he was connected with the
Communist Party there in Fort Worth, in addition to the developing of
the background information on him.
Mr. STERN. And this entered into your evaluation at the time, the fact
that he was not a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; there was no indication that he was a member of the
Communist Party in Fort Worth.
Mr. STERN. Was it also relevant to your evaluation that he was
apparently living in Russia at the time?
Mr. FAIN. I beg your pardon?
Mr. STERN. Was it also relevant to your conclusion about his not being
a threat to the internal security of the United States that at the time
he was apparently living in Russia, at the time covered by this report?
Mr. FAIN. Well, certainly we were going to keep track of him from then
on, naturally, if he is over there.
The CHAIRMAN. Gentlemen, any questions? Mr. McCloy.
Mr. McCLOY. On the top of page 10, Mr. Chief Justice, this report
refers to the review on May 9, 1961, of the files of the passport
office. Who did make that review if you didn't make it?
Mr. FAIN. Someone, some employee of the FBI here at the seat of
Government.
Mr. McCLOY. How did you know it was made?
Mr. FAIN. How did I know it was made?
Mr. McCLOY. Yes.
Mr. FAIN. The communication concerning the results of the check were
sent by mail back to Dallas, and then my supervisor sent it to me at
Fort Worth.
Mr. McCLOY. That is how it came to be embodied in your report?
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; and I covered it in my report.
Mr. McCLOY. I see. Have we got a copy of that? Do we have that review,
the report of that review?
Mr. STERN. We will receive testimony concerning it from the Assistant
to the Director of the Bureau.
Mr. McCLOY. Will we be able to examine the person who examined Mrs.
Oswald and to whom apparently she said that she thought he was a secret
agent, that Oswald was a secret agent?
Mr. STERN. I am sure we can arrange that. That would have been someone
in the State Department.
Mr. McCLOY. That is right. But you don't know anything except what is
stated in the report here?
Mr. FAIN. That is correct, as a result of a communication from this
office to Dallas.
Mr. McCLOY. No further reasons that you recall in that report as to why
she thought he was a secret agent or he might have been a secret agent?
Mr. FAIN. No, sir; I am sure I copied it from that report just like it
was there. She expressed the thought that, perhaps, her son had gone to
the Soviet Union as a secret agent, and the State Department was not
doing enough to help him.
Mr. McCLOY. All right.
The CHAIRMAN. Congressman Ford.
Representative FORD. No questions.
The CHAIRMAN. Senator Cooper.
Senator COOPER. Again I ask you, on page 6, the second paragraph, it
states, "Mrs. Oswald also stated the subject had mentioned something
about his desire to travel and said something also about the fact that
he might go to Cuba." Do you remember whether or not she talked to you
about that?
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; that was the information that she gave me on April
28. If you will notice from the first paragraph on April 28, 1960,
Mrs. Marguerite Oswald stated that was a repeat, in other words, of
the information that actually was contained in this first report we
mentioned a while ago.
Senator COOPER. On page 8 she stated she had not been requested to
furnish any items of personal identification of the subject in Russia.
What is meant by that "personal identification"?
Mr. FAIN. Well, in these espionage cases we wanted to be sure that
they hadn't been contacted by the Soviet intelligence agencies for any
purpose or any reason at all. We didn't know whether maybe he went
over there and maybe they had gotten in touch with his parents or his
relatives and demanded any information about him to verify who he was,
and so forth.
Mr. McCLOY. Could you remember the photograph that Mrs. Oswald
presented to you of Lee Oswald?
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; I don't remember the details right now, but I
believe it was a photograph of him in the service.
Mr. McCLOY. So far as you can recollect it was in uniform?
Mr. FAIN. I just don't recall the facts.
Mr. McCLOY. You don't recall that he was carrying any weapons?
Mr. FAIN. He was not. I am sure he was not carrying any weapons. I
don't believe, I am certain--I don't believe--he was in uniform at all.
I think it was a picture of him. The picture, as I recall it, was not a
recent picture. It was 3 or 4 years old.
Mr. McCLOY. All right.
(At this point in the proceedings, Senator Cooper leaves the hearing
room.)
The CHAIRMAN. Very well, Mr. Stern, you may continue with the next
item.
Mr. STERN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. May we admit Exhibit 822 for
identification at this time?
The CHAIRMAN. It may be admitted under that number.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 822 for
identification and received in evidence.)
Mr. STERN. Mr. Fain, I show you Commission Exhibit No. 823 for
identification, a report of 15 pages dated July 10, 1962. Can you
identify this report for the Commission?
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; this is my report dated July 10, 1962.
Mr. STERN. Have you reviewed this report in preparation for your
testimony today?
Mr. FAIN. I have.
Mr. STERN. Is it correct in all respects concerning the material
covered?
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. STERN. Is there anything you would like to add to any of the data
set forth there?
Mr. FAIN. No, sir; I believe not.
Mr. STERN. It carries on page 1 after the synopsis the symbol "P." What
does that mean, Mr. Fain?
Mr. FAIN. Pending, a pending case.
Mr. STERN. Now, the case was closed, I believe you told us, as of the
time of your last report which was Commission No. 822. Can you tell
us how this report, this Exhibit 823 for identification, came to be
prepared, and how the investigation reflected in this report came to be
held?
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; there began to appear various items of information
that this subject, Lee Oswald, was preparing or was desiring to come
back to the United States, and----
Mr. STERN. How did you learn this, Mr. Fain?
Mr. FAIN. Well, the various communications which I received or
which our office there received, and various checks that the State
Department----
Mr. STERN. Excuse me, by your office there what do you mean, Dallas?
Mr. FAIN. The communications would come over to me from Dallas from my
supervisor.
Mr. STERN. Yes.
Mr. FAIN. And he would get the communications from the seat of
Government.
Mr. STERN. "The seat of Government" is the way you refer in the Bureau
to the Federal Bureau of Investigation?
Mr. FAIN. The Federal Bureau of Investigation or it might have come
from the Washington field office here.
Mr. STERN. So the seat of Government can mean any communication
from Washington, either from your field office here or from your
headquarters?
Mr. FAIN. That is the way I have been referring to it as seat of
Government.
Mr. STERN. I see. All right. Please continue telling us how this
investigation was carried out.
Mr. FAIN. I was given the assignment to contact his folks, Mrs. Oswald,
his mother, and----
Mr. STERN. By whom, if you recall, Mr. Fain? Was this an assignment
that came from FBI headquarters or from----
Mr. FAIN. This incidentally, this communication, we got dated September
1, 1961, from the Washington field office. You see the seat of
Government is the main headquarters, in D.C.
Then we have a field office there, Washington field office, that we
refer to as WFO, which is an office similar to the Dallas division or
the Buffalo division or other divisions, a working division that goes
out and conducts investigations in the area. I was given the assignment
to contact Mrs. Oswald, the mother, and to find out any information
that she might have. They had been cooperative, and I wanted to see
what the situation was, and especially when this boy was coming home.
We wanted to interview him and stay on top of the situation, and in
that connection I contacted Robert Lee Oswald again because she wasn't
in town, I couldn't locate her.
Mr. STERN. Where in your report is that stated?
Mr. FAIN. On page 4. He gave me her address, said she had gone to
a ranch around Vernon, Tex., in the western area and our agent at
Wichita Falls made contact with her. That is set out in the middle of
the page--the results of of the contact.
Mr. STERN. That was at what time?
Mr. FAIN. On October 13 "Mrs. Marguerite Oswald, 1808 Eagle Street,
Apartment No. 3, Vernon, Texas, advised that about 2 months previously
she had received from her son," and so forth.
Mr. STERN. It took this period of time from your interview in
September----
Mr. FAIN. September 18.
Mr. STERN. To locate Mrs. Oswald?
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir. That is about 3 weeks, isn't it?
Mr. STERN. Yes.
Mr. FAIN. I think, my recollection is, he had difficulty locating her
in that sparsely settled western country. I think he had to go to
several different towns and finally located her.
Mr. STERN. So that the interview of Mrs. Oswald reflected at the bottom
of page 4 was the interview conducted by another agent at your request;
is that right?
Mr. FAIN. That is at the request of the Dallas office, that is right.
The CHAIRMAN. May I interrupt a moment, gentlemen? I have a commitment
at the Smithsonian Institution for about 45 minutes, and so I will
be obliged to leave at this time. Congressman Ford, will you preside
during my absence, and if you should be obliged to leave for your
congressional duties, leave it in charge of Mr. McCloy to do it. I
expect to be back in three-quarters of an hour.
(At this point in the proceedings, the Chairman leaves the hearing
room.)
Representative FORD [presiding]. Will you proceed, please, Mr. Stern.
Mr. STERN. Yes, sir. Was your interview with Robert Lee Oswald at your
instance or did he volunteer?
Mr. FAIN. I located him for interview and tried to locate his mother
and, incidentally, in that connection he was very cooperative, and
I obtained all the information that he had that I could, and he
volunteered a lot of this information.
Mr. STERN. Had you previously asked him to let you know if he had
received any communication from his brother?
Mr. FAIN. I had asked him to be sure to let us know in case--I told him
we wanted to talk to him when he came back.
Mr. STERN. You told him you wanted to know when Lee Harvey Oswald was
coming back, but not whether he had any specific communication?
Mr. FAIN. We specifically wanted him to let us know if he had any
contact with Soviet intelligence agents, anything like that, anything
that he thought might not look right, to be sure and let us know.
Mr. STERN. Then on page 8 it says that "Mrs. Robert Oswald promised to
advise upon his arrival." Were you----
Mr. FAIN. That was the wife of Robert.
Mr. STERN. Yes. Did you interview Mrs. Oswald, Mrs. Robert Oswald?
Mr. FAIN. Yes, sir; yes, I did.
Mr. STERN. What was the occasion for that interview, Mr. Fain?
Mr. FAIN. Well, to be sure and have someone let us know when this boy
Lee arrived back in town.
Mr. STERN. You were willing to rely on her advice?
Mr. FAIN. We had no reason not to. They had been very cooperative, both
Mrs. Oswald and Robert Oswald. Robert is an older brother of Lee. I
think he was about 2 years older than Lee.
Mr. STERN. Did Mrs. Robert Oswald advise you voluntarily that she had
received this postcard from Lee Harvey Oswald or did this come up when
you stopped by? That is at the bottom of page 7.
Mr. FAIN. Yes; I believe she volunteered that. She had said or I might
have asked her if she had any word from Lee. I don't recall now just
how the conversation came up, but she said she had received a postal
card from him on or about May 15, and it had been dated April 10.
Mr. STERN. When did you finally learn that he had arrived in Fort
Worth, Mr. Fain?
Mr. FAIN. Let's see, that was on, it must have been, the morning of the
26th, June 26.
Mr. STERN. How did you learn this information?
Mr. FAIN. They hadn't let me know, and I began to think it was time for
checking on this thing.