Mr. COLE. Yes; it is----

Mr. EISENBERG. Excuse me, making provision for the chapter president's

signature?

Mr. COLE. Yes; there is barely enough showing to indicate that there

was a line of writing there at one time.

Mr. EISENBERG. Could you tell whether it was the same as the signature

"A. J. Hidell"?

Mr. COLE. It conforms generally to the signature "A. J. Hidell," that

is, the form shown by the photograph, Exhibit 819.

Mr. EISENBERG. Have you taken a photograph of 819?

Mr. COLE. Yes, sir; I am sorry, sir; I do not have that photograph with

me.

Mr. EISENBERG. All right.

Do you want to take a look at this, Mr. McCloy?

Did you compare the signatures "Lee Oswald" and "A. J. Hidell" on

819 to determine whether they had been written by the author of the

standards?

Mr. COLE. Yes, sir; may I look at that photograph? Yes, sir; I did.

Mr. EISENBERG. What was your conclusion as to the signature of Lee H.

Oswald?

Mr. COLE. It is my opinion that the author of the standard writing is

the author of the signature "Lee H. Oswald" on Exhibit 819.

Mr. EISENBERG. What was your conclusion as to the signature "A. J.

Hidell"?

Mr. COLE. I find no basis in the standard writing for identification of

the author of such standard writing as the author of the name "A. J.

Hidell" as shown by 819.

Mr. EISENBERG. Do you think that the author of the standard writing

might have produced that signature in a disguised hand?

Mr. COLE. I think that is highly improbable, because this does

not appear to be a disguised hand. It looks like a fairly natural

handwriting.

Mr. EISENBERG. And that is based upon the items which you enumerated

earlier which indicated the presence of a natural handwriting, such as

speed and so forth?

Mr. COLE. Yes.

Mr. EISENBERG. Do you think that, apart from the naturalness of the

writing, the signature "A. J. Hidell" was within Oswald's abilities as

a penman?

Mr. COLE. It appears to be somewhat beyond his ability. I would say

taking into account his general level of writing skill as shown by the

standards, I would say this represents a somewhat higher writing skill.

Mr. EISENBERG. Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. EISENBERG. On the record.

Mr. COLE. I now hand you a yellow sheet of paper, which has already

been introduced into evidence as Commission Exhibit No. 110, and

for the record I will state that this consists of an interlinear

translation from Russian into English. The Russian script on this

document has been identified as being that of George Bouhe an

acquaintance of the Oswald's, and the English script as being that

of Marina Oswald. Marina herself identified this as her handwriting,

and she stated that Bouhe was teaching her English by writing out the

Russian and having her translate into English. As far as I know this

is the only standard we have of Marina's handwriting in the Latin

alphabet. Mr. Cole. I ask you whether you have examined Commission

Exhibit 110?

Mr. COLE. I have.

Mr. EISENBERG. Have you attempted to compare the signature "A. J.

Hidell" on Commission Exhibit 819 with the Latin or English printing,

or writing rather, in Exhibit 110, to determine whether they were both

written by the same person?

Mr. COLE. I have.

Mr. EISENBERG. And what is your conclusion?

Mr. COLE. My conclusion is that the author of the writing in the

Latin alphabet on Exhibit 110 is a possible author of the name "A. J.

Hidell" on 819, but I do not offer that as a definite conclusion. I say

"possible author" because I observed a similarity in the particular

parts where close comparison is possible, namely, with respect to the

lowercase letter "d," of which one example is found in the word "day"

on the left side of the lower one-third of Exhibit 110. The similarity

consists in the degree of roundness of the body of the letter, and the

fairly short and thin loop or the upper extension of the letter "d,"

plus a similarity with respect to the terminal stroke of that letter,

the circumstance that it is not joined continuously with the letter

following.

Another similarity is observed in the double "l's" of the word

"especially," which is on the last line at the right side of 110, and

here we have a similarity with respect to the proportion of the height

of those letters relative to other small letters.

There is no opportunity for making a more extensive comparison between

the name "A. J. Hidell" on 819 with this standard writing. And on

that basis I would say only that the author of the standard could be

regarded as a possible author of the questioned signature.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Cole, would the production of Cyrillic writing, that

is writing in the Russian language, be useful to you in evaluating the

signature on 819?

Mr. COLE. I believe not.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you explain that?

Mr. COLE. Well, ordinarily a person who--I might say this, that the

construction in writing one alphabet and the other would be completely

different--that one would develop habits along different lines. It

could not be expected that there would be a close translation of habits

from one alphabet into another.

Mr. EISENBERG. Is enough writing present in 819 so that you believe you

could make a definite identification if you had a sufficient standard

on which to base your comparison?

Mr. COLE. Yes; I think so.

Mr. EISENBERG. If we obtained a greater standard, that is, a more

voluminous standard, of the handwriting of Marina Oswald or other

persons, would you undertake to make the examination and to submit your

result, either in the form of testimony or by written communication to

us, Mr. Cole?

Mr. COLE. Yes; I would be quite willing to.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Chairman, may we state on the record that the

Commission is requesting Mr. Cole to do this, if we can obtain a better

standard, and that we will attempt to obtain such a standard?

Mr. McCLOY. Very well.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Cole, referring to 110 again for a moment, can you

characterize the degree of skill with which the writing is produced,

that is the English or Latin alphabet present on 110?

Mr. COLE. I would say it is an average degree of skill, fairly good

based upon the perfection of letter forms, regularity of proportions,

speed of writing--I would say fairly good.

Mr. EISENBERG. Would it require much practice in the use of the Latin

alphabet to attain the degree of skill evidenced in 110?

Mr. COLE. Well, it would certainly take some practice. It is not the

writing of a novice in forming these particular letters.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you expand a little on what you mean by "some

practice"? A week's practice, or a month's practice, or a year's

practice?

Mr. COLE. Of course, this depends on how intensive the practice is, but

I would certainly say more than a week's practice.

Mr. McCLOY. Mr. Cole, have you examined the Russian script, have you

attempted to make anything out of such Russian script as we have of

Marina Oswald, have you seen standard forms?

Mr. COLE. No, sir; I have not.

Mr. McCLOY. Might it not be helpful to look at some of that to see

whether there is anything you can make out of that that would help you

in the----

Mr. COLE. I am inclined to doubt it, but I would be quite willing to

take a look at it.

Mr. McCLOY. I can understand your reasons for doubting it but there may

be something that we have here--we have here, have we not?

Mr. EISENBERG. Yes, we do.

Mr. McCLOY. A very substantial number, quantities of Marina's writing

in Russian, and it may be that there is something you can glean from

that if you would look at it perhaps before you go.

Mr. EISENBERG. I will make arrangements for Mr. Cole to see that

writing, Mr. Chairman.

Any further question on this Fair Play for Cuba Committee card?

Mr. McCLOY. No, I don't think so.

Mr. EISENBERG. Finally then, Mr. Cole, I show you an item consisting

of a letter on a yellow piece of stationery, apparently torn from

a legal-size pad, addressed to Leslie Welding Co. from "Lee H.

Oswald"--signed "Lee H. Oswald"--and with an address handprinted, and

reading "Dear Sir, this is to explain that I have moved permanently to

Dallas, Texas, where I have found other employment," and so forth, and

I ask you whether you have examined that item?

Mr. COLE. I have.

Mr. EISENBERG. May that be admitted as 826, Mr. Chairman?

Mr. McCLOY. It may be admitted.

(The item referred to was marked 826, and received into evidence.)

Mr. EISENBERG. Did you attempt to compare this item with the standards

to determine whether it had been produced by the author of the

standards?

Mr. COLE. I did.

Mr. EISENBERG. What was your conclusion?

Mr. COLE. It is my conclusion that the author of the standard writing

is the author of the writing shown by Exhibit 826.

Mr. EISENBERG. Can you briefly give us some of the reasons for that

conclusion?

Mr. COLE. Yes; there is an agreement in a great many details between

this letter, 826, some of which I think are more significant than

others.

One of the really highly significant points is the formation of the

letter "x" in the word "Texas" which has already been mentioned in

connection with other exhibits. Now, this word appears on 826, on the

second----

Mr. EISENBERG. Excuse me. That exhibit should be, have been, 820A.

Let's refer to it from now on as 820A.

(The item referred to was renumbered.)

Mr. COLE. The exhibit just mentioned is understood to be 820A, and the

word "Texas" appears on the second line of the body of the letter. The

method of forming this "x" is first to construct a =U=-like form, that

is, a form having two cusps with a shallow curve connecting the two,

and then to make the crossbar in such a manner that it comes very close

to the second cusp. This is a very unusual variation of the letter "x,"

and it appears in the standard writing--also in the word "Texas"--in

several places, chart B, items 4, 12, and 13.

The writing shows the tendency to exaggerate certain approach strokes

or initial strokes of letters. In the body of Exhibit 821 this is

evident in the letter "i" of "is," which is the second word of the

first line, and moving along that same first line we have the same

effect for the first stroke of the "t" of "to" and the "t" of "that."

Then moving down to the second paragraph, third word, the same effect

is shown, and this is illustrated in the standard writing in two

places, one good example being chart A, item 1, the word "to," the same

chart, item 3, the word "the."

The construction of the small letter "p" has been mentioned heretofore,

has been characterized by an absence of an upper extension, that is,

no extension that passes above the height of the body of the letter,

and the body of the letter is made in the form of an arch, rather

than a circle closed against the staff. This is shown in the words

"presently" and "employ," which are in the last line of writing of this

exhibit, and this is repeated in the standard writing as shown by chart

A, item 2, the word "support," item 3, the word "port" and the word

"transportation."

There is a very close agreement in all details of the signature of Lee

H. Oswald on this letter with the several examples of the signatures

shown on these charts, chart A, item 15, chart B, item 15, and chart C,

item 6, second to the last line.

The word "Texas," including this highly significant "x," is repeated as

the last word on this letter.

These constitute some of my reasons for believing that Exhibit 820A is

in the handwriting of the author of the standard writing.

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, to recapitulate then, all the standards which you

have examined and which were put in evidence, and all of the questioned

documents which you have examined and which were put in evidence, are

in the handwriting of the same person, with the exceptions you have

noted, such as "A. J. Hidell" on the penultimate exhibit, the FPCC card?

Mr. COLE. Yes, sir.

Mr. EISENBERG. Mr. Cole, did you have any information concerning any

identifications or nonidentifications of handwriting made by any other

Federal agency in this matter?

Mr. COLE. No, sir.

Mr. EISENBERG. Did you have any other information whatsoever concerning

identification or nonidentification by anyone in this matter?

Mr. COLE. No, sir.

Mr. EISENBERG. Do you at this point have any such information?

Mr. COLE. No, sir.

Mr. EISENBERG. That completes my examination, Mr. McCloy.

Mr. McCLOY. Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. McCLOY. Commission Exhibit 776 is a series of checks which have

been endorsed by Oswald, some in lead pencil and some in ink. Some of

those endorsements seem to be, rather the handwriting seems to be,

very irregular, loose, malformed, certain other ones very clear and

quite regular, and in comparison with other standards of Oswald's I

find some difficulty in conforming the signatures on certain of these

endorsements to those standards. I wonder if you would look at these

and tell me whether you have any comments in regard to the comments I

have made about this--about these checks? The first two or three there

seem to exemplify what I am talking about.

Mr. COLE. In my opinion the endorsements on these checks show a

moderately wide range of writing habit, and they also show variations

which may be due to an attitude about the act of writing, and I am

thinking especially of the more distorted signatures, such as that

appearing on No. 2408; and by attitude I mean that a person might find

the act of writing very inconvenient or distasteful or might actually

be experiencing some strong emotion at the particular time.

Mr. McCLOY. Could it be, might I interrupt, could it be that he was

writing while he was in movement here, while he was in an automobile or

some jolting vehicle?

Mr. COLE. Well, that can affect handwriting, of course, but I believe

it is unlikely, because the first letter of his name is well formed.

The first letter of "Lee" on this endorsement of 2408 shows as much

skill and control as any of the better signatures.

Mr. McCLOY. You think maybe something irritated him in between?

Mr. COLE. That is a possibility. I think most people find the act of

writing, especially writing a signature, a pleasant thing to do. I

think that is one reason why people develop a somewhat higher skill.

Mr. McCLOY. It depends on whether it is an endorsement of a check or a

drawing of the check.

Mr. COLE. That could make a difference.

Mr. McCLOY. Well, thank you very much.

Mr. COLE. Yes, sir.

(Whereupon, at 2:30 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)

_Tuesday, May 5, 1964_

TESTIMONY OF JOHN W. FAIN, JOHN LESTER QUIGLEY, AND JAMES PATRICK

HOSTY, JR.

The President's Commission met at 9:25 a.m. on May 5, 1964, at 200

Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C.

Present were Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman; Senator John Sherman

Cooper, Representative Gerald R. Ford, John J. McCloy, and Allen W.

Dulles, members.

Also present were J. Lee Rankin, general counsel; David W. Belin,

assistant counsel; Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel; Norman

Redlich, assistant counsel; Samuel A. Stern, assistant counsel; Howard

P. Willens, assistant counsel; Charles Murray, observer; and Leon

Jaworski, special counsel to the attorney general of Texas.

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