Mr. McCLOY. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you give at this
hearing will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
so help you God?
Mr. DAY. I do.
Mr. BELIN. State your name for the Commission.
Mr. DAY. J. C. Day.
Mr. BELIN. What is your occupation?
Mr. DAY. Lieutenant, Dallas Police Department assigned to the crime
scene search section of the identification bureau.
Mr. BELIN. How old are you?
Mr. DAY. Fifty.
Mr. BELIN. How long have you been associated with the Dallas Police
Department?
Mr. DAY. Twenty-three years.
Mr. BELIN. Did you go to school in Texas?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. How far did you get through school?
Mr. DAY. Through high school.
Mr. BELIN. And then what did you do?
Mr. DAY. I went to work for a machinery company there in Dallas for
about 9 years before I went with the city.
Mr. BELIN. Then you went there directly to the city?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Were you on duty on November 22, 1963?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Could you describe your activities from about noon on of
that day?
Mr. DAY. I was in the identification bureau at the city hall. About a
quarter of one I was in the basement of the city hall, which is three
floors under me--actually I am on the fourth floor--and a rumor swept
through there that the President had been shot.
I returned to my office to get on the radio and wait for the
developments. Shortly before 1 o'clock I received a call from the
police dispatcher to go to 411 Elm Street, Dallas.
Mr. BELIN. Is there any particular building at that particular location?
Mr. DAY. The Texas School Book Depository, I believe is the correct
name on it.
Mr. BELIN. Did you go there?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I went out of my office almost straight up 1
o'clock. I arrived at the location on Elm about 1:12.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got there?
Mr. DAY. I was directed to the sixth floor by the police inspector who
was at the front door when I arrived.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know who that was?
Mr. DAY. Inspector Sawyer.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do when you got to the sixth floor?
Mr. DAY. I had to go up the stairs. The elevator--we couldn't figure
out how to run it. When I got to the head of the stairs, I believe
it was the patrolman standing there, I am not sure, stated they had
found some hulls over in the northeast corner of the building, and I
proceeded to that area--excuse me, southeast corner of the building.
Mr. BELIN. Now, in your 23 years of work for the Dallas Police
Department, have you had occasion to spend a good number of these years
in crime-scene matters?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. How long, about?
Mr. DAY. The past 7 years I have been--I have had immediate supervision
of the crime-scene search section. It is our responsibility to go to
the scene of the crime, take photographs, check for fingerprints,
collect any other evidence that might be available, and primarily we
are to assist the investigators with certain technical parts of the
investigation.
Mr. BELIN. Do you carry any equipment of any kind with you when you go
there?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir. We have a station wagon equipped with fingerprint
equipment, cameras, containers, various other articles that might be
needed at the scene of the crime.
Mr. BELIN. Have you had any special education or training or background
insofar as your crime-scene work is concerned?
Mr. DAY. In the matter of fingerprints, I have been assigned to the
identification bureau 15 years. During that time I have attended
schools, the Texas Department of Public Safety, on fingerprinting; also
an advanced latent-print school conducted in Dallas by the Federal
Bureau of Investigation. I have also had other schooling with the Texas
Department of Public Safety and in the local department on crime-scene
search and general investigative work.
Mr. BELIN. Now, I believe you said that you were informed when you got
there that they had located some hulls?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do then?
Mr. DAY. I went to the northeast corner--southeast corner of the
building, and first made photographs of the three hulls.
Mr. McCLOY. What floor was this?
Mr. DAY. On the sixth floor. I took photographs of the three hulls as
they were found before they were moved.
Mr. BELIN. I am going to hand you some pictures here and ask you to say
if these pictures are the photographs you took. First, I will hand you
a picture marked "Commission Exhibit 715," and ask you to state, if you
know, what this is.
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir. That is one of the photographs we made of the hulls
on the floor.
Mr. BELIN. Now, who took the actual picture?
Mr. DAY. Detective Studebaker; R. L. Studebaker.
Mr. BELIN. Who is he?
Mr. DAY. At my direction.
Mr. BELIN. Who is he?
Mr. DAY. He is one of the officers who took this under my supervision,
and he accompanied me from the office to this building.
Mr. BELIN. Can you see in this picture the location of the hulls?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. I wonder if you could take this pen and circle the hulls
that you see there.
Mr. McCLOY. I only see two.
Mr. DAY. The other one doesn't show in this picture, I don't believe.
Mr. BELIN. You have circled two hulls that appear to be resting near
what would be the south wall of the building; is that correct?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Can you see the third hull in that picture?
Mr. DAY. I think you can barely see the tip end of it sticking out
there. I believe that is it.
Mr. BELIN. Do you want to circle where you think you can see the third
tip sticking out? I am now going to hand you what is marked "Commission
Exhibit No. 716," and ask you to state, if you know, what this is.
Mr. DAY. This is another view taken from a different angle of the same
location. All three hulls are clearly visible here.
Mr. BELIN. Would you circle the three hulls on Exhibit 716? Do you know
whether or not Exhibit 716 and Exhibit 715 were taken before these
hulls were moved?
Mr. DAY. They were taken before anything was moved, to the best of my
knowledge. I was advised when I got there nothing had been moved.
Mr. BELIN. Who so advised you?
Mr. DAY. I believe it was Detective Sims standing there, but I could be
wrong about that.
Mr. BELIN. Now, turning again to Exhibit 715, I notice that there is a
box in a window which is partially open. I am going to first ask you to
state what window this is.
Mr. DAY. This is the south window closest to Houston Street or, in
other words, it is the easternmost window on the south side of the
building on the sixth floor.
Mr. BELIN. Was this window in about the same location with respect to
how far it was open at the time you got there?
Mr. DAY. That is the position it was in when I got there.
Mr. BELIN. All right. I notice boxes throughout the picture, including
the box in the window. To the best of your knowledge, had any of those
boxes been moved prior to the time the picture, Exhibit 715, was taken?
Mr. DAY. No, sir; they had not.
Mr. BELIN. Now, I am going to show you a picture which has been
identified previously in Commission testimony as Commission Exhibit
482, which purports to have been a picture taken by a newspaper
photographer shortly after the assassination, showing the easternmost
windows on the south side of the fifth and the sixth floor of the Texas
School Book Depository Building.
You will notice there are two Negro males looking out of the lower pair
of windows, which would be the fifth-floor windows, and above that
there is one window which appears to be open with a box or boxes in it.
I am going to first ask you to state whether or not the boxes in that
picture, Exhibit 482, appear to be in the same location as you saw them
when you first got on the crime scene.
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I believe they are.
Mr. BELIN. Now, as you face the picture, the box to the right, which
would be to the east, has a corner sticking out, or just a corner of
the box shows. Is that the same box that appears to be resting on the
window ledge in Exhibit 715?
Mr. DAY. In my opinion, it is.
Mr. BELIN. I also note there is another box that appears to be in the
window on Exhibit 482. Is this box shown at all on either Exhibit 715
or 716, if you know?
Mr. DAY. No; I don't think it is.
Mr. BELIN. What do you think happened to this other box in the window
on Exhibit 482?
Mr. DAY. I think the box you see through the window is to the west of
the box you see here.
Mr. BELIN. You are pointing out that the box you see in the window, and
you are now pointing to Exhibit 482----
Mr. DAY. I think that is east of the four boxes shown in your No. 715.
Well, there are----
Mr. BELIN. Let me give you another question. On Exhibit 715 there is
only one box shown in the window actually resting on the ledge, which
is the box that you identified the corner out of in the eastern part of
the window shown on 482.
Now, what is the fact as to whether or not this other box on 482 would
have been resting on the ledge, or is it a pictorial view of something
that actually was in back of the window?
Mr. DAY. I think this is one of the boxes 2 feet 11 inches back from
the wall. There were two stacks of them, one behind the window sill
that you see here.
Mr. BELIN. You are pointing to the window sill between the pair of
windows on Exhibit 482?
Mr. DAY. That you can't see in this picture. This one is the other one
I am trying to say, this stack here--there are two stacks of boxes
here. This one is behind here. You can't see it.
Mr. BELIN. What you are pointing is, as you point to Exhibit 715, you
are saying that the tier of boxes which is in the left foreground, if
you were standing outside taking a picture, would be hidden by the
heavy beam between the windows, but beyond that, to the east of that,
there is another tier of boxes of which you think this other box in
Exhibit 482 is one; am I correct? Is this correct?
Mr. DAY. That is correct.
Mr. BELIN. Handing you Exhibit 716, will you see this at all on Exhibit
716?
Mr. DAY. This is the box, I think, showing here.
Mr. BELIN. Do you want to make an X on the box on Exhibit 716 that you
think is the other box showing in the window on Exhibit 482?
Mr. DAY. The corner that is showing I don't believe shows in the
picture.
Mr. BELIN. All right. You put an X on a box which I would say, looking
at this picture, appears to be the fourth box starting from the bottom
count, and you believe that is the picture or--that is the box that is
shown in the window?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. DAY. I don't know what time this was taken. Do you?
Mr. BELIN. Well, you are asking with regard to Exhibit 482? We know it
was taken, I would say, not more than a minute after the shooting. This
is our best recollection based on testimony of the two people in the
window below, because this was their position as they saw the shooting,
and the photographer himself says that after the shots were fired, he
jumped out of the motorcade and took two shots of the building. This
could have been the first or the second shot he took. He used two
different cameras, so I don't imagine it would have been very long
after the actual shots were fired.
For the record, I should add one other thing at this point. There is
testimony by the deputy sheriff that found the shells, that after he
found them he leaned out of the window to call down to try and tell
someone that he found something, and it is conceivable that he moved a
box, although he did not so testify. In other words, I don't want you
to take this as the testimony of anyone----
Mr. DAY. What I am getting at, this box doesn't jibe with my picture of
the inside.
Mr. BELIN. You are pointing now to the other box on Exhibit 482. You
say that does not jibe with the chart that you have here that you
brought with you of boxes that you had inside.
Let me ask you this: When did you prepare your chart of boxes inside?
Mr. DAY. This chart here was prepared on the 25th. However, pictures
were made immediately after my arrival.
Mr. BELIN. You are talking now about Exhibit 715 and Exhibit 716?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; don't jibe with that box there.
Mr. BELIN. What I am asking you then is this: Is it possible that
the box that is shown on Exhibit 482 is not shown on Exhibit 715 and
Exhibit 716? By that I mean not the box that you see a corner of, but
I am talking about the other box that is clear to the west of the
easternmost window.
Mr. DAY. I just don't know. I can't explain that box there depicted
from the outside as related to the pictures that I took inside.
Mr. BELIN. In other words, what you are saying is that on the sixth
floor window the westernmost box on Exhibit 482, you cannot then relate
to any of the boxes shown on Exhibits 715 or 716?
Mr. DAY. That is correct.
Mr. BELIN. Do you wish to correct your testimony with regard to the X
you placed on the fourth box on the stack in Exhibit 716?
Mr. DAY. Yes; that is just not the same box. It is not the same box.
This is the first time I have seen No. 482.
Mr. BELIN. All right. We will substitute for 716 then a copy of the
picture without the X mark on it.
Mr. McCLOY. 482 was taken by the news photographer?
Mr. BELIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. McCLOY. Immediately after the shooting?
Mr. BELIN. Yes, sir.
Mr. McCLOY. The two colored men were still in the position where they
were?
Mr. BELIN. Yes, sir. He actually took two pictures. He took one of
the building--that showed most of the south side of the building,
and another with a different kind of lens that was aimed up to that
particular corner. I will check to see if I can find the other picture,
Mr McCloy. Commission Exhibit 480 is the first picture that he took, or
I shouldn't say the first--one of the two pictures he took.
You can see the southeast corner window on the sixth floor, and I will
show you, Lieutenant Day, that you can still see two of those boxes
there, and you can see on the window below, at least you can see, one
of the Negro men. The other picture was Exhibit 481, and I believe 482
was actually an enlargement of 481.
Mr. DAY. I still don't quite understand that one in relation to
pictures here unless something was moved after this was taken before I
got there.
Mr. BELIN. What you are saving is on that southeast corner window, on
the sixth floor, you do not understand the box that is the westernmost
box of the two boxes in the window unless it was moved by someone
before you got there to take the pictures?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What about the other box as shown on Exhibit 482, does that
appear to be in substantially the same position as the box in the
window shown on your Exhibit 715?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; it appears to be the same.
Mr. BELIN. Now, on Exhibit 715, that box appears to be almost resting
against the east part of the window where it does not so appear on
Exhibit 482. Is this an optical illusion on 715?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I don't think it was up against the window sill. It
was over as indicated on 482.
Mr. BELIN. Lieutenant Day, you took some two pictures of those shell
casings. Let me first get you through all the pictures you took.
Where did you next take pictures on the sixth floor after you took the
pictures of the shell casing; what did you do then?