Mr. FRITZ. I do know we talked to him a number of times all along, and
these questions and answers are right, but the times may be off.
Mr. BALL. You did show him this picture, a picture of Oswald with a
rifle and pistol?
Mr. FRITZ. I showed him that at one of those interviews, yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And he denied that that was a picture of him.
Mr. FRITZ. That is true; yes, sir; that is right.
Mr. BALL. There was another showup that afternoon at 2:15?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. At which time two cabdrivers, one named Scoggins and one
named Whaley were shown Oswald. Were you present at that showup?
Mr. FRITZ. I don't think so. I will look and see right quickly but I
don't think I was. That would have been on the 23d.
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. FRITZ. That shows him--M. G. Hall--wait a minute, I am in the wrong
one, pardon me. Showup No. 4, shows Officers V. S. Hinkel, Walter
Potts, M. G. Hall, C. W. Brown, and J. R. Leavelle who was with the
people handling the showup.
Mr. BALL. Your records also show that you were brought--he was brought
to your office again at 6 o'clock?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Will you look at page 138B of your notes. (Commission
Document 81B) Was that the time you talked to him about the rifle?
Mr. FRITZ. 6 o'clock?
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. FRITZ. That is when I showed an enlarged picture, yes, sir, that is
what I show here, yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. In the meantime you had gone out to Neely Street, hadn't you,
to try to determine whether or not this was the place for the rifle?
Mr. FRITZ. No, sir; we didn't find that out until some time later.
Mr. BALL. You didn't?
Mr. FRITZ. No, sir; we had heard of the Neely Street address but we
didn't know that that was the place where the picture was taken. But
later on, Mr. Sorrels and some of the Secret Service men called me
and they had found out, I believe from Marina, that that is where the
picture was made and they called me and asked me to go with them and we
made some other pictures out there to show the place.
Mr. BALL. On this evening at 6 o'clock who was present at the
questioning?
Mr. FRITZ. At the questioning, just a minute.
Mr. DULLES. What is the reference to the Marines?
Mr. BALL. Marina.
Mr. DULLES. Marina, I didn't catch it.
Mr. BALL. Who was present at that, do you remember, on 6 o'clock on
Saturday evening, the 23d? See page 138B.
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; I believe Mr. Bookhout, Inspector Kelley, myself,
and officers.
Mr. McCLOY. This was an interrogation?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Was that the time when he told you, someone superimposed the
picture on his face?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; that is right.
Mr. BALL. After he had talked to you a while he told you he didn't want
to talk to you any more, didn't he?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Look on the second page, 138C, and tell me what happened.
Give me in your own words what occurred there.
Mr. FRITZ. You mean about the picture?
Mr. BALL. Tell me in your own words, yes.
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; at that time he told me that--the first of
the page up here is when he told me he didn't want to answer more
questions. "I just told you about that but you want to know something
else about this other party."
Mr. BALL. You talked to him sometime later.
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; I showed him this map, showed him a map of the
city of Dallas that he had, and the map had been brought in from his
address on North Beckley, and he told me that those markings, they had
several markings on this map, one of them was near----
Mr. BALL. Wait a minute, isn't that the next morning? We are talking
about Saturday night now, you have told us about showing him the
enlarged photograph.
Mr. FRITZ. I show 9:30 the morning of the 24th.
Mr. BALL. I am talking about the night.
Mr. FRITZ. All right.
Mr. DULLES. 6:30 at night.
Mr. BALL. 6:30 in the evening.
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. You showed him the photographs?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; pictures.
Mr. BALL. And he told you they weren't his?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did he tell you then? Didn't he tell you then he didn't
want to answer any more questions?
Mr. FRITZ. Let's see if he did.
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. FRITZ. That is the time that he told me about the photography, that
he knew all about photography, and then he said, he didn't want to
answer any more questions.
Mr. BALL. What time did you put him back in jail?
Mr. FRITZ. 7:15 p.m.
Mr. BALL. And you didn't see him again that night?
Mr. FRITZ. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Now, the next morning you checked him out of jail?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; the 24th we had him down in the morning, yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Who was present that time?
Mr. FRITZ. That time here at 9:30 in the morning, one of the postal
inspectors, Mr. Holmes, Mr. Sorrels, Mr. Bookhout, and I am not sure
about Mr. Sorrels staying in there all the time. He was in there part
of the time, and that is the time that I showed him the map, too, that
morning with these markings on it.
Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mr. FRITZ. Well, he said they didn't mean anything. Those markings were
places he had gone looking for work. I asked him at that time, too,
more about his religious beliefs, and Inspector Kelley asked him what
he thought about religion and he said he didn't think too much of it. I
believe he said of the philosophy of religion.
So he asked him two or three other questions and he was a little
evasive so I asked him if he believed in a deity. He said he didn't
care to discuss that with me.
Mr. BALL. What else was said?
Mr. FRITZ. I asked him, too, I believe on that same morning, I asked
him more about his political beliefs and he told me he didn't belong to
any political party and he told me he was a Marxist but that he wasn't
a Marxist-Leninist, that he was just a Marxist, and that he again told
me that he believed in the Castro revolution. That is the morning of
the transfer.
Mr. BALL. You asked him about the gun again, didn't you?
Mr. FRITZ. I asked him about a lot of things that morning, I sure did.
Mr. BALL. Tell us about it.
Mr. FRITZ. He denied anything about Alek Hidell, and again about his
belief in the Fair Play for Cuba.
Mr. BALL. What about the rifle?
Mr. FRITZ. I asked him about the Neely Street address and he denied
that address. He denied having a picture made over there and he even
denied living there. I told him he had people who visited him over
there and he said they were just wrong about visiting.
Mr. BALL. Did you ask him again about the rifle, did you ask him if
that was the picture, that that rifle was his?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; I am sure I did.
Mr. BALL. Look at your notes.
Mr. FRITZ. All right, sir. Yes, sir; I did. I asked him again if that
was his picture holding the rifle and he said it was not.
Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mr. FRITZ. He denied it. He said he didn't have any knowledge of the
picture at all. He said someone else had made it, he didn't know a
thing about it or the rifle.
Mr. BALL. Didn't you also that same morning again ask him if he brought
a sack with him to work on the morning the President was killed?
Mr. FRITZ. Well, I asked him. I believe that morning I might have asked
him that. I believe I asked him about the sack.
Mr. BALL. Without looking at your notes there let me ask you this.
Mr. FRITZ. All right.
Mr. BALL. When you did ask him about the sack, you did ask him about
it, a sack at one time bringing a sack to work that morning?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes; I did.
Mr. BALL. And you asked him the size and shape of the sack, didn't you?
Mr. FRITZ. He never admitted bringing the sack. I showed him the size
probably in asking him if he brought a sack that size and he denied it.
He said he brought his lunch was all he brought.
Mr. BALL. Didn't he say when you asked him the size and shape of the
sack that he had with him, he said, "I don't recall, it may have been
a small sack or a large sack. You don't always find one that fits your
sandwiches," something like that.
Mr. FRITZ. That might be true but he said it was a small sack. He said
it was a lunch sack.
Mr. BALL. Didn't you ask him where he usually kept his sacks, how he
carried it when he came to work in the car?
Mr. FRITZ. I asked him where he had the sack--his lunch, and he said he
had it in the front seat with him.
Mr. BALL. Did you ask him if he put any sack in the back seat?
Mr. FRITZ. He said he did not.
Mr. BALL. Did you tell him that Frazier had told you that he had had a
long parcel and placed it in the back seat?
Mr. FRITZ. I am not sure about saying Frazier, I am looking at this
note to see if I did.