Mr. BALL. All right, look and see. You also asked him that day about
the curtain rods, didn't you?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Had you asked him about that the night before, do you know or
was this the first time you talked to him about it?
Mr. FRITZ. I don't think I asked him the night before, I am sure I did
not. I am sure I did not ask him the night before. I remember I was
pretty hesitant about asking him about them at all because I told you
I didn't want to tell him--I didn't want him to tell me about curtain
rods until I found out a little more about them.
Mr. BALL. But you asked him about them this morning?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. He had told Frazier that he had curtain rods in the package?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; he denied having curtain rods or any package other
than his lunch.
Mr. BALL. Didn't you also ask him what he had done when he went home,
what, when he went to 1026 North Beckley?
Mr. FRITZ. When he went to Beckley?
Mr. BALL. What he did.
Mr. FRITZ. What he did when he went on North Beckley?
Mr. BALL. After the cab ride, what he had done.
Mr. FRITZ. This time he told me a different story about changing the
clothing. He told me this time that he had changed his trousers and
shirt and I asked him what he did with his dirty clothes and he said, I
believe he said, he put them, the dirty clothes, I believe he said he
put a shirt in a drawer.
Mr. BALL. And you asked him again, didn't you, what he was doing at the
time the President was shot?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mr. FRITZ. Well, he told me about the same story about this lunch.
Mr. BALL. He mentioned who he was having lunch with, did he not?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; he told me he was having lunch when the President
was shot.
Mr. BALL. With whom?
Mr. FRITZ. With someone called Junior, someone he worked with down
there, but he didn't remember the other boy's name.
Mr. BALL. Did he tell you what he was eating?
Mr. FRITZ. He told me, I believe, that he had, I am doing this from
memory, a cheese sandwich, and he also mentioned he had some fruit, I
had forgotten about the fruit until I looked at this report.
Mr. BALL. Did he say that was in the package he had brought from home?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; there was one reason I asked him about what was
in the package, we had had a story that had been circulated around the
meantime about some chicken bones. I am sure you heard of that, and I
wanted to find for sure what he did have in his lunch and he told me
about having--he told me they did not have any chicken out there and
I also talked with the Paines and they told me they didn't have any
chicken in the icebox, they did have some cheese.
Mr. BALL. But he said he had had lunch with Junior?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; and with someone else.
Mr. BALL. Did you find out that there was an employee named Junior, a
man that was nicknamed Junior at the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. FRITZ. Probably we have it here, some of the officers probably did,
we had all these people checked out. I didn't do it myself probably.
Mr. BALL. That same morning, you asked him also about his affiliations,
didn't you ask him if he belonged to the Communist Party?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; I asked him if he belonged to the Communist Party.
Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mr. FRITZ. He said he did not. He said he never had a card. He told me
again that he did belong to the Fair Play for Cuba organization, that
he was in favor of the Castro revolution and I don't remember what else
he might have told me.
Mr. BALL. What about the pistol that he had on him when he was
arrested, did you question him about that this morning?
Mr. FRITZ. That morning?
Mr. BALL. Your notes show that you did.
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; I talked to him about the pistol and asked him
where he got it.
Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mr. FRITZ. He told me he had got it about 6 or 7 months before in Fort
Worth but he wouldn't tell me where he got it. When I asked him a
little further about that he told me he didn't want to talk any further
about the pistol.
Mr. BALL. Did the FBI, did any FBI agent question him that morning?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; Mr. Bookhout asked a few questions along, I don't
remember just exactly what they asked, but he asked him a few questions.
Mr. BALL. Was there any further questioning about an attorney, whether
or not he wanted a lawyer and who he wanted?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; there probably was because I talked to him about
a lawyer a number of times and he said he didn't want the local
attorneys, some attorney had been up to see him after one of these
questionings, and he said he didn't want him at all. He wanted Mr. Abt.
And he couldn't get him and I told you about the ones there in the
American Civil Liberties Union.
Mr. BALL. Didn't he tell you at one time he didn't want to answer any
questions until he talked to his lawyer?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; he told me that two or three times.
Mr. BALL. This morning he told you that, didn't he?
Mr. FRITZ. He probably did.
Mr. BALL. Look on your notes there on the page 137D and see whether or
not that refreshes your memory? (Commission Document 81B.)
Mr. FRITZ. 137G?
Mr. BALL. 137D.
Mr. FRITZ. I told him--you know he had told me he could not use the
telephone because he didn't have the money to pay for a call. I told
him he could call collect from the jail to call anyone he wanted to,
and I believe at that time he probably thanked me for that.
But I told him that we allowed all prisoners to do that.
Mr. BALL. Did he say he didn't have money enough?
Mr. FRITZ. He told me that but as I said I told him he didn't need the
money, he could call him collect, and use the jail phone, telephone.
Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mr. FRITZ. That seemed to please him all right, because he evidently
did because the next time I saw him he thanked me for letting him use
the phone, but I told him it wasn't a favor; everyone could do that.
Mr. DULLES. Do you know who he called?
Mr. FRITZ. I don't know, I wasn't there.
Mr. DULLES. Is there any record?
Mr. FRITZ. I don't believe there would be. I think you give him the use
of the telephone and they could call when they wanted to. He could have
called half a dozen people if he wanted to.
Mr. DULLES. He couldn't make a long distance call, could he? I suppose
he could if he called collect.
Mr. FRITZ. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Was Mr. Kelley of the Secret Service present at this time,
this morning?
Mr. FRITZ. He was there most of the time after the 22d. He wasn't there
on the 22d.
Mr. BALL. This is the morning of the 23d we are talking about.
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; he was there, yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever ask him what he thought of President Kennedy or
his family?
Mr. FRITZ. Yes, sir; I asked him what he thought of the President.
Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mr. FRITZ. What he thought about the family--he said he didn't have any
particular comment to make about the President.
He said he had a nice family, that he admired his family, something to
that effect. At one time, I don't have this in my report, but at one
time I told him, I said, "You know you have killed the President, and
this is a very serious charge."
He denied it and said he hadn't killed the President.
I said he had been killed. He said people will forget that within a few
days and there would be another President.
Mr. DULLES. Did he say anything about Governor Connally?
Mr. FRITZ. No, sir; I don't think I questioned him about the Governor
at that time. I might have asked him at one time. I remember telling
him at one time he shot the Governor.
Mr. DULLES. Will you give us that?
Mr. FRITZ. He denied shooting any of them.