Governor, this Commission has met today for the purpose of taking the
testimony of you and Mrs. Connally concerning the sad affair that you
were part of. If you will raise your right hand, please, and be sworn.
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before this
Commission will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God?
Governor CONNALLY. I do.
The CHAIRMAN. You may be seated, Governor. Mr. Specter will conduct the
examination.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you state your full name for the record, please?
Governor CONNALLY. John Bowden Connally.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your official position with the State of Texas,
sir?
Governor CONNALLY. I am now Governor of the State of Texas.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you have occasion to be in the automobile which
carried President John F. Kennedy through Dallas, Tex., back on
November 22, 1963.
Governor CONNALLY. Yes, sir; I did.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you outline briefly, please, the circumstances
leading up to the President's planning a trip to Texas in November of
last year?
Governor CONNALLY. You want to go back to--how far back do you want to
go, a few days immediately prior to the trip or a month before, or all
of the circumstances surrounding it?
Mr. SPECTER. Well, just a very brief picture leading up to the trip,
Governor, starting with whatever point you think would be most
appropriate to give some outline of the origin of the trip.
Governor CONNALLY. Well, it had been thought that he should come to
Texas for a period of many months, as a matter of fact. There was some
thought given to it during 1962. The trip kept being delayed.
Finally in the fall of 1963 it was decided that he definitely should
come, or should come in the fall of last year as opposed to waiting
until this year, when his appearance might have more political
overtones.
So I came up, I have forgotten the exact date, around the middle of
October and talked to him about it, discussed the details, asked him
what he would like to do.
He said he would like to do whatever he could do that was agreeable
with me; it was agreeable with me that he more or less trust me to
plan the trip for him, to tell him where he would like to go. About
that time some thought was being given to having four fundraising
dinners. His attitude on that was he wouldn't prefer that. He felt
that the appearances would not be too good, that he would much prefer
to have one if we were going to have any. I told him this was entirely
consistent with my own thoughts. We ought not to have more than one
fundraising dinner. If we did, it ought to be in Austin. If we could do
it, I would like for him to see and get into as many areas of the State
as possible while he was there.
He, on his own, had made a commitment to go to the dinner for
Congressman Albert Thomas, which was being given the night of the 21st
in Houston, so shortly, really before he got there, and when I say
shortly I would say 2 weeks before he came, the plans were altered a
little bit in that he landed originally in San Antonio in the afternoon
about 1:30 of the afternoon of the 21st. From there we went to Houston,
attended the Thomas dinner that night at about 8 o'clock.
After that we flew to Fort Worth, spent the night at the Texas Hotel,
had a breakfast there the next morning, and left about 10 o'clock,
10:30, for the flight over to Dallas.
Mr. SPECTER. In what vehicle did you fly from Fort Worth to Dallas?
Governor CONNALLY. In Air Force 1.
Mr. SPECTER. And approximately what time did you arrive at Love Field,
Tex.
Governor CONNALLY. I would say about 11:50, 12:00, shortly before noon.
I believe the luncheon was planned for 12:30, and we were running on
schedule. I believe it was 11:50.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you describe for us briefly the ceremonies at Love
Field on the arrival of the President?
Governor CONNALLY. Well, we, as usual, the President had a receiving
line there. I conducted Mrs. Kennedy through the receiving line and
introduced her to about 15 or 17 people who were there as an official
welcoming committee.
The President came right behind, was introduced to them, and then he
and Mrs. Kennedy both went over to the railing and spoke to a number
of people who were standing around, who visited for 5 or 10 minutes,
and then we got into the car as we had customarily done at each of the
stops, and Mrs. Connally and I got on the jump seats, and with the
President and Mrs. Kennedy on the back seat, and took off for the long
motorcade downtown.
Mr. SPECTER. I will now hand you a photograph which I have marked
"Commission Exhibit 697," Governor Connally, and ask you if that
accurately depicts the occupants of the car as you were starting that
motorcade trip through Dallas?
Governor CONNALLY. Yes; it does.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know the identities of the men who are riding in
the front seat of the car?
Governor CONNALLY. Yes. Roy Kellerman is on the right front. He is a
Secret Service agent, and Bill--I can't remember the other's name----
Mr. SPECTER. Greer.
I hand you another photograph here, Governor, marked as "Commission
Exhibit 698," and ask you if that is a picture of the President's
automobile during its ride through the downtown area of Dallas?
Governor CONNALLY. Yes; I assume it is. This is certainly the
President's automobile, and this is the precise position that each of
us occupied in the ride through Dallas. It was the same position, and
could be a photograph, of any number of places that we went. But I was
seated in the jump seat immediately in front of him, and Mrs. Connally
was seated immediately in front of Mrs. Kennedy in the jump seat, and
Roy Kellerman was immediately in front of me.
Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Chief Justice, may I move at this time the admission
into evidence of Exhibits 697 and 698?
The CHAIRMAN. They may be admitted.
(The items marked Commission Exhibits Nos. 697 and 698 were received in
evidence.)
Mr. SPECTER. What was the relative height of the jump seats, Governor,
with respect to the seat of the President and Mrs. Kennedy immediately
to your rear?
Governor CONNALLY. They were somewhat lower. The back seat of that
particular Lincoln limousine, which is a specially designed and built
automobile, as you know, for the President of the United States, has an
adjustable back seat. It can be lowered or raised. I would say the back
seat was approximately 6 inches higher than the jump seats on which
Mrs. Connally and I sat.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you know for certain whether or not the movable back
seat was elevated at the time?
Governor CONNALLY. No; I could not be sure of it, although I know
there were--there was a time or two when he did elevate it, and
I think beyond question on most of the ride in San Antonio, Fort
Worth, Houston, and Dallas, it was elevated. For a while--the reason
I know is--I sat on the back seat with him during part of the ride,
particularly in San Antonio, not in Dallas, but in San Antonio. The
wind was blowing, and we were traveling fairly fast, and Mrs. Kennedy
preferred to sit on the jump seat, and I was sitting on the back seat
part of the time, and the seat was elevated, and I think it was on
substantially all the trip.
Mr. SPECTER. Was the portion elevated, that where only the President
sat?
Governor CONNALLY. No; the entire back seat.
Mr. SPECTER. Describe in a general way the size and reaction of the
crowd on the motorcade route, if you would, please, Governor?
Governor CONNALLY. When we got into Dallas, there was quite a large
crowd at the airport to greet their President, I would say several
thousand people.
Part way downtown, in the thinly populated areas of Dallas, where
we traveled, the crowds were not thick and were somewhat restrained
in their reaction. By restrained, I mean they were not wildly
enthusiastic, but they were grown people. There was a mature crowd as
we went through some of the residential areas. They applauded and they
were obviously very friendly in their conduct.
But as we, of course, approached downtown, the downtown area of Dallas,
going down the main street, the crowds were tremendous. They were
stacked from the curb and even outside the curb, back against the back
walls. It was a huge crowd. I would estimate there were 250,000 people
that had lined the streets that day as we went down.
The further you went the more enthusiastic the response was, and the
reception. It was a tremendous reception, to the point where just as
we turned on Houston Street off of Main, and turned on Houston, down
by the courthouse, Mrs. Connally remarked to the President, "Well, Mr.
President, you can't say there aren't some people in Dallas who love
you." And the President replied, "That is very obvious," or words to
that effect.
So I would say the reception that he got in Dallas was equal to, if
not more, enthusiastic than those he had received in Fort Worth, San
Antonio, and Houston.
Mr. SPECTER. Are there any other conversations which stand out in your
mind on the portion of the motorcade trip through Dallas itself?
Governor CONNALLY. No; actually we had more or less desultory
conversation as we rode along. The crowds were thick all the way down
on both sides, and all of us were, particularly the President and Mrs.
Kennedy were, acknowledging the crowds. They would turn frequently,
smiling, waving to the people, and the opportunity for conversation
was limited. So there was no particularly significant conversation or
conversations which took place. It was, as I say, pretty desultory
conversation.
Mr. SPECTER. Did the automobile stop at any point during this
procession?
Governor CONNALLY. Yes; it did. There were at least two occasions on
which the automobile stopped in Dallas and, perhaps, a third. There was
one little girl, I believe it was, who was carrying a sign saying, "Mr.
President, will you please stop and shake hands with me," or some that
was the import of the sign, and he just told the driver to stop, and
he did stop and shook hands, and, of course, he was immediately mobbed
by a bunch of youngsters, and the Secret Service men from the car
following us had to immediately come up and wedge themselves in between
the crowd and the car to keep them back away from the automobile, and
it was a very short stop.
At another point along the route, a Sister, a Catholic nun, was there,
obviously from a Catholic school, with a bunch of little children, and
he stopped and spoke to her and to the children; and I think there was
one other stop on the way downtown, but I don't recall the precise
occasion. But I know there were two, but I think there was still
another one.
Mr. SPECTER. Are there any other events prior to the time of the
shooting itself which stand out in your mind on the motorcade trip
through Dallas?
Governor CONNALLY. No; not that have any particular significance.
Mr. SPECTER. As to the comment which Mrs. Connally had made to
President Kennedy which you just described, where on the motor trip was
that comment made, if you recall?
Governor CONNALLY. This was just before we turned on Elm Street, after
we turned off of Main.
Mr. SPECTER. Onto Houston?
Governor CONNALLY. Onto Houston, right by the courthouse before we
turned left onto Elm Street, almost at the end of the motorcade, and
almost, I would say, perhaps a minute before the fatal shooting.
Mr. SPECTER. What was the condition of the crowd at that juncture of
the motorcade, sir?
Governor CONNALLY. At that particular juncture, when she made this
remark, the crowd was still very thick and very enthusiastic. It began
to thin immediately after we turned onto Elm Street. We could look
ahead and see that the crowd was beginning to thin along the banks,
just east, I guess of the overpass.
Mr. SPECTER. Was there any difficulty in hearing such a conversational
comment?
Governor CONNALLY. No, no; we could talk without any, and hear very
clearly, without any difficulty, without any particular strain. We
didn't do it again because in trying to carry on a conversation it
would be apparent to those who were the spectators on the sidewalk,
and we didn't want to leave the impression we were not interested in
them, and so we just didn't carry on a conversation, but we could do so
without any trouble.
Mr. SPECTER. As the automobile turned left onto Elm from Houston, what
did occur there, Governor?
Governor CONNALLY. We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe
200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the
freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were
going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and
we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in
approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street.
We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a
shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot.
I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come
from over my right shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right
shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd,
but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was
interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified
it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my
mind was that this is an assassination attempt.
So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my
left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn.
I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little
bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in
the back.
Mr. SPECTER. What is the best estimate that you have as to the time
span between the sound of the first shot and the feeling of someone
hitting you in the back which you just described?
Governor CONNALLY. A very, very brief span of time. Again my trend of
thought just happened to be, I suppose along this line, I immediately
thought that this--that I had been shot. I knew it when I just looked
down and I was covered with blood, and the thought immediately passed
through my mind that there were either two or three people involved or
more in this or someone was shooting with an automatic rifle. These
were just thoughts that went through my mind because of the rapidity
of these two, of the first shot plus the blow that I took, and I knew
I had been hit, and I immediately assumed, because of the amount of
blood, and, in fact, that it had obviously passed through my chest,
that I had probably been fatally hit.
So I merely doubled up, and then turned to my right again and began
to--I just sat there, and Mrs. Connally pulled me over to her lap. She
was sitting, of course, on the jump seat, so I reclined with my head
in her lap, conscious all the time, and with my eyes open; and then,
of course, the third shot sounded, and I heard the shot very clearly.
I heard it hit him. I heard the shot hit something, and I assumed
again--it never entered my mind that it ever hit anybody but the
President. I heard it hit. It was a very loud noise, just that audible,
very clear.
Immediately I could see on my clothes, my clothing, I could see on
the interior of the car which, as I recall, was a pale blue, brain
tissue, which I immediately recognized, and I recall very well, on my
trousers there was one chunk of brain tissue as big as almost my thumb,
thumbnail, and again I did not see the President at any time either
after the first, second, or third shots, but I assumed always that it
was he who was hit and no one else.
I immediately, when I was hit, I said, "Oh, no, no, no." And then I
said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." Nellie, when she pulled
me over into her lap----
Mr. SPECTER. Nellie is Mrs. Connally?
Governor CONNALLY. Mrs. Connally. When she pulled me over into her lap,
she could tell I was still breathing and moving, and she said, "Don't
worry. Be quiet. You are going to be all right." She just kept telling
me I was going to be all right.
After the third shot, and I heard Roy Kellerman tell the driver, "Bill,
get out of line." And then I saw him move, and I assumed he was moving
a button or something on the panel of the automobile, and he said, "Get
us to a hospital quick." I assumed he was saying this to the patrolman,
the motorcycle police who were leading us.
At about that time, we began to pull out of the cavalcade, out of the
line, and I lost consciousness and didn't regain consciousness until we
got to the hospital.
Mr. SPECTER. Governor Connally, I hand you a photograph, marked
Commission Exhibit 699, which is an overhead shot of Dealey Plaza
depicting the intersection of Houston and Elm, and ask you if you would
take a look at that photograph and mark for us, if you would, with
one of the red pencils at your right, the position of the President's
automobile as nearly as you can where it was at the time the shooting
first started.
Governor CONNALLY. I would say it would be about where this truck is
here. It looks like a truck. I would say about in that neighborhood.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you place your initials, Governor, by the mark that
you made there?
Governor, you have described hearing a first shot and a third shot. Did
you hear a second shot?
Governor CONNALLY. No; I did not.
Mr. SPECTER. What is your best estimate as to the timespan between
the first shot which you heard and the shot which you heretofore
characterized as the third shot?
Governor CONNALLY. It was a very brief span of time; oh, I would have
to say a matter of seconds. I don't know. 10, 12 seconds. It was
extremely rapid, so much so that again I thought that whoever was
firing must be firing with an automatic rifle because of the rapidity
of the shots; a very short period of time.
Mr. SPECTER. What was your impression then as to the source of the shot?
Governor CONNALLY. From back over my right shoulder which, again, was
where immediately when I heard the first shot I identified the sound as
coming back over my right shoulder.
Mr. SPECTER. At an elevation?
Governor CONNALLY. At an elevation. I would have guessed at an
elevation.
Mr. SPECTER. Excuse me.
Governor CONNALLY. Well, that is all.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you have an impression as to the source of the third
shot?
Governor CONNALLY. The same. I would say the same.
Mr. SPECTER. How fast was the President's automobile proceeding at that
time?
Governor CONNALLY. I would guess between 20 and 22 miles an hour, and
it is a guess because I didn't look at the speedometer, but I would say
in that range.
Mr. SPECTER. Did President Kennedy make any statement during the time
of the shooting or immediately prior thereto?
Governor CONNALLY. He never uttered a sound at all that I heard.
Mr. SPECTER. Did Mrs. Kennedy state anything at that time?
Governor CONNALLY. Yes; I have to--I would say it was after the third
shot when she said, "They have killed my husband."
Mr. SPECTER. Did she say anything more?
Governor CONNALLY. Yes; she said, I heard her say one time, "I have got
his brains in my hand."
Mr. SPECTER. Did that constitute everything that she said at that time?
Governor CONNALLY. That is all I heard her say.
Mr. SPECTER. Did Mrs. Connally say anything further at this time?
Governor CONNALLY. All she said to me was, after I was hit when she
pulled me over in her lap, she said, "Be quiet, you are going to be
all right. Be still, you are going to be all right." She just kept
repeating that.
Mr. SPECTER. Was anything further stated by Special Agent Roy Kellerman
other than that which you have already testified about?
Governor CONNALLY. No; those are the only two remarks that I heard him
make.
Mr. SPECTER. Was any statement made by Special Agent William Greer at
or about the time of the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. No; I did not hear Bill say anything.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by President Kennedy after
the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. No; I did not see him.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by Mrs. Kennedy after the
shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. I did not see her. This almost sounds incredible, I
am sure, since we were in the car with them. But again I will repeat
very briefly when what I believe to be the shot first occurred, I
turned to my right, which was away from both of them, of course, and
looked out and could see neither, and then as I was turning to look
into the back seat where I would have seen both of them, I was hit, so
I never completed the turn at all, and I never saw either one of them
after the firing started, and, of course, as I have testified, then
Mrs. Connally pulled me over into her lap and I was facing forward with
my head slightly turned up to where I could see the driver and Roy
Kellerman on his right, but I could not see into the back seat, so I
didn't see either one of them.
Mr. SPECTER. When you turned to your right, Governor Connally,
immediately after you heard the first shot, what did you see on that
occasion?
Governor CONNALLY. Nothing of any significance except just people out
on the grass slope. I didn't see anything that was out of the ordinary,
just saw men, women, and children.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you have any estimate as to the distance which the
President's automobile traveled during the shooting?
Governor CONNALLY. No; I hadn't thought about it, but I would suppose
in 10 to 12 seconds, I suppose you travel a couple of hundred feet.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any bullet or fragments of bullet strike
the windshield?
Governor CONNALLY. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any bullet or fragments of bullet strike
the metal chrome?
Governor CONNALLY. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you experience any sensation of being struck any place
other than that which you have described on your chest?
Governor CONNALLY. No.
Mr. SPECTER. What other wounds, if any, did you sustain?
Governor CONNALLY. A fractured wrist and a wound in the thigh, just
above the knee.
Mr. SPECTER. What thigh?
Governor CONNALLY. Left thigh; just above the knee.
Mr. SPECTER. Where on the wrist were you injured, sir?
Governor CONNALLY. I don't know how you describe it.
Mr. SPECTER. About how many inches up from the wrist joint?
Governor CONNALLY. I would say an inch above the wrist bone, but on
the inner bone of the wrist where the bullet went in here and came out
almost in the center of the wrist on the underside.
Mr. SPECTER. About an inch from the base of the palm?
Governor CONNALLY. About an inch from the base of the palm, a little
less than an inch, three-quarters of an inch.
Mr. SPECTER. Were you conscious of receiving that wound on the wrist at
the time you sustained it?
Governor CONNALLY. No, sir; I was not.
Mr. SPECTER. When did you first know you were wounded in the right
wrist?
Governor CONNALLY. When I came to in the hospital on Saturday, the next
morning, and I looked up and my arm was tied up in a hospital bed, and
I said, "What is wrong with my arm?" And they told me then that I had a
shattered wrist, and that is when I also found out I had a wound in the
thigh.
Mr. SPECTER. Can you describe the nature of the wound in the thigh?
Governor CONNALLY. Well, just a raw, open wound, looked like a fairly
deep penetration.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating about 2 inches?
Governor CONNALLY. No; I would say about an inch, an inch and a quarter
long is all; fairly wide, I would say a quarter of an inch wide, maybe
more, a third of an inch wide, and about an inch and a quarter, an inch
and a half long.
Mr. SPECTER. Were you conscious that you had been wounded on the left
thigh at the time it occurred?
Governor CONNALLY. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you first notice that in the hospital on the following
day also?
Governor CONNALLY. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. In your view, which bullet caused the injury to your
chest, Governor Connally?
Governor CONNALLY. The second one.
Mr. SPECTER. And what is your reason for that conclusion, sir?
Governor CONNALLY. Well, in my judgment, it just couldn't conceivably
have been the first one because I heard the sound of the shot. In
the first place, I don't know anything about the velocity of this
particular bullet, but any rifle has a velocity that exceeds the speed
of sound, and when I heard the sound of that first shot, that bullet
had already reached where I was, or it had reached that far, and after
I heard that shot. I had the time to turn to my right, and start to
turn to my left before I felt anything.
It is not conceivable to me that I could have been hit by the first
bullet, and then I felt the blow from something which was obviously
a bullet, which I assumed was a bullet, and I never heard the second
shot, didn't hear it. I didn't hear but two shots. I think I heard the
first shot and the third shot.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you have any idea as to why you did not hear the second
shot?
Governor CONNALLY. Well, first, again I assume the bullet was traveling
faster than the sound. I was hit by the bullet prior to the time the
sound reached me, and I was in either a state of shock or the impact
was such that the sound didn't even register on me, but I was never
conscious of hearing the second shot at all.
Obviously, at least the major wound that I took in the shoulder through
the chest couldn't have been anything but the second shot. Obviously,
it couldn't have been the third, because when the third shot was fired
I was in a reclining position, and heard it, saw it and the effects of
it, rather--I didn't see it, I saw the effects of it--so it obviously
could not have been the third, and couldn't have been the first, in my
judgment.
Mr. SPECTER. What was the nature of the exit wound on the front side of
your chest, Governor?
Governor CONNALLY. I would say, if the Committee would be interested, I
would just as soon you look at it. Is there any objection to any of you
looking at it?
The CHAIRMAN. No.
Governor CONNALLY. You can tell yourself.
I would say, to describe it for the record, however, that it, the
bullet, went in my back just below the right shoulder blade, at just
about the point that the right arm joins the shoulder, right in that
groove, and exited about 2 inches toward the center of the body from
the right nipple of my chest. I can identify these for you.
The bullet went in here--see if I properly describe that--about the
juncture of the right arm and the shoulder.
Mr. SPECTER. Let the record show that the Governor has removed his
shirt and we can view the wound on the back which he is pointing toward.
Governor CONNALLY. The other two are tubes that were inserted in my
back by the doctors.
Mr. SPECTER. Dr. Shaw is present and he can, perhaps, describe with
identifiable precision where the wounds are.
Dr. SHAW. There is the wound of the drain that has been specifically
described. It was not as large as the scar indicated because in
cleaning up the ragged edges of the wound, some of the skin was excised
in order to make a cleaner incision. This scar----
Mr. SPECTER. Will you describe the location, Doctor, of that wound on
the Governor's back?
Dr. SHAW. Yes. It is on the right shoulder, I will feel it, just
lateral to the shoulder blade, the edge of which is about 2 centimeters
from the wound, and just above and slightly medial to the crease formed
by the axilla or the armpit, the arm against the chest wall.
Mr. SPECTER. What other scars are shown there on the Governor's back?
Dr. SHAW. The other scars are surgically induced. This is the incision
that was made to drain the depth of the subscapular space.
Mr. SPECTER. And there you are indicating an incision at what location,
please?
Dr. SHAW. Just at the angle of the shoulder blade. Here is the angle of
the shoulder blade.
These incisions were never closed by suture. These incisions were left
open and they healed by what we call secondary intention, because
in this case there was what we call a Penrose drain, which is a
soft-rubber drain going up into the depths of the shoulder to allow
any material to drain. This was to prevent infection. The other small
opening was the one in which the tube was placed through the eighth
interspace.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicate its location, please, Doctor, on his back.
Dr. SHAW. This is lower on the right back in what we refer to as the
posterior axillary line, roughly this line.
Mr. SPECTER. There you are drawing a vertical, virtually vertical line?
Dr. SHAW. Yes. It is on the right back, but getting close to the
lateral portion of the chest. This also was a stab wound which was
never sutured. There was a rubber drain through this that led to what
we call a water seal bottle to allow for drainage of the inside of the
chest.
Mr. SPECTER. Indicating again the second medically inflicted wound.
Dr. SHAW. Yes; that is right.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you now, Doctor, describe the location of the wound
of exit on the Governor's chest, please?
Dr. SHAW. Yes. The wound of exit was beneath and medial to the nipple.
Here was this =V= that I was indicating. It is almost opposite that.
At the time of the wound there was a ragged oval hole here at least
5 centimeters in diameter, but the skin edges were excised, and here
again this scar does not look quite as nice as it does during the more
lateral portion of the surgically induced incision, because this skin
was brought together under a little tension, and there is a little
separation there.
Mr. SPECTER. Will you describe the entire scar there, Doctor, for the
record, please?
Dr. SHAW. Yes. The entire surgical incision runs from the anterior
portion of the chest just lateral to the, we call it, the condral arch,
the =V= formed by the condral arch, and then extends laterally below
the nipple, running up, curving up, into the posterior axillary portion
or the posterior lateral wall of the chest.
Mr. SPECTER. What is the total length of the scar, Doctor?
Dr. SHAW. Twenty centimeters, about.
Mr. DULLES. Where was the center of the bullet wound itself in that
scar about?
Dr. SHAW. Here.
Mr. DULLES. There?
Dr. SHAW. Yes. All of the rest of this incision was necessary to gain
access to the depths of the wound for the debridement, for removing all
of the destroyed tissue because of the passage of the bullet.
Mr. DULLES. Would you give us in your hand the area of declination from
the entry to the----
Dr. SHAW. This way.
Mr. DULLES. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Can you estimate that angle for us, Doctor?
Dr. SHAW. We are talking about the angle now, of course, with the
horizontal, and I would say--you don't have a caliper there, do you?
Dr. GREGORY. Yes.
Dr. SHAW. I was going to guess somewhere between 25° and 30°.
Mr. DULLES. Sorry to ask these questions.
Governor CONNALLY. That is fine. I think it is an excellent question.
Dr. SHAW. Well, this puts it right at 25°.
Mr. SPECTER. That is the angle then of elevation as you are measuring
it?
Dr. SHAW. Measuring from back to front, it is the elevation of the
posterior wound over the anterior wound.
The CHAIRMAN. The course being downward back to front?
Dr. SHAW. Yes.
Governor CONNALLY. Back to front.
The CHAIRMAN. Yes.
Dr. SHAW. At the time of the initial examination, as I described, this
portion of the Governor's chest was mobile, it was moving in and out
because of the softening of the chest, and that was the reason I didn't
want the skin incision to be directly over that, because to get better
healing it is better to have a firm pad of tissue rather than having
the incision directly over the softened area.
Mr. DULLES. Doctor, would the angle be the same if the Governor were
seated now the way he was in the chair?
Dr. SHAW. That is a good question. Of course, we don't know exactly
whether he was back or tipped forward. But I don't think there is
going to be much difference.
Mr. DULLES. Were you seated in about that way, Governor?
Governor CONNALLY. Mr. Dulles, I would say I was in about this position
when I was hit, with my face approximately looking toward you, 20° off
of center.
Dr. SHAW. Yes; I got 27°. That didn't make much difference.
Mr. SPECTER. Is that reading taken then while the Governor is in a
seated position, Doctor?
Dr. SHAW. Yes, seated; yes.
Representative BOGGS. May I ask a question? How would his hand have
been under those circumstances, Doctor, for the bullet to hit his wrist?
Dr. GREGORY. I think it fits very well, really, remembering at the
other end the trajectory is right here, and there would be no problem
to pose his hands in that fashion, and if you will note, you can see
it best from over here really, because you did see that the point
of entry, and you can visualize his thigh, there is no problem to
visualize the trajectory.
Mr. DULLES. Would you be naturally holding your hand in that position?
Dr. GREGORY. It could be any place.
Governor CONNALLY. It could be anywhere on that line, Mr. Dulles.
Mr. Chief Justice, you see this is the leg.
Dr. SHAW. Of course, the wound is much smaller than this.
Mr. SPECTER. Let the record show the Governor has displayed the left
thigh showing the scar caused by the entry of the missile in the left
thigh.
Dr. Gregory, will you describe the locale of that?
Dr. GREGORY. Yes. This scar, excisional scar, is a better term, if I
may just interject that----
Mr. SPECTER. Please do.
Dr. GREGORY. The excisional scar to the Governor's thigh is located at
a point approximately 10 or 12 centimeters above the adductor tubercule
of the femur, placing it at the juncture of the middle and distal third
of his thigh.
Mr. SPECTER. In lay language, Doctor, about how far is that up from the
knee area?
Dr. GREGORY. Five inches, 6 inches.
Mr. SPECTER. Governor Connally, can you recreate the position that you
were sitting in in the automobile, as best you can recollect, at the
time you think you were struck?
Governor CONNALLY. I think, having turned to look over my right
shoulder, then revolving to look over my left shoulder, I threw my
right wrist over on my left leg.
Mr. SPECTER. And in the position you are seated now, with your right
wrist on your left leg, with your little finger being an inch or two
from your knee?
Governor CONNALLY. From the knee.
Mr. SPECTER. And, Dr. Gregory, would that be in approximate alignment
which has been characterized on Commission Exhibit----
Dr. GREGORY. I think it fits reasonably well; yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. In a moment here I can get that exhibit.
Mr. DULLES. May I ask a question in the meantime?
Governor CONNALLY. Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES. You turned to the right, as I recall your testimony,
because you heard the sound coming from the right?
Governor CONNALLY. Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES. How did you happen to turn then to the left, do you
remember why that was?
Governor CONNALLY. Yes, sir; I know exactly. I turned to the right both
to see, because it was an instinctive movement, because that is where
the sound came from, but even more important, I immediately thought it
was a rifleshot, I immediately thought of an assassination attempt,
and I turned to see if I could see the President, to see if he was all
right. Failing to see him over my right shoulder, I turned to look over
my left shoulder.
Mr. DULLES. I see.
Governor CONNALLY. Into the back seat, and I never completed that turn.
I got no more than substantially looking forward, a little bit to the
left of forward, when I got hit.
Representative BOGGS. May I ask one of the doctors a question? What is
the incidence of recovery from a wound of this type?
Dr. GREGORY. I will defer the answer to Dr. Shaw. From the wrist,
excellent so far as recovery is concerned. Functionally, recovery is
going to be good, too, and Dr. Shaw can take on the other one.
Dr. SHAW. We never had any doubt about the Governor's recovery. We knew
what we had to do and we felt he could recover. I think I indicated
that to Mrs. Connally.
Governor CONNALLY. As soon as you got into the chest and found out what
it was.
Representative BOGGS. But, there was a very serious wound, was there
not, Doctor?
Dr. SHAW. Yes. It was both a shocking and painful wound, and the
effects of the wound, the immediate effects of the wound, were very
dangerous as far as Governor Connally was concerned, because he had
what we call a sucking wound of the chest. This would not allow him to
breathe. I think instinctively what happened, while he was riding in
the car on the way to the hospital, he probably had his arm across, and
he may have instinctively closed that sucking area to some extent. But
they had to immediately put an occlusive dressing on it as soon as he
got inside to keep him from sucking air in and out of the right chest.
Representative BOGGS. Had hospitalization been delayed for about
another half hour or so----
Dr. SHAW. That is speculation, but I don't think he could have
maintained breathing, sufficient breathing, for a half hour with that
type of wound. It is a little speculation. It would depend on how
well he could protect himself. We have had instances where by putting
their jackets around them like this, they could occlude this, and go
for a considerable period of time. Airmen during the war instinctively
protected themselves in this way.
Representative BOGGS. You have no doubt about his physical ability to
serve as Governor?